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Kramer in trouble again

AllWeatherFan said:
So. You boys think Kramer's approach with this player is going to pay dividends and turn him into a better player than he was before.

Okay.

not at all. my guess is at that moment the point wasn't to turn him into a better player....

couldn't you say that about ANYTHING? do you think this post of yours i'm responding to is paying dividends and making me a better person? that was your intent right? ;)
 
The majority of people on here seem to be supporting an ex-bobcat's actions. If anything, one would expect the bias to skew in the other direction. That alone should tell you something, AWF.

"If I didn't do anything, I would look like a punk." As opposed to how you look now, kid? Obviously, he is a disrespectful person both to his coaches and teammates. Admittedly, I would have just dismissed/suspended/benched the kid for his arrogance and poor attitude towards another team member (depending on occurrence). But sometimes you can't reason with an arrogant and disrespectful person and maybe the shove will be a wake up call to him.

It's scary thinking that there are people out there that think this little shove is too extreme an abusive for an appointed disciplinarian and leader to do. It's why we have so many spoiled, entitled kids in this nation today. They would rather concede all power to a kid throwing a tantrum than to spank them on their bum (where it might sting, but isn't going to do any damage - I don't condone bodily beatings, BTW).

Here's a question: if Graves had called his girlfriend fat and not good enough for him (a likely scenario based off his attitude and lack of humility) and she slapped him on the face (doing more damage than Kramer because it was bare skin contact), would you be enraged over the girl's actions?
 
ilovethecats said:
do you think this post of yours i'm responding to is paying dividends and making me a better person? that was your intent right? ;)

Why, yes. Yes I do. I can see the halo growing already.
 
DoubleNicks said:
Here's a question: if Graves had called his girlfriend fat and not good enough for him (a likely scenario based off his attitude and lack of humility) and she slapped him on the face (doing more damage than Kramer because it was bare skin contact), would you be enraged over the girl's actions?

"Enraged?" LOL!
 
DoubleNicks said:
The majority of people on here seem to be supporting an ex-bobcat's actions. If anything, one would expect the bias to skew in the other direction. That alone should tell you something, AWF.

"If I didn't do anything, I would look like a punk." As opposed to how you look now, kid? Obviously, he is a disrespectful person both to his coaches and teammates. Admittedly, I would have just dismissed/suspended/benched the kid for his arrogance and poor attitude towards another team member (depending on occurrence). But sometimes you can't reason with an arrogant and disrespectful person and maybe the shove will be a wake up call to him.

It's scary thinking that there are people out there that think this little shove is too extreme an abusive for an appointed disciplinarian and leader to do. It's why we have so many spoiled, entitled kids in this nation today. They would rather concede all power to a kid throwing a tantrum than to spank them on their bum (where it might sting, but isn't going to do any damage - I don't condone bodily beatings, BTW).

Here's a question: if Graves had called his girlfriend fat and not good enough for him (a likely scenario based off his attitude and lack of humility) and she slapped him on the face (doing more damage than Kramer because it was bare skin contact), would you be enraged over the girl's actions?

Your scenario is a poor analogy. If Graves calls his girlfriend fat? Is he an authority figure here who holds a college scholarship above her head? Did he push her to the ground when he called her fat? Could graves have slapped Kramer back in the real scenario with no consequences? You seem to miss the hierarchy that exists on a college football team between scholarship athletes and a coach. If this kid was a problem, then Kramer should have used other disciplinary measures to assist him with changing his behavior. Instead he went physical and chose to degrade the kid in front of his teammates and the other coaches. How is that working out for him and ISU. This is leadership and motivation. Humans have brains - he should have tried to use his.
 
Copper Griz said:
AllWeatherFan said:
All you tough guys who whine about player pussification and extoll coaching abuse should remember one thing: that approach just doesn't work.


:clap: :clap: Kramer is a bully and he should not be coaching. Call it the pussification of America or whatever. Bottom line is this type of behavior is #1 unacceptable and #2 does not produce results. I for one am tired of coaches thinking they can treat kids like crap, be bullies, and get away with abusive behavior. You don't see this type of behavior in the workplace and for good reason. Lastly, I have always found bullies to really be big pussies. Many of them like to band together, because they know they will get their a$$ handed to them if they have to go one on one. Bullies are COWARDS.
Let's follow your "logic." Kramer is a bully, therefore a coward. So you'd be willing walk up to him (alone) and call him a "really big pussy," right?
 
AllWeatherFan said:
All you tough guys who whine about player pussification and extoll coaching abuse should remember one thing: that approach just doesn't work.
Really? Ask any ASU fan how it worked for so many years for Frank Kush. Check his record. Then they moved to the left-leaning PAC....
 
You can see Graves take some small quick steps back under control. He then just gave in and fell back smoothly. It was not a crashing fall. It looked just like a stumble you would see a couple of times in any practice. Did not see his head snap around at all.

We do not want Kramer. His firing at msu was handled very poorly. But don't forget this guy throws all his players under the bus just to hear his own voice. I still remember him always praising an rb from CO (first name Ryan?) only to crap all over him in an interview on the field. Not a dependable "I got your back" kind of guy.
 
kemajic said:
Copper Griz said:
AllWeatherFan said:
All you tough guys who whine about player pussification and extoll coaching abuse should remember one thing: that approach just doesn't work.


:clap: :clap: Kramer is a bully and he should not be coaching. Call it the pussification of America or whatever. Bottom line is this type of behavior is #1 unacceptable and #2 does not produce results. I for one am tired of coaches thinking they can treat kids like crap, be bullies, and get away with abusive behavior. You don't see this type of behavior in the workplace and for good reason. Lastly, I have always found bullies to really be big pussies. Many of them like to band together, because they know they will get their a$$ handed to them if they have to go one on one. Bullies are COWARDS.
Let follow your "logic." Kramer is a bully, therefore a coward. So you'd be willing walk up to him (alone) and call him a "really big pussy," right?[/quote

So if I say yes on an anonymous message board I am truly credible and a man right? I say no, and I am a pussy. Now there is logic for you. Great question.
 
Copper Griz said:
kemajic said:
Copper Griz said:
Kramer is a bully and he should not be coaching. Call it the pussification of America or whatever. Bottom line is this type of behavior is #1 unacceptable and #2 does not produce results. I for one am tired of coaches thinking they can treat kids like crap, be bullies, and get away with abusive behavior. You don't see this type of behavior in the workplace and for good reason. Lastly, I have always found bullies to really be big pussies. Many of them like to band together, because they know they will get their a$$ handed to them if they have to go one on one. Bullies are COWARDS.
Let's follow your "logic." Kramer is a bully, therefore a coward. So you'd be willing walk up to him (alone) and call him a "really big pussy," right?
So if I say yes on an anonymous message board I am truly credible and a man right? I say no, and I am a pussy. Now there is logic for you. Great question.
It was a good enough question to expose your flawed logic. Whether Mike is a bully or not, I will guarantee that he is not a pussy.
 
Copper Griz said:
You seem to miss the hierarchy that exists on a college football team between scholarship athletes and a coach. If this kid was a problem, then Kramer should have used other disciplinary measures to assist him with changing his behavior. Instead he went physical and chose to degrade the kid in front of his teammates and the other coaches. How is that working out for him and ISU. This is leadership and motivation. Humans have brains - he should have tried to use his.


Reminds me of the time I was but casually walking around a neighborhood one day while what comes past me is a group of grade school kids following around a female teacher and a kid going back home, evidently, with blood streaming from his ear. Must not of been any older than the fourth grade students of a class in dismay of what apparently was a classroom discipline, a slap to the face that may have cupped over the ear causing a rupture of the eardrum, of an unruly student; mayhaps. It didn't look good, for either party. Corporeal punishment is what it's worth, I guess. From bad to worse, for all involved.
 
kemajic said:
It was a good enough question to expose your flawed logic. Whether Mike is a bully or not, I will guarantee that he is not a pussy.

he is both a bobcat and a bengal, so you may be right. he is a double pussy!
 
kemajic said:
AllWeatherFan said:
All you tough guys who whine about player pussification and extoll coaching abuse should remember one thing: that approach just doesn't work.
Really? Ask any ASU fan how it worked for so many years for Frank Kush. Check his record. Then they moved to the left-leaning PAC....

Oh yeah, it worked great until they fired him...33 years ago.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
kemajic said:
So you'd be willing walk up to him (alone) and call him a "really big pussy," right?

Seriously? That's the test for you?


Trial by combat. Just like in the good o' days.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtbOmpTnyOc[/youtube]

That's why they invented guns.
 
My point wasn't that shoving the player to the ground would make him a better player but it might get the point across that he needs to listen or whatever point the coach was trying to get across and by doing that he MIGHT have a chance to improve. And if anyone is trying to equate a slap to a child's head with shoving a football player to the ground then that is beyond absurd. And implying it is "corporal punishment" is even yet more absurd. What ever happened to the notion of learning by overcoming adversity? If this had happened to me as a young man (and yes anyone old enough to be handed a rifle to fight in a war is a man) it might have bothered me some but it also would have been motivation to figure how to not let it happen again. We coddle people (even adults) so much these days that they have come to expect everything for nothing. This society is doomed.
 
Back in the day.... :lol:
Our football coach would grab our face mask with one hand and whip our heads around to get our attention, while screaming at you. Once when the center failed to snap the ball on the first count, while the rest of the team started the play, the coach walked over and kicked the center squarely in the ass, so hard that the center fell on his face. Ahhh...the good old days :cry:

So I guess by today's standards said coach would be at Deerlodge for multiple life sentences, along with lawsuits, etc. ?

Bravo to Kramer for getting that kid's attention, and setting an example in front the team. :clap: Anything involving any type of controversy is today's basis for something the media considers newsworthiness. Ridiculous.
 
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