Just A Question

[grizpsych]

Since I am unfamiliar with NCAA rules on this topic, I would like to throw a question out there, and perhaps a poster who knows the rules on this will provide some insight.

I have always wondered why football programs don't dedicate an individual to spend 100% of his time recruiting. This person would have zero actual coaching responsibilities, but would spend his time visiting high schools, watching high school games, developing strong relationships with high school coaches. If hiring such a person would not violate any NCAA rules, I believe he would be an invaluable asset to recruiting great talent. His value to the program would greatly exceed that of being a position coach (such as a CB coach, or a LB coach, etc.)

I believe that the elite FCS programs like NDSU and SDSU are much better at evaluating, and recruiting high school talent than our current staff is. And I have been trying to think of a way that we could improve our recruiting.

So, if anyone has any info on and NCAA rules that be violated by implementing such a dedicated recruiting individual, please share it here.

What are your thought on this idea?

Here is a link to the NCAA football recruiting rules and schedule. https://www.ncsasports.org/football/recruiting-rules-calendar

 

[uofmman1122]

Most FBS staffs have multiple people doing this. Alabama has 3 directors of recruiting, and probably several analysts whose job is strictly that. The prohibitive factor for us is cost, AFAIK.

Maybe we should stop spending so much money on facilities, and spend more on recruiting the right players to utilize those facilities

I don't think that's the issue here, but I agree with you that it's insane that our recruiting budget is much smaller than MSU's.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

He’s a younger guy. Creates most of the social media for the recruits. We don’t have a huge recruiting budget so I don’t think he travels a ton. Cats have a much larger recruiting budget, not sure why. He has a Twitter and is always being tagged by recruits. He’s the one that shares the Shark emoji when we get a new commit. I don’t know him personally so can’t comment on him. I’m guessing he has to follow Bobby’s rules on recruiting.

If the Cats have a much larger recruiting budget, that is a huge problem IMO. As we sit here and over-analyze why we can't RTD, and now know that our recruiting budget is much less than our in-state rival, the answer just might be this.

It should be obvious that the Cats are out-recruiting us, especially out of state. It is expensive to recruit out of state, and if we are not competitive here because of budget limitations, that is a problem. With the size of our football in-coming revenue compared to other Big Sky schools, we should have the largest recruiting budget in the conference. My question is why we don't?

State funding formula. Sheila Stearns designed the present formula. Also, the MSU area has attracted many folks with sizeable bank accounts (I know, most just get off the plane in Belgrade and drive up to their cabin in Big Sky or Moonlight Basin) and that has really benefitted MSU.

Several flaws from an accounting perspective in the present formula and one everybody in the state ought to closely examine is the retention aspect tied to the graduation rate. The biggest issue for University Schools is in Butte. Montana Tech has a very rigorous curricula and the only way around the retention numbers will be to water down their offerings and you know that's not going to happen.

MSU-Northern offers degrees in the trades such as diesel mechanics? MSU-Billings has many issues yet it's not the same type as with Tech. UM-Western just keeps on doing what they've always done.

 

[mthoopsfan]

He’s a younger guy. Creates most of the social media for the recruits. We don’t have a huge recruiting budget so I don’t think he travels a ton. Cats have a much larger recruiting budget, not sure why. He has a Twitter and is always being tagged by recruits. He’s the one that shares the Shark emoji when we get a new commit. I don’t know him personally so can’t comment on him. I’m guessing he has to follow Bobby’s rules on recruiting.

Well I agree with Rosey in one respect. Seems like it’d be a much better use of some $$ than throwing money at a washed up “analyst” like Phenice.

Do you know what Phenicie does?

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Since I am unfamiliar with NCAA rules on this topic, I would like to throw a question out there, and perhaps a poster who knows the rules on this will provide some insight.

I have always wondered why football programs don't dedicate an individual to spend 100% of his time recruiting. This person would have zero actual coaching responsibilities, but would spend his time visiting high schools, watching high school games, developing strong relationships with high school coaches. If hiring such a person would not violate any NCAA rules, I believe he would be an invaluable asset to recruiting great talent. His value to the program would greatly exceed that of being a position coach (such as a CB coach, or a LB coach, etc.)

I believe that the elite FCS programs like NDSU and SDSU are much better at evaluating, and recruiting high school talent than our current staff is. And I have been trying to think of a way that we could improve our recruiting.

So, if anyone has any info on and NCAA rules that be violated by implementing such a dedicated recruiting individual, please share it here.

What are your thought on this idea?

Here is a link to the NCAA football recruiting rules and schedule. https://www.ncsasports.org/football/recruiting-rules-calendar

I am familiar with the recruiting limitations for recruiting high school kids. But my point to having a full-time recruiter is that he could spend the time in which contact with players is restricted, to develop relationships with FBS coaching staffs, not with players. With the portal being so important now, it would pay dividends to have relationships with as many FBS head & assistant coaches as possible, so that we might be able to get a recruiting advantage on signing FBS portal players.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Well I agree with Rosey in one respect. Seems like it’d be a much better use of some $$ than throwing money at a washed up “analyst” like Phenice.

Do you know what Phenicie does?

Carries Bobby's fishing equipment to the stream for him? Manages the lake house invitation list?

 

[RoseyMustGo]

If the Cats have a much larger recruiting budget, that is a huge problem IMO. As we sit here and over-analyze why we can't RTD, and now know that our recruiting budget is much less than our in-state rival, the answer just might be this.

It should be obvious that the Cats are out-recruiting us, especially out of state. It is expensive to recruit out of state, and if we are not competitive here because of budget limitations, that is a problem. With the size of our football in-coming revenue compared to other Big Sky schools, we should have the largest recruiting budget in the conference. My question is why we don't?

State funding formula. Sheila Stearns designed the present formula. Also, the MSU area has attracted many folks with sizeable bank accounts (I know, most just get off the plane in Belgrade and drive up to their cabin in Big Sky or Moonlight Basin) and that has really benefitted MSU.

Several flaws from an accounting perspective in the present formula and one everybody in the state ought to closely examine is the retention aspect tied to the graduation rate. The biggest issue for University Schools is in Butte. Montana Tech has a very rigorous curricula and the only way around the retention numbers will be to water down their offerings and you know that's not going to happen.

MSU-Northern offers degrees in the trades such as diesel mechanics? MSU-Billings has many issues yet it's not the same type as with Tech. UM-Western just keeps on doing what they've always done.

Let me get this straight. Sheila Sterns dictates how much money UM can spend on recruiting? How can this be? If so, how can we change this?

 

[Triwest]

State funding formula. Sheila Stearns designed the present formula. Also, the MSU area has attracted many folks with sizeable bank accounts (I know, most just get off the plane in Belgrade and drive up to their cabin in Big Sky or Moonlight Basin) and that has really benefitted MSU.

Several flaws from an accounting perspective in the present formula and one everybody in the state ought to closely examine is the retention aspect tied to the graduation rate. The biggest issue for University Schools is in Butte. Montana Tech has a very rigorous curricula and the only way around the retention numbers will be to water down their offerings and you know that's not going to happen.


MSU-Northern offers degrees in the trades such as diesel mechanics? MSU-Billings has many issues yet it's not the same type as with Tech. UM-Western just keeps on doing what they've always done.

Let me get this straight. Sheila Sterns dictates how much money UM can spend on recruiting? How can this be? If so, how can we change this?

Sheila Sterns is retired. Not currently involved and has not been commissioner of higher education for years. Formula may be that old?

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

State funding formula. Sheila Stearns designed the present formula. Also, the MSU area has attracted many folks with sizeable bank accounts (I know, most just get off the plane in Belgrade and drive up to their cabin in Big Sky or Moonlight Basin) and that has really benefitted MSU.

Several flaws from an accounting perspective in the present formula and one everybody in the state ought to closely examine is the retention aspect tied to the graduation rate. The biggest issue for University Schools is in Butte. Montana Tech has a very rigorous curricula and the only way around the retention numbers will be to water down their offerings and you know that's not going to happen.

MSU-Northern offers degrees in the trades such as diesel mechanics? MSU-Billings has many issues yet it's not the same type as with Tech. UM-Western just keeps on doing what they've always done.

Let me get this straight. Sheila Sterns dictates how much money UM can spend on recruiting? How can this be? If so, how can we change this?

Virtually the entire athletic budget is state funding. Perhaps you ought to get familiarized with governmental accounting? Both U of M and MSU have outstanding business schools. Take a few classes and possibly get reasonably proficient in funding formulas before entering into that area of great concern.

Simply put, more students equal more money. More students returning and matriculation equals even more money. Lose students and lose funding. See how simple that is?

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Let me get this straight. Sheila Sterns dictates how much money UM can spend on recruiting? How can this be? If so, how can we change this?

Virtually the entire athletic budget is state funding. Perhaps you ought to get familiarized with governmental accounting? Both U of M and MSU have outstanding business schools. Take a few classes and possibly get reasonably proficient in funding formulas before entering into that area of great concern.

Simply put, more students equal more money. More students returning and matriculation equals even more money. Lose students and lose funding. See how simple that is?

I don't need to attend business school, thank you. I know plenty about business. You didn't answer my question. I understand that total funding amounts are set by her. What does that have to do with taking that money, and allocating more of it to recruiting? Isn't that Haslam's job to set budgets? If we need more booster donations to beef-up the recruiting budget, we can always go to the big shot booster, mthoopsfan, to increase his stipend.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Virtually the entire athletic budget is state funding. Perhaps you ought to get familiarized with governmental accounting? Both U of M and MSU have outstanding business schools. Take a few classes and possibly get reasonably proficient in funding formulas before entering into that area of great concern.

Simply put, more students equal more money. More students returning and matriculation equals even more money. Lose students and lose funding. See how simple that is?

I don't need to attend business school, thank you. I know plenty about business. You didn't answer my question. I understand that total funding amounts are set by her. What does that have to do with taking that money, and allocating more of it to recruiting? Isn't that Haslam's job to set budgets? If we need more booster donations to beef-up the recruiting budget, we can always go to the big shot booster, mthoopsfan, to increase his stipend.

Stearns has not been the commissioner of Higher Education since 2010 or 2011. The funding formula needs to be rewritten. I suggest, again, governmental accounting. Just a suggestion. Also, Haslam's budget is contingent upon what the University System (the three schools being UM, Tech and Western) of the Montana University System receives from the state. The Montana STATE schools, MSU, Northern and Eastern, have more students; therefore, they receive more money. Very easy to comprehend.

Did you know the Billings Public schools get more state money than Wibaux? Why do you suppose that would be?

 

[Triwest]

Virtually the entire athletic budget is state funding. Perhaps you ought to get familiarized with governmental accounting? Both U of M and MSU have outstanding business schools. Take a few classes and possibly get reasonably proficient in funding formulas before entering into that area of great concern.

Simply put, more students equal more money. More students returning and matriculation equals even more money. Lose students and lose funding. See how simple that is?

I don't need to attend business school, thank you. I know plenty about business. You didn't answer my question. I understand that total funding amounts are set by her. What does that have to do with taking that money, and allocating more of it to recruiting? Isn't that Haslam's job to set budgets? If we need more booster donations to beef-up the recruiting budget, we can always go to the big shot booster, mthoopsfan, to increase his stipend.

I pointed ot earlier Sheila has not been the Commissioner of Higher Education since 2011 nor the president of U of Montana since 2018. She is not a current figure in funding. I am sure inappropriate recruiting of players before entering portal does take place but no contact with players on other teams is supposed to occur before portal window. New enforcement regulation to come.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I don't need to attend business school, thank you. I know plenty about business. You didn't answer my question. I understand that total funding amounts are set by her. What does that have to do with taking that money, and allocating more of it to recruiting? Isn't that Haslam's job to set budgets? If we need more booster donations to beef-up the recruiting budget, we can always go to the big shot booster, mthoopsfan, to increase his stipend.

I pointed ot earlier Sheila has not been the Commissioner of Higher Education since 2011 nor the president of U of Montana since 2018. She is not a current figure in funding. I am sure inappropriate recruiting of players before entering portal does take place but no contact with players on other teams is supposed to occur before portal window. New enforcement regulation to come.

Thanks for helping. Her formula that factors in both retention and matriculation for the funding formula ought to be tweaked I believe everyone is in agreement.

Edit: I've pointed out numerous times MSU's enrollment is 56% nonresident students. That is a significant kicker in money.

 

[Triwest]

I pointed ot earlier Sheila has not been the Commissioner of Higher Education since 2011 nor the president of U of Montana since 2018. She is not a current figure in funding. I am sure inappropriate recruiting of players before entering portal does take place but no contact with players on other teams is supposed to occur before portal window. New enforcement regulation to come.

Thanks for helping. Her formula that factors in both retention and matriculation for the funding formula ought to be tweaked I believe everyone is in agreement.

:thumb:

 

[mthoopsfan]

Here is a link to the NCAA football recruiting rules and schedule. https://www.ncsasports.org/football/recruiting-rules-calendar

I am familiar with the recruiting limitations for recruiting high school kids. But my point to having a full-time recruiter is that he could spend the time in which contact with players is restricted, to develop relationships with FBS coaching staffs, not with players. With the portal being so important now, it would pay dividends to have relationships with as many FBS head & assistant coaches as possible, so that we might be able to get a recruiting advantage on signing FBS portal players.

I don't think much of your idea. Kids don't want to meet recruiters; they want to meet coaches. Same with high school coaches; they want to meet coaches. Veteran football coaches like Bobby and his staff have zillions of contacts with other coaches and FBS staffs. I can't imagine there are any coaching staffs in America where someone on Bobby's staff doesn't know someone.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Whatever. Knowing someone is not the same as building strong current relationships with them. Again, I am not advocating having ANY contact with players during the non-contact periods. I am advocating this recruiting guy to be sort of a "scout". The NFL teams hire scouts to evaluate college talent. Why can't we hire one to evaluate high school talent, then send the coaches to actively recruit that player after they have been scouted?

It has already been pointed out that Alabama has three people who does this exact thing. Just found out that every SEC team has at least two of them. Ohio State also has three of them. These guys identify the prospects, and then the coaches begin recruiting them. Coaches have way too many other responsibilities to effectively identify all of the available players who they might want to recruit.

So, mthoopsfan is wrong again, as usual.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Let me get this straight. Sheila Sterns dictates how much money UM can spend on recruiting? How can this be? If so, how can we change this?

Virtually the entire athletic budget is state funding. Perhaps you ought to get familiarized with governmental accounting? Both U of M and MSU have outstanding business schools. Take a few classes and possibly get reasonably proficient in funding formulas before entering into that area of great concern.

Simply put, more students equal more money. More students returning and matriculation equals even more money. Lose students and lose funding. See how simple that is?

I give up. I could care less about the issue of funding the UM athletic programs from state funds. I have known all about that for years. Why is it so difficult to understand my question as to why Haslam can not change the recruiting allocation by diverting funding from another issuance, or by asking boosters to provide donations to be used for recruiting? Is it illegal for some reason to raise athletic money to be used for recruiting?We raised private donations to build the athletic center. What's the difference?

 

[mthoopsfan]

Whatever. Knowing someone is not the same as building strong current relationships with them. Again, I am not advocating having ANY contact with players during the non-contact periods. I am advocating this recruiting guy to be sort of a "scout". The NFL teams hire scouts to evaluate college talent. Why can't we hire one to evaluate high school talent, then send the coaches to actively recruit that player after they have been scouted?

It has already been pointed out that Alabama has three people who does this exact thing. Just found out that every SEC team has at least two of them. Ohio State also has three of them. These guys identify the prospects, and then the coaches begin recruiting them. Coaches have way too many other responsibilities to effectively identify all of the available players who they might want to recruit.

So, mthoopsfan is wrong again, as usual.

Your idea is dumb. So are you.

 

[SaskGriz]

Take a breath and think about why the above poster might be posting.

 

[indiancoyote]

Whatever. Knowing someone is not the same as building strong current relationships with them. Again, I am not advocating having ANY contact with players during the non-contact periods. I am advocating this recruiting guy to be sort of a "scout". The NFL teams hire scouts to evaluate college talent. Why can't we hire one to evaluate high school talent, then send the coaches to actively recruit that player after they have been scouted?

It has already been pointed out that Alabama has three people who does this exact thing. Just found out that every SEC team has at least two of them. Ohio State also has three of them. These guys identify the prospects, and then the coaches begin recruiting them. Coaches have way too many other responsibilities to effectively identify all of the available players who they might want to recruit.

So, mthoopsfan is wrong again, as usual.

Your idea is dumb. So are you.

mthoopsfan is like Republicans...lots of losing because of what comes out of their mouths.