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Joining the Mountain West would run an $8MM - $9MM annual deficit - can we overcome that?

Thank you, that was an excellent write up. I really have enjoyed the FCS play offs the last several years. And I have come around to many on here's thinking the bowls, especially the lower tier bowls suck.

I do think the G6 will eventually go the play off route and I hope they do. I have heard the LA Bowl and bowl in Detroit (whatever it is called now) are going away. (Praying the Potato Bowl is next) I hope more go away, and a playoff is added for G6.

I have a feeling the P4 won't be giving up spots to the G6 much longer with teams like Notre Dame being left out. Not saying UM and MSU should or should not change to FBS, but I do hope if there is a separation of G6 getting there own playoff, I hope the Montana schools are part of it. There is great football being played in Montana, and it is great when it is presented for everyone in the nation to see.
 
Griz til I die said:
There's not really anywhere good for them to practice nearby. IDK that Snowbowl offers quite the terrain they would need. It's awfully steep and nowhere near as big as like Bridger or Big Sky. I think it would be really cool to have a ski team but not sure it's feasible for us.
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Yeah the Snowbowl is the only place that would be feasible near us. I’m not sure what the requirements are for a ski area to host an NCAA team. Snowbowl is below average for western resorts but is still better than the vast majority of ski areas out east.
 
Brent that’s a great write up and info. I saw an article yesterday about NDSU move and need to do so. It basically indicates that the Power 4 will break away and that the group conferences will form their own payoffs. I think Kirk Herbstreet was the one being interviewed. He says teams like NDSU are trying to position themselves prior to this breakaway happening to better position themselves for success.
I honestly hope UM and MSU can push for this move to better position themselves. I think the longer we wait the more difficult it will be to happen.
I also don’t even know what might come of the payout games. With the power conferences approve OOC games with the Group conferences as warm ups?
I just don’t think we are in a position to just sit on our hands to see what flushes out. I think if we follow that approach we will get left behind and the remaining FCS becomes a DIV II program.UM and MSU have invested way way to much for that to happen.
 
BWahlberg said:
I think a combined UM / MSU move up plan could get some traction in the legislature especially if the goal would be to boost enrollment but yeah current statewide leadership is focusing mostly on cuts - not more outgoing funds.

Student fees they could get done but the scale of what schools like Sacramento can do vs what Montana can do makes it tough to really move the needle alone.
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Yeah, I keep thinking about the student athletic fees.
I know people have big opinions on it, but if they could raise it by $800, the AD would get about $6.4 million more assuming undergrad enrollment of 8,000.

JMU's athletic fees are legendary, but they aren't exactly alone based on quick research. The trend seems to be increasing fees in the NIL era as well.

I think the huge hurdle will always be state leadership and shortsightedness (as is often the case with all positions of leadership everywhere).
 
Griz til I die said:
How long until UNLV sees all the increased competition and better path to the CFP in the PAC and decides to bolt? The MWC was able to make a sweetheart deal with them to keep them in the boat for now, but eventually I'd have to think they'll start looking over their shoulder and wondering if there's a better way. Same with Air Force too.
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I think UNVL made a mistake not moving to the PAC. Air Force is more destined for the American to join Army/Navy
 
CDAGRIZ said:
Yeah, I keep thinking about the student athletic fees.
I know people have big opinions on it, but if they could raise it by $800, the AD would get about $6.4 million more assuming undergrad enrollment of 8,000.

JMU's athletic fees are legendary, but they aren't exactly alone based on quick research. The trend seems to be increasing fees in the NIL era as well.

I think the huge hurdle will always be state leadership and shortsightedness (as is often the case with all positions of leadership everywhere).
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I think the short-sightedness is mainly with the UM move up crowd.
 
mthoopsfan said:
I think the short-sightedness is mainly with the UM move up crowd.
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Could be. I don't have the wisdom to really know what's coming. But we can't deny that the top FCS programs seem to be crunching numbers more in recent years. Maybe they are all misguided, and the FCS will be stronger than ever when the dust settles.

Disclaimer: This is all obviously excluding whatever wacky shit SAC thinks it's doing.
 
BWahlberg said:
Took a stab at what Montana would need to do to move up, posted it the other day, and already others have pointed out that my numbers on expenses might be low as I ran a scenario of Montana keeping all other sports in the Big Sky, or maybe moving to the Summit or WAC - which might not be possible. For a football only move the costs associated with the move up in terms of travel, salaries, staff, scholarships, and adding 2 or 3 more sports to meet the FBS requirement.

What a move up would hinge on would be:

- Student athletic fees seeing a large increase
- Fans paying more for tickets + more focus on premium pricing
- State financial support financially and also raising the hard cap of $1.5MM in revenue share that UM/MSU are held to
- 2 high dollar road guarantee games per year for the first 5 years (so less home games)
- Some big donor help for the first year hit of nearly $16MM

Link here: Took a look at the costs here and what it might take to join the Mountain West
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Great writeup. I find it interesting that these conferences want to expand, then lay out expected performance levels, and then hamstring the new member financially to the point where they gotta dig so fucking deep that it makes it almost impossible.

Quite a business model.
 
BWahlberg said:
Took a stab at what Montana would need to do to move up, posted it the other day, and already others have pointed out that my numbers on expenses might be low as I ran a scenario of Montana keeping all other sports in the Big Sky, or maybe moving to the Summit or WAC - which might not be possible. For a football only move the costs associated with the move up in terms of travel, salaries, staff, scholarships, and adding 2 or 3 more sports to meet the FBS requirement.

What a move up would hinge on would be:

- Student athletic fees seeing a large increase
- Fans paying more for tickets + more focus on premium pricing
- State financial support financially and also raising the hard cap of $1.5MM in revenue share that UM/MSU are held to
- 2 high dollar road guarantee games per year for the first 5 years (so less home games)
- Some big donor help for the first year hit of nearly $16MM

Link here: Took a look at the costs here and what it might take to join the Mountain West
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An additional revenue source that gets overlooked, but it is an unknown, is corporate sponsorships. I read an article recently where the Wyoming AD said they can charge more for corporate sponsorships in the MW then the Montana Schools can in the Big Sky. He didn't include an amount.
 
HookedonGriz said:
I had a conversation with Jim O’Day not too long ago. You are correct. The Griz would have to add an additional female sport. I was racking my brain on what that could be since we already have softball and soccer and all the other big sports. Beach volleyball would be a pretty good idea.
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Griz now have Flag football they could very easily make it a varsity sport rather than club.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Does anyone know what the current school payments from tv/media are to the MW and MAC.

And what are some of the total amounts of student fees paid at schools in this conferences? Too lazy to look myself right now.
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Wyoming Financials for last year:

Wyoming reports a total of $3.45 million in media rights and $2.17 million in additional football conference distribution (i.e. bowl payouts, playoff distribution, NCAAT credits, etc..), $791,695 for men's basketball NCAAT distribution, $0 for women's NCAAWT basketball distribution and $23,702 for other sports distribution (wrestling and volleyball??)for a total of roughly $6.38. million in conference/NCAA distribution.

That is From Page 9 in the link below


So almost an immediate $6.4 million dollar jump if you get full MWC $$.
 
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AZGrizFan said:
Great writeup. I find it interesting that these conferences want to expand, then lay out expected performance levels, and then hamstring the new member financially to the point where they gotta dig so fucking deep that it makes it almost impossible.

Quite a business model.
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That is interesting. Makes me wonder just how/how strictly those performance penalties will be enforced.

Kind of related thought: How great would it be if they moved to a promotion/relegation model? Make the scholarship limit 85 for everyone, top 4 and bottom 4 swap places every year. Everyone will be where they should be within 10 years.
 
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