James Madison's jump, North Dakota State's reign and the FBS vs. FCS conundrum

[mthoopsfan]

I’m dumber than a box of rocks. In fact, I’m dumber than TWO boxes of rocks! But I think even I understand Everett’s concerns.

I mean, can you imagine being NDSU and being better than Alabama every year, but having to play teams like Northern Iowa? NDSU fans can imagine that! They do every single season!

Okay, let's see your explanation of how it applies to UM.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I’m dumber than a box of rocks. In fact, I’m dumber than TWO boxes of rocks! But I think even I understand Everett’s concerns.

I mean, can you imagine being NDSU and being better than Alabama every year, but having to play teams like Northern Iowa? NDSU fans can imagine that! They do every single season!

Okay, let's see your explanation of how it applies to UM.

How it applies: it could be a window into the future where the fan base becomes fickle and tired of beating up on little sisters of the poor, driving down attendance. It’s really not that complicated.

 

[kemajic]

coastal was in the top 25 of fbs last year. marshall has had some pretty good teams in the last few years. i suspect they'll play app state, which has been in the top 25 (fbs) recently. sounds like overall, their opponents this year will be pretty challenging, and presumably fun to watch. i like tradition in football, but u.m.'s traditional opponents have for the most part left for greener pastures, and better football opponents. sure, it might require the fans to learn about new teams and places, but i think it is probably the older crowd who is against doing this, because they feel like they are losing tradition, etc... but what is the winning tradition that people don't want to lose, and having weak opponents is one way to keep it.

As a member of the older crowd, I believe we will be regaining tradition by joining the Mountain West Conference.

Not older, oldest!

 

[mthoopsfan]

Okay, let's see your explanation of how it applies to UM.

How it applies: it could be a window into the future where the fan base becomes fickle and tired of beating up on little sisters of the poor, driving down attendance. It’s really not that complicated.

UM has been very good in FBS a lot longer than NDSU. Attendance decline hasn’t happened at UM. UM has better fans.

Did any of the reasons you cite cause Bison attendance to decline?

The bigger risk of attendance decline would be going 6-6 in FBS and having fewer MT players on the team.

 

[kemajic]

The bigger risk of attendance decline would be going 6-6 in FBS and having fewer MT players on the team.

Opinion, not fact. Another opinion is that with far better and more attractive opponents coming into Wash/Griz, that demand for tickets increases. Would you rather watch the Griz play Wyoming or UNC? Utah St. or PSU? There might be fewer MT players on the team, but we would have a better chance of landing the top MT recruits that want only FBS.

 

[kemajic]

How it applies: it could be a window into the future where the fan base becomes fickle and tired of beating up on little sisters of the poor, driving down attendance. It’s really not that complicated.

UM has been very good in FBS a lot longer than NDSU. Attendance decline hasn’t happened at UM. UM has better fans.

And a better stadium and gameday experience.

 

[Spanky2]

As a member of the older crowd, I believe we will be regaining tradition by joining the Mountain West Conference.

Not older, oldest!

You aren’t far behind, young fella!

 

[Spanky2]

How it applies: it could be a window into the future where the fan base becomes fickle and tired of beating up on little sisters of the poor, driving down attendance. It’s really not that complicated.

UM has been very good in FBS a lot longer than NDSU. Attendance decline hasn’t happened at UM. UM has better fans.

Did any of the reasons you cite cause Bison attendance to decline?

The bigger risk of attendance decline would be going 6-6 in FBS and having fewer MT players on the team.

Doubtful we would have fewer Montana players on the team. Possible we would gain some of those previously lost to FBS.

 

[Cowboys84]

UM has been very good in FBS a lot longer than NDSU. Attendance decline hasn’t happened at UM. UM has better fans.

And a better stadium and gameday experience.

Fbs, really...

as far as a better gameday expereince, is that why espn gameday has come to fargo for their show twice and not bothered to come to zootown even once?

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

And a better stadium and gameday experience.

Fbs, really...

as far as a better gameday expereince, is that why espn gameday has come to fargo for their show twice and not bothered to come to zootown even once?

I'd venture to say NDSU is under, by quite a bit, their potential. About 125k in Fargo and throw in Moorhead there's ~240k in the greater metropolitan area. Surrounded by rich farmland in both ND and MN, the turnout for podunk football is actually pathetic. Looks very similar to those throughout Montana who incessantly argue against moving up and playing a bit tougher schedule. Same numbers and demographics can be applied to South Dakota State considering the Brookings and Sioux Falls population.

I'd love to see all the quote-unquote "flagship" universities of the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado (minus the elitists in Boulder who erroneously feel they belong with Cali), and Utah State in an FBS conference but that is never going to happen. Way too much penal envy.

 

[mthoopsfan]

And a better stadium and gameday experience.

Fbs, really...

as far as a better gameday expereince, is that why espn gameday has come to fargo for their show twice and not bothered to come to zootown even once?

GameDay went to Fargo because they felt sorry for the Bison's declining attendance.

 

[mthoopsfan]

UM has been very good in FBS a lot longer than NDSU. Attendance decline hasn’t happened at UM. UM has better fans.

Did any of the reasons you cite cause Bison attendance to decline?

The bigger risk of attendance decline would be going 6-6 in FBS and having fewer MT players on the team.

Doubtful we would have fewer Montana players on the team. Possible we would gain some of those previously lost to FBS.

UM could not compete in the Mountain West without significantly upgrading its roster. This would have to come from out of state. It's one thing to play, and even win against, an FBS school, but it's difficult to complete in an FBS schedule.

Wyoming has 10 players from Wyoming on its roster. There are 3 Wyo. players on its two-deep, from its last game last season. There were almost 60 players on the two-deep.

The Lady Griz have 3 women from Montana on the roster now. Some fans have gotten what they wished for. A frosh, Albrecht and Bartsch.

 

[mthoopsfan]

The bigger risk of attendance decline would be going 6-6 in FBS and having fewer MT players on the team.

Opinion, not fact. Another opinion is that with far better and more attractive opponents coming into Wash/Griz, that demand for tickets increases. Would you rather watch the Griz play Wyoming or UNC? Utah St. or PSU? There might be fewer MT players on the team, but we would have a better chance of landing the top MT recruits that want only FBS.

I just used what the article said, as we were discussing things from the article.

"JMU is signing up for what might be a run of .500 seasons as they build depth and attempt to compete in the Sun Belt East,"

The Mountain West is better than the Sun Belt. James Madison clobbered the Griz last year.

The schools you mentioned don't excite me. When I see them on a channel, I flip to the next channel. I know that some of you would love to play those teams.

How many top MT recruits go FBS each year? Note, again, the Wyo. has 10 players on the Wyo. roster, and 3 on the two-deep.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Opinion, not fact. Another opinion is that with far better and more attractive opponents coming into Wash/Griz, that demand for tickets increases. Would you rather watch the Griz play Wyoming or UNC? Utah St. or PSU? There might be fewer MT players on the team, but we would have a better chance of landing the top MT recruits that want only FBS.

I just used what the article said, as we were discussing things from the article.

"JMU is signing up for what might be a run of .500 seasons as they build depth and attempt to compete in the Sun Belt East,"

The Mountain West is better than the Sun Belt. James Madison clobbered the Griz last year.

The schools you mentioned don't excite me. When I see them on a channel, I flip to the next channel. I know that some of you would love to play those teams.

How many top MT recruits go FBS each year? Note, again, the Wyo. has 10 players on the Wyo. roster, and 3 on the two-deep.

The top Wyoming players seem to be heading to Montana State the last few years. Bozeangeles High is full of Cali transplants the last few years.

 

[AZDoc]

I don't know how to feel about this...mostly because I have been a "move up" guy from the WAC rumor days. I really thought they were going to move up and was very excited for it. I still think they should have, especially with all the crap that's happening now, Griz likely would be a Mountain West team at this point. That said, both arguments are very valid. PR is absolutely correct, there would have to be SIGNIFICANT upgrade to be over .500 in the MTN West as it is. There absolutely would be less Montana kids on the 2 deep, and likely the roster. Maybe, though, that makes it even MORE fun to cheer for them as they break into the PT.
That said...if the dust settles with Boise, San Diego State, Fresno, UNLV jumping ship, then there is absolutely room for the Griz to move up into the mountain west...unless the leftovers from the Pac 12(10) are gobbled up. The Griz could be competitive with a watered down MTN West and with facilities etc, could become a decent Group of 5 team. It would absolutely be more fun to watch the Griz host Wyoming or Air Force over No. Colorado or Northwestern State.
The question to the kids would be...Would you rather play for a national championship at a lower level OR play at the higher level and make a bowl game but never a national title? I will tell you, I have been in both scenarios. I have been with kids playing in a low level bowl and have been with kids winning national championships at a lower level. BOTH groups absolutely love what is happening. The kids are treated very well at the "Traeger, great redmeat cookin' , smokin a bowl, bowl" as well as a D2 national championship game (week). Most kids would not be coming to Montana assuming that Alabama would be their New Years Day opponent. Most of them would be playing division 1 FBS football because of a dream. How many times on this board when the Griz lose a recruit to a low level team, has someone said..."Why would they go to ________? They suck. Why wouldn't they want to compete for a championship?" Well, simply, they wanted to play FBS.
Not many people like change...I am absolutely one of the worst with this...but the issue is that the times are changin folks. College football in 3 years is going to be absolutely different. Does the University want to change? Are they happy where they are? Soon, it MAY be D2 and no such thing as FCS. Maybe the group of 5 has their own playoff? Then yes, there is a chance to be the group of 5 national champion. Nobody likes 6-6 seasons as Griz Fans, and there would be losing seasons. But the long term potential could outreach those few low seasons. Appy, Marshall, GA Southern...all have been cyclical. We just do not know. Nobody really does.

 

[Spanky2]

Doubtful we would have fewer Montana players on the team. Possible we would gain some of those previously lost to FBS.

UM could not compete in the Mountain West without significantly upgrading its roster. This would have to come from out of state. It's one thing to play, and even win against, an FBS school, but it's difficult to complete in an FBS schedule.

Wyoming has 10 players from Wyoming on its roster. There are 3 Wyo. players on its two-deep, from its last game last season. There were almost 60 players on the two-deep.

The Lady Griz have 3 women from Montana on the roster now. Some fans have gotten what they wished for. A frosh, Albrecht and Bartsch.

It’s hard for me to believe that our football team can’t compete against Mountain West teams. A Montana football team that went to Seattle last year and beat the stuffing out of Washingtons football team.We might be 6-6 in year one, however, in year three, we will compete for the Mountain West championship. Now, for the Montana kids———Montana has many, many high school players that are gifted with natural talent. Bobby is the master of developing this talent and will continue after we are FBS. These kids will play for Montana in the Mountain West along with outstanding recruits from elsewhere. UM has our doors open for out of state and foreign students as well as Montana students which contributes to the university environment.We want to attract the best students possible, not protect Montana students. The same philosophy should apply to all UM athletic teams, including football.

 

[Cowboys84]

Fbs, really...

as far as a better gameday expereince, is that why espn gameday has come to fargo for their show twice and not bothered to come to zootown even once?

GameDay went to Fargo because they felt sorry for the Bison's declining attendance.

Considering you are the guy who thinks montana plays at the fbs level, you need to sit this one out..

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Doubtful we would have fewer Montana players on the team. Possible we would gain some of those previously lost to FBS.

UM could not compete in the Mountain West without significantly upgrading its roster. This would have to come from out of state. It's one thing to play, and even win against, an FBS school, but it's difficult to complete in an FBS schedule.

Wyoming has 10 players from Wyoming on its roster. There are 3 Wyo. players on its two-deep, from its last game last season. There were almost 60 players on the two-deep.

The Lady Griz have 3 women from Montana on the roster now. Some fans have gotten what they wished for. A frosh, Albrecht and Bartsch.

I'll never understand the need to get a roster full of Montana kids in either school. Hell, how many New Hampshire kids played for New Hampshire high schools?

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

Doubtful we would have fewer Montana players on the team. Possible we would gain some of those previously lost to FBS.

UM could not compete in the Mountain West without significantly upgrading its roster. This would have to come from out of state. It's one thing to play, and even win against, an FBS school, but it's difficult to complete in an FBS schedule.

Wyoming has 10 players from Wyoming on its roster. There are 3 Wyo. players on its two-deep, from its last game last season. There were almost 60 players on the two-deep.

The Lady Griz have 3 women from Montana on the roster now. Some fans have gotten what they wished for. A frosh, Albrecht and Bartsch.

That first statement is just flat out false. UMs current roster puts them at around .500 in the current mountain west, and if Lucas Johnson plays well enough the current roster could play well enough to be top 6 in MWC. My next favorite team after UM is Wyoming and I watch mountain west football religiously….. have for years. With a couple more depth pieces UM would be competing with the top 6 teams annually. Your bias just won’t allow you to acknowledge that UM would be just fine in the MWC

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

Opinion, not fact. Another opinion is that with far better and more attractive opponents coming into Wash/Griz, that demand for tickets increases. Would you rather watch the Griz play Wyoming or UNC? Utah St. or PSU? There might be fewer MT players on the team, but we would have a better chance of landing the top MT recruits that want only FBS.

I just used what the article said, as we were discussing things from the article.

"JMU is signing up for what might be a run of .500 seasons as they build depth and attempt to compete in the Sun Belt East,"

The Mountain West is better than the Sun Belt. James Madison clobbered the Griz last year.

The schools you mentioned don't excite me. When I see them on a channel, I flip to the next channel. I know that some of you would love to play those teams.

How many top MT recruits go FBS each year? Note, again, the Wyo. has 10 players on the Wyo. roster, and 3 on the two-deep.

And yet, when Wyoming is winning 6 or more games a year the stadium is pretty full, even with so few players on its roster from the home state. Wyoming high school football also isn’t nearly as good as Montanas. I lived there for 8 years and followed pretty closely while there. They’ve got some players. But AA in Montana would smoke their top tier programs.