IVYs looking to ban tackling in practice.

[SoldierGriz]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

We should be. :lol: But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

How about a Service Academy? Do it the week before CPSLO. Got to believe we'd get a leg up there.

:thumb: I like it! I'd love to see the Griz curb stomp Navy. But, they are pretty damn good. SMH in shame.

 

[PlayerRep]

...
If the Ivy League wanted to, it would be one of the top conferences in the FCS and one of the better conferences in the FBS. They just choose not to. The schools in the Ivy could just snap their fingers and money for sports facilities would roll in in numbers that would dwarf many of the FBS conferences.

I tend to agree.

Never been on an Ivy campus, but have met quite a few graduates from those schools. Hard to know who is serious and who's being PC when they talk about sports. Seems like the [bad] "image" of a big-time football program is the main problem ... they just can't stand the thought that they might compromise their "academic rigor" to field competitive big-boy sports (read football and, maybe, basketball). Never mind that "academic rigor" is regularly compromised in the name of "diversity" and other PC-BS. (FWIW, the "diversity" versus "rigor" comment was made by a brilliant black attorney ... who might one day be on the Supreme Court.)

Oddly enough, the Ivies do have a model of how to compete at the FBS level and stay true to their academic image -- Stanford, the "Harvard of the West," seems to do just fine.

Stanford keeps true to academic image, and attracts good kids, but it's admission standards for athletes are lower than the Ivies. For sports like football and basketball, as opposed to lacrosse, hockey and soccer, the Ivies don't want to be truly FBS level. They want good basketball and fairly good or credible football. They means mainly the presidents and their minions.

At least recently, Stanford is THE most selective university in the US, admitting just 5% of applicants.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-9-us-colleges-are-more-selective-than-some-ivy-league-schools-2015-3

At both Stanford and the Ivys, most recruited athletes fall into the bottom quartile or half in terms of their academic prowess with test scores as the benchmark. This is not meant as a negative....their test scores are all still qualifying for their institution, and better that 90% of other kids in the Nation. They all recruit the best of the very best academic performers who also happen to be athletes.

Military Academies are very similar in most ways, but they have the added challenge of finding kids who want to serve following graduation...a VERY, VERY difficult recruiting situation.

Soldier, your information on the academics of Ivy athletes is not really correct. Certainly, Ivy athletes are not in the bottom quarter (as opposed to half). The Ivies require recruited athletes, on a per team basis, to have a certain Academic Index, or AI. AI is a formula based grades and board scores. Each school's AI is calculated from the composition of the entire student body. Some schools are higher or lower than others. See below. The AI set for individual teams at the schools can only be a slight downward deviation from the mean for the school, 1 standard deviation down.

Sports like football have 4 Bands, involving levels of AI, and have strict rules for the number of athletes in each Bank. Other sports like baseball have only an overall AI number to satisfy. I believe the overall academics of big sports like football, basketball and hockey may be lower, but in many sports the academic numbers are high and certainly in the top half of the school.

Here are some quotes from various articles. By the way, the admissions rate at Stanford has nothing to do with the academic requirements of Stanford athletes. Stanford is very selection any way you want to measure it, however, the low admission rate is based on the very high number of applicants.

"A vast majority of recruited athletes have index numbers well above 200 (A-minus average and 1300 on two-part SAT) "

"Each Ivy League institution has a different (and closely guarded) AI computed by averaging the Individual AI of every student on campus. The following estimates are approximations extrapolated from observed overall strength of the respective applicant pools.

220 Harvard Yale Princeton
216 Dartmouth Brown Penn
210 Columbia Cornell"

[These are not current numbers.]

"Band 4 athletes are the most easily admitted, because their academic profile is at or above the Campus AI. Band 3 athletes, those one standard deviation or less below the Campus AI, are also in a relatively good position. Band 2 athletes are between one and two standard deviations below the Campus AI, so anyone admitted in this band must be balanced by a high Band 3 or Band 4 athlete. Admission of a low Band 2 athlete is more difficult. Band 1 athletes, more than two standard deviations below the Campus AI"

"If you have SAT scores of 720 math, 720 writing and 540 critical reading along with a 3.8 GPA, that comes out to an Academic Index score of around 213. A score of 213 puts you in the ‘pretty safe’ range by most standards."

"So if the typical Harvard (non-athlete) student index of 225 (estimated), the typical Harvard athlete would have an AI around 210 (estimated). What does a 210 AI look like in terms of test scores and GPA? That’s about 680 per section on the SAT(2040 total) or a 30 composite ACT, along with a 3.7 unweighted GPA."

http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/ivy-league-academics/

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/ivy-academic-index/?_r=0

 

[PlayerRep]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

Montana and Dartmouth are in touch, but Ivies schedule many years in advance, so nothing soon. I was told that Harvard wouldn't consider Montana, but don't know any specifics. Montana and Dartmouth tried to schedule a game years ago--I believe the first time Albany come to Missoula. Got pretty close. Hogan/O'Day would have done a one-time visit to Missoula, or a home-and-home. Money isn't an issue for an Ivy coming to Missoula.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

We should be. [emoji38]But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

St Francis will be more competitive

 

[SoldierGriz]

I tend to agree.

Never been on an Ivy campus, but have met quite a few graduates from those schools. Hard to know who is serious and who's being PC when they talk about sports. Seems like the [bad] "image" of a big-time football program is the main problem ... they just can't stand the thought that they might compromise their "academic rigor" to field competitive big-boy sports (read football and, maybe, basketball). Never mind that "academic rigor" is regularly compromised in the name of "diversity" and other PC-BS. (FWIW, the "diversity" versus "rigor" comment was made by a brilliant black attorney ... who might one day be on the Supreme Court.)

Oddly enough, the Ivies do have a model of how to compete at the FBS level and stay true to their academic image -- Stanford, the "Harvard of the West," seems to do just fine.

Stanford keeps true to academic image, and attracts good kids, but it's admission standards for athletes are lower than the Ivies. For sports like football and basketball, as opposed to lacrosse, hockey and soccer, the Ivies don't want to be truly FBS level. They want good basketball and fairly good or credible football. They means mainly the presidents and their minions.

At least recently, Stanford is THE most selective university in the US, admitting just 5% of applicants.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-9-us-colleges-are-more-selective-than-some-ivy-league-schools-2015-3

At both Stanford and the Ivys, most recruited athletes fall into the bottom quartile or half in terms of their academic prowess with test scores as the benchmark. This is not meant as a negative....their test scores are all still qualifying for their institution, and better that 90% of other kids in the Nation. They all recruit the best of the very best academic performers who also happen to be athletes.

Military Academies are very similar in most ways, but they have the added challenge of finding kids who want to serve following graduation...a VERY, VERY difficult recruiting situation.

Soldier, your information on the academics of Ivy athletes is not really correct. Certainly, Ivy athletes are not in the bottom quarter (as opposed to half). The Ivies require recruited athletes, on a per team basis, to have a certain Academic Index, or AI. AI is a formula based grades and board scores. Each school's AI is calculated from the composition of the entire student body. Some schools are higher or lower than others. See below. The AI set for individual teams at the schools can only be a slight downward deviation from the mean for the school, 1 standard deviation down.

Sports like football have 4 Bands, involving levels of AI, and have strict rules for the number of athletes in each Bank. Other sports like baseball have only an overall AI number to satisfy. I believe the overall academics of big sports like football, basketball and hockey may be lower, but in many sports the academic numbers are high and certainly in the top half of the school.

Here are some quotes from various articles. By the way, the admissions rate at Stanford has nothing to do with the academic requirements of Stanford athletes. Stanford is very selection any way you want to measure it, however, the low admission rate is based on the very high number of applicants.

"A vast majority of recruited athletes have index numbers well above 200 (A-minus average and 1300 on two-part SAT) "

"Each Ivy League institution has a different (and closely guarded) AI computed by averaging the Individual AI of every student on campus. The following estimates are approximations extrapolated from observed overall strength of the respective applicant pools.

220 Harvard Yale Princeton
216 Dartmouth Brown Penn
210 Columbia Cornell"

[These are not current numbers.]

"Band 4 athletes are the most easily admitted, because their academic profile is at or above the Campus AI. Band 3 athletes, those one standard deviation or less below the Campus AI, are also in a relatively good position. Band 2 athletes are between one and two standard deviations below the Campus AI, so anyone admitted in this band must be balanced by a high Band 3 or Band 4 athlete. Admission of a low Band 2 athlete is more difficult. Band 1 athletes, more than two standard deviations below the Campus AI"

"If you have SAT scores of 720 math, 720 writing and 540 critical reading along with a 3.8 GPA, that comes out to an Academic Index score of around 213. A score of 213 puts you in the ‘pretty safe’ range by most standards."

"So if the typical Harvard (non-athlete) student index of 225 (estimated), the typical Harvard athlete would have an AI around 210 (estimated). What does a 210 AI look like in terms of test scores and GPA? That’s about 680 per section on the SAT(2040 total) or a 30 composite ACT, along with a 3.7 unweighted GPA."

http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/ivy-league-academics/

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/ivy-academic-index/?_r=0

For all of these elite academic schools...the recruited athletes (overall) fall into the bottom half at a minimum, and into the bottom quartile (for some schools). I actually think we are saying the same thing. Football, basketball, hockey players get bigger admission breaks, and may fall in the bottom quartile (generally). The other sports bring the curve up.

In any case, every single one of the student athletes at these places are exceptional students.

 

[ordigger]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

We should be. [emoji38]But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

St Francis will be more competitive

I highly doubt that. For one thing he's only the Pope now, sainthood will be long after our time.

 

[PlayerRep]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

We should be. [emoji38]But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

St Francis will be more competitive

Haha, St Francis more competitive than Harvard or Dartmouth? Don't think so.

St. Francis was 7-4 last fall. Lost to 5-6 Youngstown St 3-48. Lost 20-35 to Towson.

St. Francis isn't strong, but not pathetic either.

 

[PlayerRep]

Stanford keeps true to academic image, and attracts good kids, but it's admission standards for athletes are lower than the Ivies. For sports like football and basketball, as opposed to lacrosse, hockey and soccer, the Ivies don't want to be truly FBS level. They want good basketball and fairly good or credible football. They means mainly the presidents and their minions.

At least recently, Stanford is THE most selective university in the US, admitting just 5% of applicants.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-9-us-colleges-are-more-selective-than-some-ivy-league-schools-2015-3

At both Stanford and the Ivys, most recruited athletes fall into the bottom quartile or half in terms of their academic prowess with test scores as the benchmark. This is not meant as a negative....their test scores are all still qualifying for their institution, and better that 90% of other kids in the Nation. They all recruit the best of the very best academic performers who also happen to be athletes.

Military Academies are very similar in most ways, but they have the added challenge of finding kids who want to serve following graduation...a VERY, VERY difficult recruiting situation.

Soldier, your information on the academics of Ivy athletes is not really correct. Certainly, Ivy athletes are not in the bottom quarter (as opposed to half). The Ivies require recruited athletes, on a per team basis, to have a certain Academic Index, or AI. AI is a formula based grades and board scores. Each school's AI is calculated from the composition of the entire student body. Some schools are higher or lower than others. See below. The AI set for individual teams at the schools can only be a slight downward deviation from the mean for the school, 1 standard deviation down.

Sports like football have 4 Bands, involving levels of AI, and have strict rules for the number of athletes in each Bank. Other sports like baseball have only an overall AI number to satisfy. I believe the overall academics of big sports like football, basketball and hockey may be lower, but in many sports the academic numbers are high and certainly in the top half of the school.

Here are some quotes from various articles. By the way, the admissions rate at Stanford has nothing to do with the academic requirements of Stanford athletes. Stanford is very selection any way you want to measure it, however, the low admission rate is based on the very high number of applicants.

"A vast majority of recruited athletes have index numbers well above 200 (A-minus average and 1300 on two-part SAT) "

"Each Ivy League institution has a different (and closely guarded) AI computed by averaging the Individual AI of every student on campus. The following estimates are approximations extrapolated from observed overall strength of the respective applicant pools.

220 Harvard Yale Princeton
216 Dartmouth Brown Penn
210 Columbia Cornell"

[These are not current numbers.]

"Band 4 athletes are the most easily admitted, because their academic profile is at or above the Campus AI. Band 3 athletes, those one standard deviation or less below the Campus AI, are also in a relatively good position. Band 2 athletes are between one and two standard deviations below the Campus AI, so anyone admitted in this band must be balanced by a high Band 3 or Band 4 athlete. Admission of a low Band 2 athlete is more difficult. Band 1 athletes, more than two standard deviations below the Campus AI"

"If you have SAT scores of 720 math, 720 writing and 540 critical reading along with a 3.8 GPA, that comes out to an Academic Index score of around 213. A score of 213 puts you in the ‘pretty safe’ range by most standards."

"So if the typical Harvard (non-athlete) student index of 225 (estimated), the typical Harvard athlete would have an AI around 210 (estimated). What does a 210 AI look like in terms of test scores and GPA? That’s about 680 per section on the SAT(2040 total) or a 30 composite ACT, along with a 3.7 unweighted GPA."

http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/ivy-league-academics/

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/ivy-academic-index/?_r=0

For all of these elite academic schools...the recruited athletes (overall) fall into the bottom half at a minimum, and into the bottom quartile (for some schools). I actually think we are saying the same thing. Football, basketball, hockey players get bigger admission breaks, and may fall in the bottom quartile (generally). The other sports bring the curve up.

In any case, every single one of the student athletes at these places are exceptional students.

No, recruited athletes in the Ivies don't fall into the bottom quartile at schools. Where's your source for that?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

I don't see what the big deal is. The Big Sky Conference banned tackling in games..........

Be careful Raider, being witty will get you band.

 

[SoldierGriz]

At least recently, Stanford is THE most selective university in the US, admitting just 5% of applicants.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-9-us-colleges-are-more-selective-than-some-ivy-league-schools-2015-3

At both Stanford and the Ivys, most recruited athletes fall into the bottom quartile or half in terms of their academic prowess with test scores as the benchmark. This is not meant as a negative....their test scores are all still qualifying for their institution, and better that 90% of other kids in the Nation. They all recruit the best of the very best academic performers who also happen to be athletes.

Military Academies are very similar in most ways, but they have the added challenge of finding kids who want to serve following graduation...a VERY, VERY difficult recruiting situation.

Soldier, your information on the academics of Ivy athletes is not really correct. Certainly, Ivy athletes are not in the bottom quarter (as opposed to half). The Ivies require recruited athletes, on a per team basis, to have a certain Academic Index, or AI. AI is a formula based grades and board scores. Each school's AI is calculated from the composition of the entire student body. Some schools are higher or lower than others. See below. The AI set for individual teams at the schools can only be a slight downward deviation from the mean for the school, 1 standard deviation down.

Sports like football have 4 Bands, involving levels of AI, and have strict rules for the number of athletes in each Bank. Other sports like baseball have only an overall AI number to satisfy. I believe the overall academics of big sports like football, basketball and hockey may be lower, but in many sports the academic numbers are high and certainly in the top half of the school.

Here are some quotes from various articles. By the way, the admissions rate at Stanford has nothing to do with the academic requirements of Stanford athletes. Stanford is very selection any way you want to measure it, however, the low admission rate is based on the very high number of applicants.

"A vast majority of recruited athletes have index numbers well above 200 (A-minus average and 1300 on two-part SAT) "

"Each Ivy League institution has a different (and closely guarded) AI computed by averaging the Individual AI of every student on campus. The following estimates are approximations extrapolated from observed overall strength of the respective applicant pools.

220 Harvard Yale Princeton
216 Dartmouth Brown Penn
210 Columbia Cornell"

[These are not current numbers.]

"Band 4 athletes are the most easily admitted, because their academic profile is at or above the Campus AI. Band 3 athletes, those one standard deviation or less below the Campus AI, are also in a relatively good position. Band 2 athletes are between one and two standard deviations below the Campus AI, so anyone admitted in this band must be balanced by a high Band 3 or Band 4 athlete. Admission of a low Band 2 athlete is more difficult. Band 1 athletes, more than two standard deviations below the Campus AI"

"If you have SAT scores of 720 math, 720 writing and 540 critical reading along with a 3.8 GPA, that comes out to an Academic Index score of around 213. A score of 213 puts you in the ‘pretty safe’ range by most standards."

"So if the typical Harvard (non-athlete) student index of 225 (estimated), the typical Harvard athlete would have an AI around 210 (estimated). What does a 210 AI look like in terms of test scores and GPA? That’s about 680 per section on the SAT(2040 total) or a 30 composite ACT, along with a 3.7 unweighted GPA."

http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/ivy-league-academics/

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/ivy-academic-index/?_r=0

For all of these elite academic schools...the recruited athletes (overall) fall into the bottom half at a minimum, and into the bottom quartile (for some schools). I actually think we are saying the same thing. Football, basketball, hockey players get bigger admission breaks, and may fall in the bottom quartile (generally). The other sports bring the curve up.

In any case, every single one of the student athletes at these places are exceptional students.

No, recruited athletes in the Ivies don't fall into the bottom quartile at schools. Where's your source for that?

Some will PR. Those who fall low in the tiers have to be made up for with others who fall high.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1425177-admission-standards-for-athletes-at-princeton-and-in-the-ivy-league.html

Not going to turn this into an argument...I have a kid who is working his ass off to get into one of these schools, or a service academy. Nothing but respect for these student athletes.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Can we get an "Ivy" on the schedule? Like to see what all the fuss is about.

I thought UM was the Harvard of the West? Confusing.

We should be. [emoji38]But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

St Francis will be more competitive

Haha, St Francis more competitive than Harvard or Dartmouth? Don't think so.

St. Francis was 7-4 last fall. Lost to 5-6 Youngstown St 3-48. Lost 20-35 to Towson.

St. Francis isn't strong, but not pathetic either.

That's funny............St Francis would FU*KING roll any Ivy school.

 

[Umista]

Will our fans have to dress up if an IVY comes to play us?

 

[Grizzoola]

How about a Service Academy? Do it the week before CPSLO. Got to believe we'd get a leg up there.

Yeah, Air Force is just down the road. Maybe a good test re: the Griz in the MWC.

 

[Grizzoola]

In 1951, Dick Kazmeier of Princeton, won the Heisman. He was a football hero of mine when I was in HS. Don't underrate Ivy athletes. Of course, college football was not as it is, now. IIRC, SEC schools were still segregated; very few black athletes in college programs. I could be corrected. Football now is a different scene: it's a high-stakes business compared to 1951. Point is, the Ivys have very good athletes, and, well, their brains must be protected, as they expect to become leaders in professions other than the pros.

Far as that goes, all brains must be protected. I remember being taught in HS football to tackle w/ your shoulder first. Use of the head in all sports, including soccer, should be outlawed.

 

[PlayerRep]

We should be. [emoji38]But, I think our admission rate is pretty damn high right now...

But, yes...we should bring in an Ivy for a game.

St Francis will be more competitive

Haha, St Francis more competitive than Harvard or Dartmouth? Don't think so.

St. Francis was 7-4 last fall. Lost to 5-6 Youngstown St 3-48. Lost 20-35 to Towson.

St. Francis isn't strong, but not pathetic either.

That's funny............St Francis would FU*KING roll any Ivy school.

Sagarin ratings for last season.

103 Harvard

111 Montana

114 Dartmouth

185 St Francis

 

[EverettGriz]

In 1951, Dick Kazmeier of Princeton, won the Heisman. He was a football hero of mine when I was in HS. Don't underrate Ivy athletes. Of course, college football was not as it is, now. IIRC, SEC schools were still segregated; very few black athletes in college programs. I could be corrected. Football now is a different scene: it's a high-stakes business compared to 1951. Point is, the Ivys have very good athletes, and, well, their brains must be protected, as they expect to become leaders in professions other than the pros.

Far as that goes, all brains must be protected. I remember being taught in HS football to tackle w/ your shoulder first. Use of the head in all sports, including soccer, should be outlawed.

You were in HS IN 1951??

 

[bgbigdog]

Will our fans have to dress up if an IVY comes to play us?

Someone will be in touch soon to see if you want to host a wine & Brie tailgate event. Black tie optional. Is the yacht too big to put in near the footbridge?

 

[EverettGriz]

Speaking of the prim and proper Ivies, I'll just leave this here.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14874842

 

[PlayerRep]

I'll just leave this here.

Highest Mid-Career Median Salary by College

College Salary

1. Dartmouth $129,000
2. Harvard $126,000
2. MIT $126,000
4. Harvey Mudd College $125,000
5. Princeton $124,000
5. Stanford $124,000
7. Colgate $122,000
8. Notre Dame $121,000
9. Yale $120,000
10. Penn $118,000

Source: Collegeatlas.

 

[EverettGriz]

I'll just leave this here.

Highest Mid-Career Median Salary by College

College Salary

1. Dartmouth $129,000
2. Harvard $126,000
2. MIT $126,000
4. Harvey Mudd College $125,000
5. Princeton $124,000
5. Stanford $124,000
7. Colgate $122,000
8. Notre Dame $121,000
9. Yale $120,000
10. Penn $118,000

Source: Collegeatlas.

YAAAAWWWWWN.

Many UM grads on here earn far more than those numbers.

Did you watch the video? It's pretty damn funny.