Ursa Major said:
PlayerRep said:
EverettGriz said:
Holy f***[*]! You cannot be this dumb.
These are the "they", direct from your own (admittedly very poorly written) post:
And then I simply stated that you were the only one posting unable to back up what "they" say.
Thx for putting in English. At least I now know what you were trying to say. Sorry, but I dont back up people who are wrong and people I don't agree with. Just like I won't back you up on saying the current griz performance is roughly the same as the glory days. Doubt that any other sane poster would either.
What you "did", PR, is what you always do. You "cooked the books", manipulated the information to make it fit your argument. EG, or anyone else should not be surprised by this. This is your training, your pattern and your world view. As an attorney, it's second nature to you, and others, on this board to create a reality that isn't based on an objective truth but based on your ability to control the message. Why would you not want to examine all of the facts (i.e. playoff performance regardless of home or away)?
If you truly want to do an "autopsy" on what this program has been thru over the past 5 years and the reason why there were firings then you have to look at what happened before then to give context. I would argue that an objective observer would come to the conclusion that there were problems in this program that extend before Pflugrad. Also, contextually, society and the times have been a changing. All the mitigating arguments that YOU'VE made over the years about athletes that got into fights, robbed and raped are a part of the problem. Shit had to change. Even a reformer like Pflugrad got caught up in that vortex. Not as much for what he said but when he said it (i.e. after all the other problems).
I'm not suggesting that these players didn't deserve due process of the law but lets be intellectually honest: there were a lot of players getting into trouble and making the front page of the paper. Right or wrong. there was a perception that UM football was a culture that was out of control and a small minority of these student athletes were out of control. A historian would suggest to understand any time in history one must look 5-25 years in the precedent years to understand that investigated time. I suggest you examine the legal problems and the general populations perceptions of this program during the Hauck years and also look at societal changes that took place during that time especially those changes of opinion regarding sexual assault. Guilty or not guilty, the UM football program had an image problem. Pflugrad was the last straw.
As a UM graduate, I will gladly exchange a win or two a season to not see a player on the crime log of the local paper.
For those of you who made it through this, I apologize about the length. I'm a bit dizzy and worn from the "Death Spiral".
Nope, Ursa, I did no such thing. I just couldn't understand what Everett's incredibly inarticulate and vague post was getting at, and then when I found out, I didn't agree with him. He is a very poor writer. And knows next to nothing about football.
I also like to chuckle at people like you who don't have a clue what business lawyers do, and think they are trained and act like litigators.
"fights, robbed and raped". Fights, yes a few did. None of them, except the frosh in front of the frosh dorm were anything of note. Those guys got overcharged. The charges were lowered for the 2 who didn't plea right away. The 3d played college football elsewhere and is a college coach. No one robbed, except for the several who "robbed" the marijuana dealer. Were charged and never played another down, and didn't end up with major criminal penalties. Raped. Donaldson pled. No one else was charged/convicted of rape, and no one else who hired a lawyer was tossed or of UM or not allowed to graduated. What a bogus "scandal" that all was.
The problem was not people like me who pointed out the facts and defended at times. It was people like you who couldn't or wouldn't see the facts. People like you who say "rightly OR wrongly". WTF. Wrongly. You have no brain or no balls.
Front page of paper, of a paper that was dishonest. I don't judge people or institutions by what gets on the front page of a paper, especially a horrible newspaper. I gather the facts, look at them and then make my own decisions.
Pflu did little or nothing wrong that deserved firing, and definitely did nothing wrong. He got fired by an unknowledgeable person, who has almost ruined UM. And small thinkers like yourself apparently supported the firing, and now you get to live with the aftermath. I'm happy for you.
I don't know if UM is in a death spiral or is now average, but I don't see UM winning 7 conference titles in a row (just Hauck, might have been more than that), going to the playoffs for 15 or more years in a row, and getting to the national championship game 50% of the time in a 10 or so year period, in the foreseeable future. In fact, never again will that happen.
And the biggest reason for that is people like Royce Engstrom and people like yourself who apparently supported what he did. While I like the Griz and wish they weren't in this hole, I am also glad that people like you are getting what you deserve.
