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It’s time to move up to the FBS the Mountain West preferably.

406football said:
Attendance is only a small fraction and is no reason why we should move up. Should Jackson State move up because they can fill 60,000?
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They can??? When did they do that the last time. Just because they play in the largest stadium in Mississippi doesn't mean they are selling anything out.
 
Griz in Texas said:
History has a lot to do with this. You can't change geography, and all of those how HAVE to win the instate recruiting battle, there are a lot fewer Montana kids who are capable of playing on that level and most of them are going to go out of state to play.
You're making my argument for me in basketball. If you don't know what the answer is, you are standing still. Basketball has needed an FCS equivalent since the field expanded to 48.
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I am lazy and didn't read all the previous posts, but this is nonsense.
 
Griz in Texas said:
They can??? When did they do that the last time. Just because they play in the largest stadium in Mississippi doesn't mean they are selling anything out.
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Since Jackson State was brought up.

🏟️ Jackson State Tigers (Mississippi Veterans Memorial Stadium)​

🏈 Opponent📅 Date🧍 Attendance
Florida A&MSep 730,215
Texas SouthernSep 2126,487
Bethune-CookmanOct 524,893
Alabama StateOct 1927,108
Arkansas–Pine Bluff 🏠 HomecomingNov 234,932
Alcorn StateNov 2328,347
  • Average Home Attendance: 27,2133
  • Total Home Attendance: 171,982
Jackson State led all FCS programs in average attendance for 2024, continuing its streak as a top draw in HBCU football.
 
Griz in Texas said:
They can??? When did they do that the last time. Just because they play in the largest stadium in Mississippi doesn't mean they are selling anything out.
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They can, but probably not going to happen again. They have the capacity to fill and they were doing just that a few years ago (Obviously because of Deion). My point was that attendance shouldn't be the barometer. We have the best fan base in the FCS without question, but that doesn't mean we should move up.
 
GallatinGriz03 said:
Since Jackson State was brought up.

🏟️ Jackson State Tigers (Mississippi Veterans Memorial Stadium)​

🏈 Opponent📅 Date🧍 Attendance
Florida A&MSep 730,215
Texas SouthernSep 2126,487
Bethune-CookmanOct 524,893
Alabama StateOct 1927,108
Arkansas–Pine Bluff 🏠 HomecomingNov 234,932
Alcorn StateNov 2328,347
  • Average Home Attendance: 27,2133
  • Total Home Attendance: 171,982
Jackson State led all FCS programs in average attendance for 2024, continuing its streak as a top draw in HBCU football.
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Okay, the claim was they COULD play in front of 60k. There is nothing close to that figure, not even their bowl game in ATL which drew about 36K. I said, when was the last time they drew 60K at Veterans Stadium in Jackson since they can.
 
Moving up would gut the football program and would not resemble anything close to what we have been accustomed to in the last 30 years. Montana doesn't have the money to finance this move to be successful. UCLA used to be a successful program in the 90's think they are $50+Million in the red now. USC isn't going to be competing for BIG Ten titles when they are being out budgeted by almost $30 Million from Oregon and OSU.

Point being we will need to spend millions and millions on players, coaches, and facilities. Do we have that kind of money year in and year out?
 
406football said:
They can, but probably not going to happen again. They have the capacity to fill and they were doing just that a few years ago (Obviously because of Deion). My point was that attendance shouldn't be the barometer. We have the best fan base in the FCS without question, but that doesn't mean we should move up.
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Because they have the "capacity" is a long way from they "can." The fact of that stadium is that when Mississippi or Mississippi State want to use it, guess what happens to Jackson State.

Attendance is a huge point because the University doesn't want to just sell tickets because the attendance numbers go up, the number doesn't move. All those people that show up buy things, concessions, apparel, seat backs, programs and whatever else at the stadium. Plus, if you missed it, Haslem was just on the pregame tailgate bragging about the money that football brings into the local economy because they are jonesing for support and advertising revenue probably.

If you buy a ticket and just sit at home, the attendance figure doesn't change, but the cash register takes a hit and that is what they need whether we moved up or not. Attendance in an over itself should not be the barometer because the way attendance is measured, by ticket sales, it doesn't reflect the actual number that were at the game, but it definitely drives the production of revenue, which is the real barometer.

I'm not arguing that we need to move up by saying we had 27K in the stadium on Saturday, I'm saying that you won't have 15K if the team does not win.
 
Griz in Texas said:
Because they have the "capacity" is a long way from they "can." The fact of that stadium is that when Mississippi or Mississippi State want to use it, guess what happens to Jackson State.

Attendance is a huge point because the University doesn't want to just sell tickets because the attendance numbers go up, the number doesn't move. All those people that show up buy things, concessions, apparel, seat backs, programs and whatever else at the stadium. Plus, if you missed it, Haslem was just on the pregame tailgate bragging about the money that football brings into the local economy because they are jonesing for support and advertising revenue probably.

If you buy a ticket and just sit at home, the attendance figure doesn't change, but the cash register takes a hit and that is what they need whether we moved up or not. Attendance in an over itself should not be the barometer because the way attendance is measured, by ticket sales, it doesn't reflect the actual number that were at the game, but it definitely drives the production of revenue, which is the real barometer.

I'm not arguing that we need to move up by saying we had 27K in the stadium on Saturday, I'm saying that you won't have 15K if the team does not win.
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I think we are on the same page. To be honest, I'm really not worried about arguing about Mississippi. I only brought Jackson State because they have the biggest stadium capacity and were averaging around 45,000 people a few years ago
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
The latter two. Total hogwash.
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So just sticking to football and not talking about basketball since that doesn't exist and was just a throw in.

If we are in the MW right now, how many Montana kids on our current roster do you say we have on the team? My contention is that it is far fewer than what we have. Most of them are not D-I talent and have to be developed, ala Drew Deck.

Then, let's just say we are recruiting Will Dissley and Brock Osweiler to play FBS football against these teams in our mighty conference. Do you think they aren't going to Washington and Arizona State? No way!
 
Griz in Texas said:
So just sticking to football and not talking about basketball since that doesn't exist and was just a throw in.

If we are in the MW right now, how many Montana kids on our current roster do you say we have on the team? My contention is that it is far fewer than what we have. Most of them are not D-I talent and have to be developed, ala Drew Deck.

Then, let's just say we are recruiting Will Dissley and Brock Osweiler to play FBS football against these teams in our mighty conference. Do you think they aren't going to Washington and Arizona State? No way!
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Great point. We do not have the tradition even if we were FBS to keep kids from going to places like Washington, Michigan, ASU, Texas, BC. If a kid from Montana has an opportunity to play on a team in a major conference he's going to take it. These kids grow up watching the FBS and the big stage games they see on TV.
 
Griz in Texas said:
History has a lot to do with this. You can't change geography, and all of those how HAVE to win the instate recruiting battle, there are a lot fewer Montana kids who are capable of playing on that level and most of them are going to go out of state to play.
You're making my argument for me in basketball. If you don't know what the answer is, you are standing still. Basketball has needed an FCS equivalent since the field expanded to 48.
Click to expand...
Yep. ANCIENT history, to be clear.

And yep again on the Montana kids going out of state. Maybe those kids stay IN state if there's an FBS option...
 
406football said:
Moving up would gut the football program and would not resemble anything close to what we have been accustomed to in the last 30 years. Montana doesn't have the money to finance this move to be successful. UCLA used to be a successful program in the 90's think they are $50+Million in the red now. USC isn't going to be competing for BIG Ten titles when they are being out budgeted by almost $30 Million from Oregon and OSU.

Point being we will need to spend millions and millions on players, coaches, and facilities. Do we have that kind of money year in and year out?
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I'm not looking for us to compete with Oregon or USC. Our natural rivals are Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State, Boise State, etc., etc. not Little Sisters of the Blind, WNW Central Washington Technical College, or the like.
 
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Griz in Texas said:
So just sticking to football and not talking about basketball since that doesn't exist and was just a throw in.

If we are in the MW right now, how many Montana kids on our current roster do you say we have on the team? My contention is that it is far fewer than what we have. Most of them are not D-I talent and have to be developed, ala Drew Deck.

Then, let's just say we are recruiting Will Dissley and Brock Osweiler to play FBS football against these teams in our mighty conference. Do you think they aren't going to Washington and Arizona State? No way!
Click to expand...
I have never been one to care about how many Montana kids are on the roster, but Montana kids would still make an impact if Montana were in the MW. The impact is what you want, not the token number.
 
406football said:
Great point. We do not have the tradition even if we were FBS to keep kids from going to places like Washington, Michigan, ASU, Texas, BC. If a kid from Montana has an opportunity to play on a team in a major conference he's going to take it. These kids grow up watching the FBS and the big stage games they see on TV.
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A) I don't care how many Montana kids we have on the team. Once they put on the uniform they're ALL Montana kids to me.
B) We have kids choosing 1-10 Nevada over in-state FCS options. If a kid is going to Michigan he's probably going to Michigan regardless. But if he's going to a G5 school, you don't think he might rather play in Missoula instead, all other things being equal?
 
AZGrizFan said:
A) I don't care how many Montana kids we have on the team. Once they put on the uniform they're ALL Montana kids to me.
B) We have kids choosing 1-10 Nevada over in-state FCS options. If a kid is going to Michigan he's probably going to Michigan regardless. But if he's going to a G5 school, you don't think he might rather play in Missoula instead, all other things being equal?
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EXACTLY!! If Montana was FBS we are still losing kids like Matt Ludwig to Michigan. No, I do not think they would rather play here over Boise State.

I don't care how many Montana kids are on the team either, and especially less so if we moved up. We would need to find a new pipeline because the one we have right now would not compete in the top of the MW. Where are we getting recruits from? It's also not very warm here in December.
 
Big Sky Attendance Numbers As of Week 6 in 2025:

TEAMOPPONENTATTENDANCECAPACITY
Cal Polyvs Western OregonN/A
Eastern Washingtonvs Western Illinois5,30161%
Idahovs St. Thomas (MN)
vs Utah Tech		8,065
7,681		53%
50%
Idaho Statevs Lincoln (CA)6,20352%
Montanavs Central Washington
vs #15 North Dakota
vs Indiana State
vs #8 Idaho		26,309
26,492
26,193
27,025		104%
105%
104%
107%
Montana Statevs #2 South Dakota St
vs San Diego
vs Mercyhurst
vs Eastern Washington		22,117
21,917
21,317
22,277		124%
123%
120%
125%
Northern Arizonavs Utah Tech
vs #18 Incarnate Word		9,611
10,007		86%
89%
Northern Coloradovs Chadron State
vs Idaho State		4,153
5,386		49%
63%
Portland Statevs #10 Tarleton State
vs #15 Northern Arizona		1,890
1,542		25%
20%
Sacramento Statevs Mercyhurst
vs Central Arkansas
vs Cal Poly		12,231
13,253
15,016		58%
63%
71%
UC Davisvs Southern Utah
vs Weber State		17,217
12,238		160%
114%
Weber Statevs Butler6,39337%
 
AZGrizFan said:
Yep. ANCIENT history, to be clear.

And yep again on the Montana kids going out of state. Maybe those kids stay IN state if there's an FBS option...
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I'm not going to argue over the same silly points over and over again. For those of you that can't see how dramatically this changes the success we've achieved, too bad. It's not happening anytime soon anyway so dream the dream that Montana walks off the field with the CFP championship and then wake up to the reality that the weeds will grow all over WA-Griz because no one will care anymore.
 
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