Is UM USC?

[CDAGRIZ]

Sorry if this has been posted a bunch, but UM Football reminds me so much of USC Football right now. Controversies, coaching turnover, everything. UM seems like USC on a much smaller scale. I haven't lived in Montana for a while, but here in the LA/Orange County area, there are so many USC supporters. Every fan seems like a USC insider, or has a friend on the payroll, or has heard some rumor, or knows someone who has. Tons of very proud alumni. USC was LA's pro football team for over 20 years (and really still is). It's very familiar. I decided to write it down and I'm interested in what everyone thinks. Feel free to add or tell me where I'm dead wrong.

Pre Carroll/Hauck:

USC obviously has a much more storied long-term history, but UM had two NCs and some pretty consistent success in the several years before Hauck came on board. USC was kinda mediocre during the same time frame, save for the 1995 Rose Bowl win. I think it's safe to say that both were very good programs used to success when Carroll/Hauck took the reigns.

Carroll/Hauck years:
Carroll started in 2001, Hauck in 2003. Both left after the 2009 campaign. Both programs were successful and did a great job meeting the expectations of fans and boosters. USC had two NCs, UM had a bunch of conference championships and three NC appearances. Both teams had off the field issues, both fan bases (as respective wholes) didn't mind as much because the programs were winners. Both fan bases felt that the programs were stable when these coaches left in 2009, and would have continued levels of success.

Ever since then:

The Griz hired Pflugrad, the Trojans hired Joey Freshwater. One has a hot daughter, the other HAD a hot wife. I know Hauck and Pflugrad are not the same person, but if you combine the Hauck/Pflugrad years, you get the same length tenure as Carroll had at USC for comparison's sake. Then, you get vacated wins in 2011 for UM, 2004 and 2005 for USC. Staying with the "UM is USC on a micro scale theme" USC's violations were for a booster buying Reggie Bush's parents a fucking house in SoCal and some shady stuff with O.J. Mayo. UM's were for a relative posting like $400 in bail, and a free hotdog, and institutional jaywalking, or something. Both schools ADs were fired. UM also had the additional off-field issues during that period.

USC went three seasons and change with Freshwater. UM went two with Pflugrad. Both were fired unceremoniously, one on the tarmac mid-season, the other after he had the nerve to call his starting QB a good guy. USC had two interims and settled on Sark. UM got Delaney. Both programs had inconsistent results on the field, and both sets of boosters were pissed and ready for a change. These programs were USC and the USC of FCS! The results were unacceptable. Losing to UCLA/MSU was unacceptable. Delaney resigned, Sark washed some pills down with tequila, and enter Stitt and Helton.

Both programs were very hopeful for some stability and a return to former glory. Both programs saw early success in each current coach's first full season, but neither program has returned to the success from the Carroll/Hauck-Pflugrad eras despite having highly-touted recruits, etc.

This season, USC has two losses to pretty good teams in WSU and ND. UM beat an ND handily, but also has two losses to pretty good teams in a WSU and the real WSU's methed up nephew down the road. Neither fan base is happy with the current season or overall state of the respective programs. Both alumni bases place a bit of blame in the turmoil of the last seven, or so, years.

While the parallels aren't perfect between UM and USC, I think there is a lot more in common than not (again, on a smaller scale here). I literally cannot walk next door, in either direction, without someone asking me if I watched the USC game and having at least a short conversation about it. My hood is crawling with USC fans/boosters. So many are saying the Trojans came out flat against ND citing lack of preparation, questioning schemes, you name it. The programs and fan bases are in the same state of repair. I have not, however, heard nearly as much chirping about replacing Helton as I have regarding Stitt. Most USC supporters with whom I talk are sick of the revolving door and cite continuity as an important quality in a powerhouse program. That's not agenda-driven, that's just an observation.

Anyway, I think there are a lot more parallels I didn't identify, and a ton of differences. I just think it's interesting that another hugely-proud program and alumni base is going through a very similar thing in a very similar timeframe.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Nebraska is similar as well.

 

[kyle_sample]

I love USC so I was sitting at home last night watching the game and when they mentioned that USC hasn't won a Pac-12 title in almost a decade I thought, well, that's a lot like Montana. It got me thinking for a few moments about the comparisons and there are plenty. Glad somebody else realized it.
However, if Darnold (and a couple other guys) comes back, USC is winning a championship next year

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Are there any man boob analogies here?

 

[GrizLA]

Sorry if this has been posted a bunch, but UM Football reminds me so much of USC Football right now. Controversies, coaching turnover, everything. UM seems like USC on a much smaller scale. I haven't lived in Montana for a while, but here in the LA/Orange County area, there are so many USC supporters. Every fan seems like a USC insider, or has a friend on the payroll, or has heard some rumor, or knows someone who has. Tons of very proud alumni. USC was LA's pro football team for over 20 years (and really still is). It's very familiar. I decided to write it down and I'm interested in what everyone thinks. Feel free to add or tell me where I'm dead wrong.

Pre Carroll/Hauck:

USC obviously has a much more storied long-term history, but UM had two NCs and some pretty consistent success in the several years before Hauck came on board. USC was kinda mediocre during the same time frame, save for the 1995 Rose Bowl win. I think it's safe to say that both were very good programs used to success when Carroll/Hauck took the reigns.

Carroll/Hauck years:
Carroll started in 2001, Hauck in 2003. Both left after the 2009 campaign. Both programs were successful and did a great job meeting the expectations of fans and boosters. USC had two NCs, UM had a bunch of conference championships and three NC appearances. Both teams had off the field issues, both fan bases (as respective wholes) didn't mind as much because the programs were winners. Both fan bases felt that the programs were stable when these coaches left in 2009, and would have continued levels of success.

Ever since then:

The Griz hired Pflugrad, the Trojans hired Joey Freshwater. One has a hot daughter, the other HAD a hot wife. I know Hauck and Pflugrad are not the same person, but if you combine the Hauck/Pflugrad years, you get the same length tenure as Carroll had at USC for comparison's sake. Then, you get vacated wins in 2011 for UM, 2004 and 2005 for USC. Staying with the "UM is USC on a micro scale theme" USC's violations were for a booster buying Reggie Bush's parents a f***[*] house in SoCal and some shady stuff with O.J. Mayo. UM's were for a relative posting like $400 in bail, and a free hotdog, and institutional jaywalking, or something. Both schools ADs were fired. UM also had the additional off-field issues during that period.

USC went three seasons and change with Freshwater. UM went two with Pflugrad. Both were fired unceremoniously, one on the tarmac mid-season, the other after he had the nerve to call his starting QB a good guy. USC had two interims and settled on Sark. UM got Delaney. Both programs had inconsistent results on the field, and both sets of boosters were pissed and ready for a change. These programs were USC and the USC of FCS! The results were unacceptable. Losing to UCLA/MSU was unacceptable. Delaney resigned, Sark washed some pills down with tequila, and enter Stitt and Helton.

Both programs were very hopeful for some stability and a return to former glory. Both programs saw early success in each current coach's first full season, but neither program has returned to the success from the Carroll/Hauck-Pflugrad eras despite having highly-touted recruits, etc.

This season, USC has two losses to pretty good teams in WSU and ND. UM beat an ND handily, but also has two losses to pretty good teams in a WSU and the real WSU's methed up nephew down the road. Neither fan base is happy with the current season or overall state of the respective programs. Both alumni bases place a bit of blame in the turmoil of the last seven, or so, years.

While the parallels aren't perfect between UM and USC, I think there is a lot more in common than not (again, on a smaller scale here). I literally cannot walk next door, in either direction, without someone asking me if I watched the USC game and having at least a short conversation about it. My hood is crawling with USC fans/boosters. So many are saying the Trojans came out flat against ND citing lack of preparation, questioning schemes, you name it. The programs and fan bases are in the same state of repair. I have not, however, heard nearly as much chirping about replacing Helton as I have regarding Stitt. Most USC supporters with whom I talk are sick of the revolving door and cite continuity as an important quality in a powerhouse program. That's not agenda-driven, that's just an observation.

Anyway, I think there are a lot more parallels I didn't identify, and a ton of differences. I just think it's interesting that another hugely-proud program and alumni base is going through a very similar thing in a very similar timeframe.

Pretty good comparisons but USC loses its top players to the NFL more often than not, the competition is tougher, and, while the coach has been called "non Trojan", Manikin, and worse, his players respect him and the AD has faith in him. The Notre Dame Game and WSU would not have been losses had there not been such key players who left for the pros. The one thing both have in common is a rich tradition in not only athletics but in everything that gets them involved in the community. L.A. is a richer place in many ways because of USC, its place in SoCal, along with UCLA basketball...Both have learned what I suspect UM is learning, that a coaching carousel is a sure way to hit bottom.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Nebraska is similar as well.

Hmm, good call. I hadn't thought about Brasky. Did they have the sanctions and nonsense in the same timeframe, too?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I love USC so I was sitting at home last night watching the game and when they mentioned that USC hasn't won a Pac-12 title in almost a decade I thought, well, that's a lot like Montana. It got me thinking for a few moments about the comparisons and there are plenty. Glad somebody else realized it.
However, if Darnold (and a couple other guys) comes back, USC is winning a championship next year

That's what I keep hearing . . .
Honestly, I hope you're right. We need somebody to win it out west.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Pretty good comparisons but USC loses its top players to the NFL more often than not, the competition is tougher, and, while the coach has been called "non Trojan", Manikin, and worse, his players respect him and the AD has faith in him. The Notre Dame Game and WSU would not have been losses had there not been such key players who left for the pros. The one thing both have in common is a rich tradition in not only athletics but in everything that gets them involved in the community. L.A. is a richer place in many ways because of USC, its place in SoCal, along with UCLA basketball...Both have learned what I suspect UM is learning, that a coaching carousel is a sure way to hit bottom.

UM's players respect Stitt and love playing for him. The AD hired him and has faith in him. Missoula is a significantly richer place because of UM's success...

 

[bgbigdog]

I’m assuming the Purple Merms were off this weekend.

A research project of this depth & detail would require lots of time & little alcohol.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I’m assuming the Purple Merms were off this weekend.

A research project of this depth & detail would require lots of time & little alcohol.

Actually, no. The P-Merms had practice cancelled on Wednesday due to heat, and had a cupcake opponent in the Pink Cotton Candies. 8am kickoff. We invited them to go all in after the first period, thus playing five against our four (they had one player of six mysteriously absent). They declined and paid the price to the tune of a 17-2 final. Their two goals were own goals. P-Merms are 6-2 with the final game next Saturday at 8:45am. I'll check back later in the week with some streaming options for those interested. As always listen to the Coach's Show Tuesdays at 9am PDT on SiriusXM 93.

I may have had a Dan-K IPA from the local brewery when I posted this thread, however. I don't believe it affected the research because I also had a #22 combo at SuperMex, but who knows?

PS: I am dead serious that everything I've posted about the P-Merms' season has actually happened. No shit. I'm not creative enough to make it up. EDIT: OK, there is no Coach's Show.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Nebraska is similar as well.

Hmm, good call. I hadn't thought about Brasky. Did they have the sanctions and nonsense in the same timeframe, too?

Insert any program with a storied history that isn't currently where their fan base expects them to be, winning championships.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Nebraska is similar as well.

Hmm, good call. I hadn't thought about Brasky. Did they have the sanctions and nonsense in the same timeframe, too?

Insert any program with a storied history that isn't currently where their fan base expects them to be, winning championships.

I get that, but I think the USC comparison has more similarities than any other in timeframe, substance, fan base, you name it.

 

[GrizLA]

Pretty good comparisons but USC loses its top players to the NFL more often than not, the competition is tougher, and, while the coach has been called "non Trojan", Manikin, and worse, his players respect him and the AD has faith in him. The Notre Dame Game and WSU would not have been losses had there not been such key players who left for the pros. The one thing both have in common is a rich tradition in not only athletics but in everything that gets them involved in the community. L.A. is a richer place in many ways because of USC, its place in SoCal, along with UCLA basketball...Both have learned what I suspect UM is learning, that a coaching carousel is a sure way to hit bottom.

UM's players respect Stitt and love playing for him. The AD hired him and has faith in him. Missoula is a significantly richer place because of UM's success...

And, what more can one ask of that, in life? All the rest is the cherry on the top...Missoula would be a truck stop without UM but fortunately for all of us, it isn't.