Is It Worth It for Small Football Schools to Move Up to FBS?

[billings_poke]

I am griz fan since the 70's so I have been a fan my whole life. We are below average team nationally in football. Most of the country think of the griz as what we think of Fort Collins or any division 2 progam. I am tired of people posting here saying we have a great program and we are so well known. We are not. We are known in FCS and locally. Our largest viewed game vs App St drew fewer viewership then those crappy bowl games. We get so pumped up for an ESPN game and talk how the playoffs get us out across the counrty to see our program but in reality no one gives a shit about Montana football but us fans of Montana and the FCS. We have to roads to choose from the wide easy road. The one that gives us a good feeling inside and we can 95% of our games and feel like we are a great program because we will win a shitty conference and maybe play in a national championship that the rest of the country dont give shit about. Just look at the viewership of those games. It is sad division 2 get more espn time then FCS. Or we can take the narrow road. Yes we will lose more games and we will feeling of we shouldn't lose will be gone. But the rewards are higher too. More Espn games that people will watch the feeling that we beat a team that we shouldn't beat or we might lose to. As competitor I look for challenges that make me better and stronger. I will always follow my griz. But winning or losing. But much rather lose to Colorado or Utah or Washington in our stadium then to Southern Utah or Northern Colorado.

So much fail here, I don't know where to begin. :lol: :lol: :lol:

1) The Griz/App State game drew more of a national audience (over 2.5 MILLION) than multiple other bowl games AND many BCS games:

To put that 1.9 into persepective, the average rating for Big 10 games on Big 10 Network in 2009 was 2.3. Compared to ratings for last years 37 FBS bowls, MT-ASU did better than six of the 2008-2009 games and viewer-wise came within five figures of four others.

Not bad considering that the GT/Clem Football Prime time game on ESPN 12/05/09 drew 1.6 million viewers and the same night on ABC Prime the USC/Arizona Football game drew 2.2 Million Viewers.
2.5 Million Viewers for APP ST/Griz game ESPN Prime. Great job to both schools and their fans

That would imply that more of the country cared about UM football than Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC or Arizona. In addition, the following bowl games had marquee teams and failed to exceed the Griz/ASU #'s: Insight (Big 12 vs Big 10), PapaJohns (Big East vs SEC)...Hmmm.... http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41726" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) I just relocated to San Antonio, TX. DURING THE INTERVIEW, with nothing but UT and Texas A&M grads in the room, I mentioned I was from Montana. The FIRST THING out of their mouths? "You've got a pretty good football team up there!". I shit you not.

3) Any time, EVERY time I wear Griz gear, no matter where I'm at (even in foreign countries), somebody comes up to me and says "Go Griz!" or something to that effect.

4) ESPN's average # of prime-time viewers last week? 1.1 million. In fact, the UM/ASU game would have finished THIRD last week in ALL cable networks.

Go peddle that shit someplace else.

what you are really comparing is games on ESPN versus a game on the NFL network. Gee wonder who wins the rating just based on viewership. Times, viewing competition,dates, all come into play. To me comparing viewership is apple to organes unless they are equivalent times and networks. ESPN really showcased that Appy game, which is cool and the promotion and time preference really showed

I wonder how many were appy fans?

 

[druhag]

If I had a crystal ball to look into, I think what I would see is the FCS level of football being reconstructed. There are so many programs out there struggling with the cost of football, and with the new rules some big conferences are taking preventing the scheduling of FCS teams, and the new playoffs, I believe there will be a real, and big push coming from FCS schools to reduce the number of scholarships at the FCS level. We can stay at the FCS level, we might not have much choice, but we may need to accept that staying at the FCS level may in fact result in a taking a step down. We will still play many of the same teams, in the same stadiums, but with fewer scholarships available. Will the level of play stay the same, will crowds stay the same? I don't know. If I was a fly on the wall when App and GSU made the decision to take a step up, they were seeing it as not only a step up, but preventing themselves from being forced to take a step down.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So much fail here, I don't know where to begin. :lol: :lol: :lol:

1) The Griz/App State game drew more of a national audience (over 2.5 MILLION) than multiple other bowl games AND many BCS games:

To put that 1.9 into persepective, the average rating for Big 10 games on Big 10 Network in 2009 was 2.3. Compared to ratings for last years 37 FBS bowls, MT-ASU did better than six of the 2008-2009 games and viewer-wise came within five figures of four others.

Not bad considering that the GT/Clem Football Prime time game on ESPN 12/05/09 drew 1.6 million viewers and the same night on ABC Prime the USC/Arizona Football game drew 2.2 Million Viewers.
2.5 Million Viewers for APP ST/Griz game ESPN Prime. Great job to both schools and their fans

That would imply that more of the country cared about UM football than Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC or Arizona. In addition, the following bowl games had marquee teams and failed to exceed the Griz/ASU #'s: Insight (Big 12 vs Big 10), PapaJohns (Big East vs SEC)...Hmmm.... http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41726" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) I just relocated to San Antonio, TX. DURING THE INTERVIEW, with nothing but UT and Texas A&M grads in the room, I mentioned I was from Montana. The FIRST THING out of their mouths? "You've got a pretty good football team up there!". I shit you not.

3) Any time, EVERY time I wear Griz gear, no matter where I'm at (even in foreign countries), somebody comes up to me and says "Go Griz!" or something to that effect.

4) ESPN's average # of prime-time viewers last week? 1.1 million. In fact, the UM/ASU game would have finished THIRD last week in ALL cable networks.

Go peddle that shit someplace else.

what you are really comparing is games on ESPN versus a game on the NFL network. Gee wonder who wins the rating just based on viewership. Times, viewing competition,dates, all come into play. To me comparing viewership is apple to organes unless they are equivalent times and networks. ESPN really showcased that Appy game, which is cool and the promotion and time preference really showed

I wonder how many were appy fans?

Which game was NFL network?

 

[Ursa Major]

Okay, folks, I have long been opposed to UM moving up, for all the reasons (mostly financial) stated by others in this thread. All of that aside, even if UM were to try to move up, where would they go??? MWC and Pac-12 are the only football conferences in the west, and neither one of them is going to extend UM an invitation anytime in the next decade. So, I ask again, where would UM go?

Who knows? Maybe an upwardly mobile Big Sky? Pared down or reconstituted with other western schools (e.g. NoDak St., SoDak St., Idaho?). Seems like this could be a better option and would appeal to Doug Fullerton's desire to rule the world.

 

[George Ferguson]

Flowtown, just wow on your two posts. All I'll say in response is: 1. In case you haven't noticed, the Griz aren't winning 95 percent of their games these days. In case you missed it, they had a losing record last season, finished below UNC in the Big Sky and have only shared the Big Sky title once in the last three seasons. An anomle? Maybe, unless you're a Bobcat fan who believes UM is done for good. But to base the Griz should move up on dominating the Big Sky at this point is what's nuts. Past history has no baring at this point either. The UM team would be moving up NOW! Not with rosters from 1990-2009. Second: Yes, a few Pac 12 teams play at MWC venues once in a while, but Montana isn't being courted by the MWC, in fact, at this point, Montana isn't being courted by ANY FBS Conference. Any FBS conference the Griz are likely to land in will NOT be one that will bring in Washington, Colorado or Utah to Wash/Griz. I'd bet my house on that one.

 

[GlassOnion]

If I had a crystal ball to look into, I think what I would see is the FCS level of football being reconstructed. There are so many programs out there struggling with the cost of football, and with the new rules some big conferences are taking preventing the scheduling of FCS teams, and the new playoffs, I believe there will be a real, and big push coming from FCS schools to reduce the number of scholarships at the FCS level. We can stay at the FCS level, we might not have much choice, but we may need to accept that staying at the FCS level may in fact result in a taking a step down. We will still play many of the same teams, in the same stadiums, but with fewer scholarships available. Will the level of play stay the same, will crowds stay the same? I don't know. If I was a fly on the wall when App and GSU made the decision to take a step up, they were seeing it as not only a step up, but preventing themselves from being forced to take a step down.

The SoCon Commish was the one that started the cutting scholarships idea. Yesterday in press conference Charlie Cobb, the App AD, said it had been raised for discussion, when he was talking about some reasons why App was leaving.

 

[ordigger]

Remember those schools that were Division 2 schools, when Idaho, Nevada, & Boise State made the jump? Some of them are now moving right on by Montana....North Dakota State will make the jump soon. Programs like Georgia State & Old Dominion didnt even have programs then.

The bottom line is, if it sucks to move up to FBS, why are the premier schools all looking at doing it? We know Appy is making the move now, with hopes to get into the CUSA. UMass did their move simply because they hoped to be with their peers in the Big East (thats a bit railroaded). James Madison will move soon with hopes up getting in CUSA. Montana needs to decide, do we gamble and take a chance that we drop to Division II? or do we move now, with hopes of getting to the PAC-36 in about 50 years?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Here's a question.

Let's say a group of individual FCS and FBS programs got together and decided, hey, we're a good fit, geographically, culturally, athletically, etc. - let's form a new Division I athletic conference!

How would they even approach the NCAA to accomplish that?

Note: I googled "start a new NCAA athletic conference" and got nothing that was helpful.

 

[billings_poke]

Here's a question.

Let's say a group of individual FCS and FBS programs got together and decided, hey, we're a good fit, geographically, culturally, athletically, etc. - let's form a new Division I athletic conference!

How would they even approach the NCAA to accomplish that?

Note: I googled "start a new NCAA athletic conference" and got nothing that was helpful.

why would an FBS school do that?

 

[Ursa Major]

Here's a question.

Let's say a group of individual FCS and FBS programs got together and decided, hey, we're a good fit, geographically, culturally, athletically, etc. - let's form a new Division I athletic conference!

How would they even approach the NCAA to accomplish that?

Note: I googled "start a new NCAA athletic conference" and got nothing that was helpful.

why would an FBS school do that?

Maybe Idaho gets sick of traveling to FLA for conference games? Hard to come up with other examples...

 

[GlassOnion]

Maybe Idaho gets sick of traveling to FLA for conference games? Hard to come up with other examples...

Good thing there wont be any Florida teams in the Sun Belt.

 

[druhag]

If I had a crystal ball to look into, I think what I would see is the FCS level of football being reconstructed. There are so many programs out there struggling with the cost of football, and with the new rules some big conferences are taking preventing the scheduling of FCS teams, and the new playoffs, I believe there will be a real, and big push coming from FCS schools to reduce the number of scholarships at the FCS level. We can stay at the FCS level, we might not have much choice, but we may need to accept that staying at the FCS level may in fact result in a taking a step down. We will still play many of the same teams, in the same stadiums, but with fewer scholarships available. Will the level of play stay the same, will crowds stay the same? I don't know. If I was a fly on the wall when App and GSU made the decision to take a step up, they were seeing it as not only a step up, but preventing themselves from being forced to take a step down.

The SoCon Commish was the one that started the cutting scholarships idea. Yesterday in press conference Charlie Cobb, the App AD, said it had been raised for discussion, when he was talking about some reasons why App was leaving.

I think people need to realize that by not moving up, we may be choosing to move down.

 

[GlassOnion]

I think people need to realize that by not moving up, we may be choosing to move down.

Careful posting that. The App and GSU fans were eviscerated for making that argument. You'll have FCS homers crawling all over your back.

I think its right though, IMO. I am positive that CUSA, MAC, SB type conferences will not go below 85 scholarships. They've clawed too hard to get to that point, where as FCS schools and conferences have anywhere from 0-63 schollies. If youre going to have 0 schollies, you might as well be D2. If youre willing to play teams with 0 schollies, you should be willing to play D2. Heck,they've got a Nat Champ too, and prove it on the field. Thats what the FCS crowd likes, right?

 

[Ursa Major]

Maybe Idaho gets sick of traveling to FLA for conference games? Hard to come up with other examples...

Good thing there wont be any Florida teams in the Sun Belt.[/quote]

Who knew? Is there a website or a newsletter for inconsequential conferences with revolving door memberships?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe Idaho gets sick of traveling to FLA for conference games? Hard to come up with other examples...

Good thing there wont be any Florida teams in the Sun Belt.

Who knew? Is there a website or a newsletter for inconsequential conferences with revolving door memberships?

:lol:

 

[grizindabox]

People do realize that moving to FBS is not really about wins and loses directly...it is about finances. We are not talking about having a large profit either, it is about the probability of breaking even. I am no longer pushing the Griz should move up agenda, but I am not sure the Sun Belt is any worse than the Big Sky. And I also see FCS changing very soon, whether that is reductions in scholarships or the entire classification just going away and the teams either joining the bottom tier of FBS, the upper tier of D2 or just dropping football altogether.

 

['68griz]

If I had a crystal ball to look into, I think what I would see is the FCS level of football being reconstructed. There are so many programs out there struggling with the cost of football, and with the new rules some big conferences are taking preventing the scheduling of FCS teams, and the new playoffs, I believe there will be a real, and big push coming from FCS schools to reduce the number of scholarships at the FCS level. We can stay at the FCS level, we might not have much choice, but we may need to accept that staying at the FCS level may in fact result in a taking a step down. We will still play many of the same teams, in the same stadiums, but with fewer scholarships available. Will the level of play stay the same, will crowds stay the same? I don't know. If I was a fly on the wall when App and GSU made the decision to take a step up, they were seeing it as not only a step up, but preventing themselves from being forced to take a step down.

The SoCon Commish was the one that started the cutting scholarships idea. Yesterday in press conference Charlie Cobb, the App AD, said it had been raised for discussion, when he was talking about some reasons why App was leaving.

I think people need to realize that by not moving up, we may be choosing to move down.

But, as I asked earlier in this thread, where is Montana going to move to????? There are NO FBS conferences in the west begging to include UM.

 

[billings_poke]

People do realize that moving to FBS is not really about wins and loses directly...it is about finances. We are not talking about having a large profit either, it is about the probability of breaking even. I am no longer pushing the Griz should move up agenda, but I am not sure the Sun Belt is any worse than the Big Sky. And I also see FCS changing very soon, whether that is reductions in scholarships or the entire classification just going away and the teams either joining the bottom tier of FBS, the upper tier of D2 or just dropping football altogether.

Personally I think if the Griz had Boise, Air Force, Utah State, Wyoming, CSU, etc coming to Missoula you could easily support a 30K stadium. Regional teams that would bring one to two thousand fans into missoula would greatly improve your revenue stream. Hell Boise would bring 5k to 10K alone if you had the seats and Wyo a couple of thousand from the northern part of the state. The money is there for UM to support a MWC level program given your own estimates on your study. You do need some capital improvements pretty badly though to recruit at that level

Without access to the FBS/BCS playoff money and the loss of some FBS body bag games I also see the FCS reducing the number of scholarships due to pressure from the Have nots of FCS football to level the playing field a bit. They do outnumber the haves.

I don't know if the MWC ever expands and I expect that we will look to Texas first but UM and Maybe MSU should be investing and building bridges just in case. maybe that is why UM is playing in Laramie in 2014 rather then a bigger payday elsewhere. Showcase the team to MWC members a bit who might support a membership application. Front range schools would be the place to start for UM/MSU to build those bridges.

Either way getting the invite is a problem in the west and the Big Sky looks pretty stable with only UND a possible loss right now so the Big Sky is a good place to stay and perhaps hope something shows up in the West with the MWC losing a couple of teams. I don't see enough teams in the Big Sky with the resources to bring back football to the WAC or to start a new conference.

Looking forward to the griz game in Laramie in 2014. Might have to drive down for that one given both teams will have senior veteran QBs and solid WR corps. Might be a show. I have tickets to cat/griz this year as well so should be fun.

 

[PlayerRep]

People do realize that moving to FBS is not really about wins and loses directly...it is about finances. We are not talking about having a large profit either, it is about the probability of breaking even. I am no longer pushing the Griz should move up agenda, but I am not sure the Sun Belt is any worse than the Big Sky. And I also see FCS changing very soon, whether that is reductions in scholarships or the entire classification just going away and the teams either joining the bottom tier of FBS, the upper tier of D2 or just dropping football altogether.

Personally I think if the Griz had Boise, Air Force, Utah State, Wyoming, CSU, etc coming to Missoula you could easily support a 30K stadium. Regional teams that would bring one to two thousand fans into missoula would greatly improve your revenue stream. Hell Boise would bring 5k to 10K alone if you had the seats and Wyo a couple of thousand from the northern part of the state. The money is there for UM to support a MWC



Looking forward to the griz game in Laramie in 2014. Might have to drive down for that one given both teams will have senior veteran QBs and solid WR corps. Might be a show. I have tickets to cat/griz this year as well so should be fun.

UM couldn't fill its existing stadium with those opposing teams, unless UM was consistently winning those games. Several of those teams are of no interest to me, as a fan. I'd rather play Big Sky conference teams and rivals, as the team marches toward a conference championship and the playoffs.

The money isn't there for UM to support being in the MWC. Total nonesense. Your earlier MWC conference payments were grossly inflated, when I did some Googling. Your figure was 3 times what I found Googling.

 

[rimrockgriz]

I can imagine the excitement of playing WSU, WYO, maybe even UW at home. .

Your argument is based on the assumption that Wyoming games are exciting. Unless it's Nebraska or Boise State, Laramie is lucky to draw 18K to a game in a half-full stadium. You'll deal with the same problem moving up: a few schools will draw decent crowds but the rest will be small.

We draw 25000 playing ISU & UNC... those are exciting games? I don't see your point here. Playing against MWC ir Pac12 teams are an upgrade in competition & would draw crowds comparable to the UNC & ISU games.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I believe he is suggesting that when you start losing, a lot of people stop showing up. I agree. There used to be a lot of empty seats for Griz games.

I don't see us getting a pac-12 school to WA-Griz, even if we had a decent decade under our belts in FBS. The California teams of the Pacific Coast Conference would never play in Missoula, and we were in the same conference.

However your talking about the days when we played in that "DUMP" aka Dornblaser... uke: