Is Choate Taking Cats in Right Direction?

[Copper Griz]

Would this even be a thread if the Cats hadn’t beaten a mediocre Griz team the last two years? No he doesn’t really have the program turned around and that is fine by me. Mediocrity being embraced by Cats is just great!! I Love it.

 

[Bearcountry92]

He has started the upswing with the program and nobody can deny that. I am surprised to a point that he has not done better there, knowing some of the coaches he has with him. It was mentioned having full control of his team by now which I don’t think he does. Considering they have had three or four OC in the 3 years he has been there. If they could get a QB that can pass as well as he can run then I think things really start clicking over there. But as for this year they end their season at 6-5 and Griz continue to rebuild at 7-4.

 

[IVLIANVS]

Simple answer: yes. Bigger answer may depend on expectations and how far they are towards that direction.

I think the measure of a coach who isn't making playoffs has to be viewed with progressive improvement. Can they honestly say he has improved their program during his tenure?
2016 4 wins
2017 5 wins
2018 6 wins
I guess there is kind of a slow movement for the better. If it were my program, I probably would have wanted to see a bigger change happening.

There are a lot bigger, more complicated factors into this kind of evaluation, that I just don't know the answers to.

The biggest question might be - can they do better? Who else might they be able to put in his place to get more out of this program? If there isn't some big name out there begging to come in and coach (realistically who would be?), I think he gets to stay.

 

[PlayerRep]

This is where I am as well. The previous coach had them in the playoffs regularly...ranked...and winning or close to winning the league. They will finish 6 and 5. But hey, it is better than 5 and 6...

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

Yeah I get Ash crashed and burned....but he did win three straight league titles...have the cats ranked well, and go the playoffs regularly. The new coach has done none of those things...yet. Perhaps he will. Just not clear to me right now.

Ash won the conference outright in 1 out of 9 seasons. Tied for 1st twice. Went to the playoffs 4 of 9 years. Really just had 3 nice seasons in a row, in large part because of McGhee, from 2010-2012. Then, pretty much crashed. He was taking the program down then, not up, not maintaining.

 

[PlayerRep]

Would this even be a thread if the Cats hadn’t beaten a mediocre Griz team the last two years? No he doesn’t really have the program turned around and that is fine by me. Mediocrity being embraced by Cats is just great!! I Love it.

No, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Choate had not beaten the Griz 2 years in a row, improved the record of the team in each of his first 3 years, improved the defense, and shown improvement in each of his first 3 years.

 

[SoldierGriz]

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

Yeah I get Ash crashed and burned....but he did win three straight league titles...have the cats ranked well, and go the playoffs regularly. The new coach has done none of those things...yet. Perhaps he will. Just not clear to me right now.

Ash won the conference outright in 1 out of 9 seasons. Tied for 1st twice. Went to the playoffs 4 of 9 years. Really just had 3 nice seasons in a row, in large part because of McGhee, from 2010-2012. Then, pretty much crashed. He was taking the program down then, not up, not maintaining.

You do realize we are saying the same thing, correct? We both neglected to mention the cats were ranked 1 in the nation for a very short time...until oops...

While you seem quite sure choat has them rising, I am not so sure. Choat hasn't put together 3 nice seasons in a row...yet. You think he will find a qb?

 

[Mavman]

In year three if Bobby had 15 wins like Choate I hope he would be fired.
The fact that you all think Choate is doing such a great job avg 5 wins a season are ridiculous.
Can’t Recruit a Qb, goes through OC’s
Like underwear and miss using his best player!

 

[ranco]

It's taken Choate 3 years to essentially get back to where the program was when Ash left. The Cat's went 13 straight years with a winning record, 2002-14. Ash went 5-6 his last year.

So as a Griz fan, I agree that Choate is taking them in the right direction.

 

[Spanky2]

Some of them are probably dual state college and Griz fans.

 

[ABQCat]

So I'm sure everyone is waiting in hungry anticipation for ABQ's thoughts on all this business. I'll just make one super-post that touches most elements of the conversations. Enjoy.

1. Yes Choate is taking the program in the right direction. Ash was an all time great coach for the Cats, but he had lost the locker room by the end. With Ash's guys and inheriting a broken culture and a horrible drop down QB (Brugman), Choate started 0-6. Since then he's 14-6.

2. Speaking of QBs and acknowledging Ash left the cupboard bare, Choate had to go with Murray because that was literally all he had. Period. The true freshman version Rovig was not even close. The year 3 version of Murray was actually looking serviceable in spring, and Rovig had a good fall camp. Losing both those guys hurts. Choate has been snake bit at QB and now is using a guy that he knows can at least get guys lined up and run plays. That fact we are even in the conversation for playoffs is an eff'ing miracle.

3. With that said, Choate has made it a priority to recruit QBs and the jury is still out on his effectiveness. I happen to think the competition next spring with Bauman, Rovig, Beltran, (and Jensen) will be a good one.

4. Miller is doing a good job so far at OC. He is going to be head coach in a P5 someday. You heard it here first. He gets the ball into our playmakers, and he actually gives me some level of optimism that we can win Saturday using a LB at QB.

5. The griz are a bipolar team, which is unnerving as a Cat fan. Sneed has looked all conference (even all american) at times, but he's also looked truly awful. When things start going bad, they go very bad in a hurry. But when things go well, you guys score easily in huge bunches.

6. Every possible outcome is possible on Saturday. The usual cliches apply. If the Cats can take the crowd out and make Sneed think he needs to put the game on his shoulders, the Cats will win. If you guys jump out ahead similar to Idaho, you will win. Possibly by a big margin.

 

[PlayerRep]

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

Yeah I get Ash crashed and burned....but he did win three straight league titles...have the cats ranked well, and go the playoffs regularly. The new coach has done none of those things...yet. Perhaps he will. Just not clear to me right now.

Ash won the conference outright in 1 out of 9 seasons. Tied for 1st twice. Went to the playoffs 4 of 9 years. Really just had 3 nice seasons in a row, in large part because of McGhee, from 2010-2012. Then, pretty much crashed. He was taking the program down then, not up, not maintaining.

You do realize we are saying the same thing, correct? We both neglected to mention the cats were ranked 1 in the nation for a very short time...until oops...

While you seem quite sure choat has them rising, I am not so sure. Choat hasn't put together 3 nice seasons in a row...yet. You think he will find a qb?

I wasn't sure what you were saying, so I furnished the facts. I'm not sure playoffs 4 of 9 years is "regularly". Yes, I think Choate is taking Cats in right direction. I don't see how that can be disputed. From a 5 win last season for Ash and losses to Griz, to 6, or god forbid 7, wins to 2 straight wins over the Griz, or god forbid, 3 straight wins. Where the rise slows or ends, I don't know. But I would be feeling pretty good if I were in Cat nation.

 

[PlayerRep]

It's taken Choate 3 years to essentially get back to where the program was when Ash left. The Cat's went 13 straight years with a winning record, 2002-14. Ash went 5-6 his last year.

So as a Griz fan, I agree that Choate is taking them in the right direction.

Wasn't year 2 of Choate already better than Ash's 5-6 and loss to Griz? Even year 1 was 4-7 with win over Griz might be considered a push.

 

[wbtfg]

There are some very nice and interesting posts in this thread. Thx.

As a Cat Fan, I love the direction the team is going. When Choate came in he said he was going to do a total rebuild that would take 4 years. 1st year - Lose big; 2nd year - Lose Close; 3rd year - Win close; 4th year - win big. I'd say that we are pretty much on that trajectory....even with a linebacker playing QB.

Defensively the team is very good, offensively we are still a work in progress. One could argue the hypothetical that if we had a decent QB and Troy was splitting time at LB and RB, we would have won 1-2 more games this year.

Regardless of record, I think the mindset, toughness and culture of the program has progressed dramatically.

 

[PlayerRep]

There are some very nice and interesting posts in this thread. Thx.

As a Cat Fan, I love the direction the team is going. When Choate came in he said he was going to do a total rebuild that would take 4 years. 1st year - Lose big; 2nd year - Lose Close; 3rd year - Win close; 4th year - win big. I'd say that we are pretty much on that trajectory....even with a linebacker playing QB.

Defensively the team is very good, offensively we are still a work in progress. One could argue the hypothetical that if we had a decent QB and Troy was splitting time at LB and RB, we would have won 1-2 more games this year.Regardless of record, I think the mindset, toughness and culture of the program has progressed dramatically.

This is my impression too. Losing your qb early was a huge blow, particularly given how little was available behind him.

Even the troll ABCat had a pretty good analysis, except that I don't agree that Sneed has been truly awful at times. He threw some bad picks in a couple games, and poorly at the beginning of one, and didn't have good games, but he's been good to very good most of the season. Just eyeballing the stats of the top qb's, it looks like Sneed looks fairly good on picks compared to how much he throws.

The Griz have improved in a similar fashion to your last sentence on the Cats. Should be a good and hard fought game. I think the Griz will win, but this year and in a rivalry game, who knows. It would be nice to see one of them sneak into the playoffs.

 

[MikeyGriz]

He hasn't gotten them any further than they were before he arrived. By this measure, I'd say they were already headed in the right direction under the previous coach. Let's see what the situation is after Saturday.

This is where I am as well. The previous coach had them in the playoffs regularly...ranked...and winning or close to winning the league. They will finish 6 and 5. But hey, it is better than 5 and 6...

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

I see you back up your opinion by framing the parameters to fit it. Ash's last year was sub-par to his previous years at the same institution. Was that a trend or an aberration? You want to establish an Ash trend based on one year, but Choke gets 3 years to establish his? When the Griz beat Bozeman this year, is he still headed in the right direction?

 

[poorgriz]

Absolutely, not any question about the program direction.

2016: 4-7
2017: 5-6
2018: 7-4 (Possibly 6-5)
2019: 8 or 9 wins and deep playoff run

Upward trajectory with a very young an inexperience teams and brutal schedules. If Cats beat the griz on Saturday and sneak into the playoffs that will be icing on the cake. The fourth year of a complete culture and program shift is the most telling. Choate's teams are very physical and they play their asses off on every down until the final bell.

 

[MikeyGriz]

This is where I am as well. The previous coach had them in the playoffs regularly...ranked...and winning or close to winning the league. They will finish 6 and 5. But hey, it is better than 5 and 6...

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

I see you back up your opinion by framing the parameters to fit it. Ash's last year was sub-par to his previous years at the same institution. Was that a trend or an aberration? You want to establish an Ash trend based on one year, but Choke gets 3 years to establish his? When the Griz beat Bozeman this year, is he still headed in the right direction?

By the way, I'll beat you to the punch and confirm that no, I never played the game. I also did not stay in a Holiday Express last night or play a football player on tv.

 

[ranco]

It's taken Choate 3 years to essentially get back to where the program was when Ash left. The Cat's went 13 straight years with a winning record, 2002-14. Ash went 5-6 his last year.

So as a Griz fan, I agree that Choate is taking them in the right direction.

Wasn't year 2 of Choate already better than Ash's 5-6 and loss to Griz? Even year 1 was 4-7 with win over Griz might be considered a push.

I agree that for Cat fans a 4-7 record with a win over the Griz is better than a 5-6, 6-5, or even 7-4 season with a loss to the Griz.
Ash had one losing season in 9 years and we don't know how the Cat's would have done if Ash remained the coach. Outside of the Griz wins, Choate's teams have no quality wins. Based on this, I can't say they are headed in the right direction (unless right is being mediocre). If they were to beat the Griz on Saturday, I would agree with you, but I don't think that's going to happen - barring a Portland State type performance.

 

[PlayerRep]

This is where I am as well. The previous coach had them in the playoffs regularly...ranked...and winning or close to winning the league. They will finish 6 and 5. But hey, it is better than 5 and 6...

In the last 3 years, Ash was 5-6 in his last season, lost 3 times in a row to the Griz, and made the playoffs once.

In case anyone cares about the facts. 6-4 with a chance to beat the Griz (for the 3d year in a row) and make the playoffs, seems like an upward trend from 5-6 and losing to the Griz, to me.

I see you back up your opinion by framing the parameters to fit it. Ash's last year was sub-par to his previous years at the same institution. Was that a trend or an aberration? You want to establish an Ash trend based on one year, but Choke gets 3 years to establish his? When the Griz beat Bozeman this year, is he still headed in the right direction?

You want to ignore reality. Look at what the Cat posters are saying. They know their program better than you and I do. They all seem to be saying the Choate is an improvement over Ash.

Having 2 bad years in 3, losing to the Griz several times, and losing control of the locker room (see Cat comments), is a trend.

 

[PolsonGrizFan]

He is or was weak on academic emphasis, which attributed to screwing up this whole season. 6 -5