Interesting Stats

[grizzlyjournal]

Montana currently ranks about 250th in the NCAA in offensive efficiency. I would suspect the conference season a is bit better, but this team is less efficient offensively than it was at any point last year. If you watch flow chart of games, it frankly isn't common (even in conference play) for the team to go through extended droughts of scoring.

We frankly don't score that easily, and do depend as to what was alluded to earlier, high frequency or high volume shooting on the offense. Our true shooting percentage is middle to lower end as well. Meaning that we take a lot of shots, minus Breunig, to get our points. Both Weber State and Eastern Washington are miles ahead of us in effeciency.

With the difficult non-conference schedule, we are I think better defenders than had we not play the non-conference schedule. This is where that uber athleticism on the perimeter helps and will only get better as Dunn works himself into more consistent action. We don't necessarily play better defense than anyone else in the conference, because really no one in the conference is 'elite' defensively. What we have done rather effectively over the course of the year is to limit not only shots, but makes. When teams shoot, they score, but we are in the top 100 nationally both in shots attempted but also makes.

This has been the saving grace for this team all year. We don't force a bunch of turnovers, but for whatever reason this team has been able to limit other teams ability to get cheap and easy baskets in any amount of frequency. In our loses against comparatives its has been the ineffiency on offense that has cost us.

I guess the point is, this is largely reflective of the personnel we have seen run out there for much of the year. This isn't the best team we have had in a few years, but they grind their way to victories.

Good observations. Kenpom stats back you up: Montana is 242 in the nation in offensive efficiency, and 132 in effective FG percentage. But your defensive efficiency ranks 98th in the country, and you are holding opponents to 49.1 effective field goal percentage (145th in the nation, and .6 below the national average).

I'm surprised how slow your tempo is, given all the perimeter talent you have. The Griz are one of the slowest teams in the nation --- 313 in adjusted tempo. I'm assuming that will change considerably next year, when Breunig is gone.

This two-comment post describes the current state of Griz hoops quite well! The obvious Griz challenge is to shoot a better perimeter percentage. However, I believe the problem is more critical in the high post (think Matthias Ward) of the traditional Griz Hi-Lo scheme, where the defense this year has been solid but points have been hard to come by. There were hints Saturday that Montana may try to counter that with a different offensive scheme.

P. S. Appreciate your perceptions, Bengal Visitor. It's quite interesting to engage in lively, yet productive basketball debate with Wildcat & Bengals and Hornet fans (when Sacstatesman joIns) without it degenerating into the chaos that often ensues on the pigskin side of the board.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Look Potomac. You stick with your stats and I'll do mine, but pls don't try to tell me yours are better than mine. I know what I'm posting and why.

There's no need to get upset & take it personally (or drag it into other threads like you're trying to do) if someone offers up a different set of statistics to compare teams in the conference where there's less variation in schedule strengths.

It's not just a slight difference either in non-conference schedule strengths. The Griz have played the 23rd (at the moment, likely to go up) toughest non-conference schedule in ALL of D1 basketball while the majority of Big Sky teams haven't even cracked the top 200. Hell, only 3 have cracked the top half (175 or better) of D1 for non conference SOS!

1. 5 - Northern Arizona
   23 - Montana
   145 - Idaho
   ----
   189 - Weber
   190 - Southern Utah
   222 - Montana State
   234 - Northern Colorado
   257 - North Dakota
   261 - Eastern Washington
   306 - Idaho State
   307 - Portland State
   326 - Sacramento State

Quite the difference in non-conference strength of schedule isn't it? That's why I posted the conference only stats & rankings. Of course those aren't perfect either considering we are only 8 games into the conference season, but they are what's usually going to be used when ranking teams of the same conference since the strengths of schedules will be much more similar.

I know the Griz played 3 NAIA teams before the conference season.

So did a few other Big Sky teams. Most played 2. You know what set of stats those games don't count in? The conference only stats. Sounds like that's another good argument for using conference only stats when comparing teams in the same conference doesn't it? :mrgreen:

let me ask you some questions. Do you think WW's 3-pt stats improved from about 20% to 53% primarily as a result of the competition?

I think part of it is competition. Part of it of course is also the newer Griz players becoming more and more comfortable in the system that DeCuire runs and adjusting to the D1 game. Shooters go through slumps occasionally too, as many Griz players were doing earlier in the year it seemed when facing teams such as Kansas and Washington on the big stage.

Do you think Jack Lopez had several better games, in fact one or more great games, due to lesser competition?

Actually..yes... that along with getting more playing time. More playing time = more opportunity to score. He's a 3 being forced to play in the post mostly and doing a pretty good job at it. He matches up a lot better with the 4s at the Big Sky level than he would against 4s at places like Kansas. He's a good defender, can score (a bit streaky) and has come a long way. Glad the Griz have him!

Do you think the Griz free throw shooting percentage improved by playing lesser conference competition?

I want you to do me a favor... Ask any player about pressure faced when shooting FT's in front of a 16000+ crowd at Allen Fieldhouse @Kansas or a packed McCarthey Athletic Center @Gonzaga vs shooting free throws in front of 34 people at Centrum Arena in Southern Utah. Which do you think is more difficult?

Do you think WW's steal numbers went down drastically due to the lesser conference competition?

The Griz as a team also average more steals per game in conference than they did non-conference. Some of that is level of competition yes. Also, that's 1 stat of Wright's that has gone down...however his scoring has gone up, his assists have gone up, his assist/turnover ratio has gone up, his shooting percentage has gone up, etc etc... Some of that is level of competition. Some of that (like I said earlier) is him becoming more comfortable in DeCuire's system and adjusting to the D1 game. DeCuire has even mentioned similar things in post game shows and pre game shows.

 

[PlayerRep]

Look Potomac. You stick with your stats and I'll do mine, but pls don't try to tell me yours are better than mine. I know what I'm posting and why.

There's no need to get upset & take it personally (or drag it into other threads like you're trying to do) if someone offers up a different set of statistics to compare teams in the conference where there's less variation in schedule strengths.

It's not just a slight difference either in non-conference schedule strengths. The Griz have played the 23rd (at the moment, likely to go up) toughest non-conference schedule in ALL of D1 basketball while the majority of Big Sky teams haven't even cracked the top 200. Hell, only 3 have cracked the top half (175 or better) of D1 for non conference SOS!

1. 5 - Northern Arizona
   23 - Montana
   145 - Idaho
   ----
   189 - Weber
   190 - Southern Utah
   222 - Montana State
   234 - Northern Colorado
   257 - North Dakota
   261 - Eastern Washington
   306 - Idaho State
   307 - Portland State
   326 - Sacramento State

Quite the difference in non-conference strength of schedule isn't it? That's why I posted the conference only stats & rankings. Of course those aren't perfect either considering we are only 8 games into the conference season, but they are what's usually going to be used when ranking teams of the same conference since the strengths of schedules will be much more similar.

I know the Griz played 3 NAIA teams before the conference season.

So did a few other Big Sky teams. Most played 2. You know what set of stats those games don't count in? The conference only stats. Sounds like that's another good argument for using conference only stats when comparing teams in the same conference doesn't it? :mrgreen:

let me ask you some questions. Do you think WW's 3-pt stats improved from about 20% to 53% primarily as a result of the competition?

I think part of it is competition. Part of it of course is also the newer Griz players becoming more and more comfortable in the system that DeCuire runs and adjusting to the D1 game. Shooters go through slumps occasionally too, as many Griz players were doing earlier in the year it seemed when facing teams such as Kansas and Washington on the big stage.

Do you think Jack Lopez had several better games, in fact one or more great games, due to lesser competition?

Actually..yes... that along with getting more playing time. More playing time = more opportunity to score. He's a 3 being forced to play in the post mostly and doing a pretty good job at it. He matches up a lot better with the 4s at the Big Sky level than he would against 4s at places like Kansas. He's a good defender, can score (a bit streaky) and has come a long way. Glad the Griz have him!

Do you think the Griz free throw shooting percentage improved by playing lesser conference competition?

I want you to do me a favor... Ask any player about pressure faced when shooting FT's in front of a 16000+ crowd at Allen Fieldhouse @Kansas or a packed McCarthey Athletic Center @Gonzaga vs shooting free throws in front of 34 people at Centrum Arena in Southern Utah. Which do you think is more difficult?

Do you think WW's steal numbers went down drastically due to the lesser conference competition?

The Griz as a team also average more steals per game in conference than they did non-conference. Some of that is level of competition yes. Also, that's 1 stat of Wright's that has gone down...however his scoring has gone up, his assists have gone up, his assist/turnover ratio has gone up, his shooting percentage has gone up, etc etc... Some of that is level of competition. Some of that (like I said earlier) is him becoming more comfortable in DeCuire's system and adjusting to the D1 game. DeCuire has even mentioned similar things in post game shows and pre game shows.

I disagree with about half of what you said. If you're going to keep posting and picking, then so am I. Regarding free throws, when one team is getting blown out, the home crowd often quiets down and there aren't tons of people screaming during free throws. I played sports in front of 60,000 and on essentially national tv. It's fun, but it's not overly hard. It's what good and competitive players do. My college basketball friends usually said that they performed better in front of big crowds. The crowds inspired and focused them.

 

[EverettGriz]

PR, Poto is flat out kicking your ass in this thread. Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but if it were me, I'd drop the laptop and slowly back away.

 

[PlayerRep]

PR, Poto is flat out kicking your ass in this thread. Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but if it were me, I'd drop the laptop and slowly back away.

Helpful comment, grizindabox. It adds greatly to the basketball board.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Look Potomac. You stick with your stats and I'll do mine, but pls don't try to tell me yours are better than mine. I know what I'm posting and why.

There's no need to get upset & take it personally (or drag it into other threads like you're trying to do) if someone offers up a different set of statistics to compare teams in the conference where there's less variation in schedule strengths.

It's not just a slight difference either in non-conference schedule strengths. The Griz have played the 23rd (at the moment, likely to go up) toughest non-conference schedule in ALL of D1 basketball while the majority of Big Sky teams haven't even cracked the top 200. Hell, only 3 have cracked the top half (175 or better) of D1 for non conference SOS!

1. 5 - Northern Arizona
   23 - Montana
   145 - Idaho
   ----
   189 - Weber
   190 - Southern Utah
   222 - Montana State
   234 - Northern Colorado
   257 - North Dakota
   261 - Eastern Washington
   306 - Idaho State
   307 - Portland State
   326 - Sacramento State

Quite the difference in non-conference strength of schedule isn't it? That's why I posted the conference only stats & rankings. Of course those aren't perfect either considering we are only 8 games into the conference season, but they are what's usually going to be used when ranking teams of the same conference since the strengths of schedules will be much more similar.

I know the Griz played 3 NAIA teams before the conference season.

So did a few other Big Sky teams. Most played 2. You know what set of stats those games don't count in? The conference only stats. Sounds like that's another good argument for using conference only stats when comparing teams in the same conference doesn't it? :mrgreen:

let me ask you some questions. Do you think WW's 3-pt stats improved from about 20% to 53% primarily as a result of the competition?

I think part of it is competition. Part of it of course is also the newer Griz players becoming more and more comfortable in the system that DeCuire runs and adjusting to the D1 game. Shooters go through slumps occasionally too, as many Griz players were doing earlier in the year it seemed when facing teams such as Kansas and Washington on the big stage.

Do you think Jack Lopez had several better games, in fact one or more great games, due to lesser competition?

Actually..yes... that along with getting more playing time. More playing time = more opportunity to score. He's a 3 being forced to play in the post mostly and doing a pretty good job at it. He matches up a lot better with the 4s at the Big Sky level than he would against 4s at places like Kansas. He's a good defender, can score (a bit streaky) and has come a long way. Glad the Griz have him!

Do you think the Griz free throw shooting percentage improved by playing lesser conference competition?

I want you to do me a favor... Ask any player about pressure faced when shooting FT's in front of a 16000+ crowd at Allen Fieldhouse @Kansas or a packed McCarthey Athletic Center @Gonzaga vs shooting free throws in front of 34 people at Centrum Arena in Southern Utah. Which do you think is more difficult?

Do you think WW's steal numbers went down drastically due to the lesser conference competition?

The Griz as a team also average more steals per game in conference than they did non-conference. Some of that is level of competition yes. Also, that's 1 stat of Wright's that has gone down...however his scoring has gone up, his assists have gone up, his assist/turnover ratio has gone up, his shooting percentage has gone up, etc etc... Some of that is level of competition. Some of that (like I said earlier) is him becoming more comfortable in DeCuire's system and adjusting to the D1 game. DeCuire has even mentioned similar things in post game shows and pre game shows.

I'm not taking sides in this debate (which I can't fully understand anyway!). But, I really like your point-by-point analysis of the Griz herein, Potomac!

(I admit I cannot analyze college basketball as a player, since I didn't even make the final varsity cut at my h.s. So I became a basketball beat writer.)

There is obviously much more to on-court basketball success than raw talent.

 

[PlayerRep]

Look Potomac. You stick with your stats and I'll do mine, but pls don't try to tell me yours are better than mine. I know what I'm posting and why.

There's no need to get upset & take it personally (or drag it into other threads like you're trying to do) if someone offers up a different set of statistics to compare teams in the conference where there's less variation in schedule strengths.

It's not just a slight difference either in non-conference schedule strengths. The Griz have played the 23rd (at the moment, likely to go up) toughest non-conference schedule in ALL of D1 basketball while the majority of Big Sky teams haven't even cracked the top 200. Hell, only 3 have cracked the top half (175 or better) of D1 for non conference SOS!

1. 5 - Northern Arizona
   23 - Montana
   145 - Idaho
   ----
   189 - Weber
   190 - Southern Utah
   222 - Montana State
   234 - Northern Colorado
   257 - North Dakota
   261 - Eastern Washington
   306 - Idaho State
   307 - Portland State
   326 - Sacramento State

Quite the difference in non-conference strength of schedule isn't it? That's why I posted the conference only stats & rankings. Of course those aren't perfect either considering we are only 8 games into the conference season, but they are what's usually going to be used when ranking teams of the same conference since the strengths of schedules will be much more similar.

I know the Griz played 3 NAIA teams before the conference season.

So did a few other Big Sky teams. Most played 2. You know what set of stats those games don't count in? The conference only stats. Sounds like that's another good argument for using conference only stats when comparing teams in the same conference doesn't it? :mrgreen:

let me ask you some questions. Do you think WW's 3-pt stats improved from about 20% to 53% primarily as a result of the competition?

I think part of it is competition. Part of it of course is also the newer Griz players becoming more and more comfortable in the system that DeCuire runs and adjusting to the D1 game. Shooters go through slumps occasionally too, as many Griz players were doing earlier in the year it seemed when facing teams such as Kansas and Washington on the big stage.

Do you think Jack Lopez had several better games, in fact one or more great games, due to lesser competition?

Actually..yes... that along with getting more playing time. More playing time = more opportunity to score. He's a 3 being forced to play in the post mostly and doing a pretty good job at it. He matches up a lot better with the 4s at the Big Sky level than he would against 4s at places like Kansas. He's a good defender, can score (a bit streaky) and has come a long way. Glad the Griz have him!

Do you think the Griz free throw shooting percentage improved by playing lesser conference competition?

I want you to do me a favor... Ask any player about pressure faced when shooting FT's in front of a 16000+ crowd at Allen Fieldhouse @Kansas or a packed McCarthey Athletic Center @Gonzaga vs shooting free throws in front of 34 people at Centrum Arena in Southern Utah. Which do you think is more difficult?

Do you think WW's steal numbers went down drastically due to the lesser conference competition?

The Griz as a team also average more steals per game in conference than they did non-conference. Some of that is level of competition yes. Also, that's 1 stat of Wright's that has gone down...however his scoring has gone up, his assists have gone up, his assist/turnover ratio has gone up, his shooting percentage has gone up, etc etc... Some of that is level of competition. Some of that (like I said earlier) is him becoming more comfortable in DeCuire's system and adjusting to the D1 game. DeCuire has even mentioned similar things in post game shows and pre game shows.

The topic was "interesting" stats. You are missing the point of the thread. Strength of schedule has nothing to do with what I posted. The idea was to post stats of all games, not conference games. The season stats are the season stats, no matter what you try to say.

You argued that UM had played a great and tough schedule, but 3 NAIA games indicates that some of the UM's pre-season schedule wasn't tough which allowed UM to inflate stats a bit to offset stats in top games. Yes, UM played several tough/top teams.

So, regarding WW's 20 to 53% difference in 3-pt shooting, I take it that you have no answer, and you must agree that your general point makes no sense. There is no competitive explanation for WW's great improvement in 3-pt stats.

No, additional playing time by Lopez didn't result in his several games, especially one, with huge scoring and great shooting. He started multiple games and played alot starting in late Dec, but only had good offensive production in several. The point was his scoring; not his defense. Your explanation makes no sense.

I answered the free throw shooting point earlier. Strong competitors learn to shoot free throws under any noise or distraction situations. In fact, they thrive on pressure situations. Shooting free throws is tougher for some when the game is on the line, not when it's noisy. Your comment tells me that you never played sports at a high level. You don't understand how strong competitors compete.

So, I see that you have zero explanation, consistent with your lower competition theory, as to why WW's steals have gone down significantly.

 

[PlayerRep]

Look Potomac. You stick with your stats and I'll do mine, but pls don't try to tell me yours are better than mine. I know what I'm posting and why.

There's no need to get upset & take it personally (or drag it into other threads like you're trying to do) if someone offers up a different set of statistics to compare teams in the conference where there's less variation in schedule strengths.

It's not just a slight difference either in non-conference schedule strengths. The Griz have played the 23rd (at the moment, likely to go up) toughest non-conference schedule in ALL of D1 basketball while the majority of Big Sky teams haven't even cracked the top 200. Hell, only 3 have cracked the top half (175 or better) of D1 for non conference SOS!

1. 5 - Northern Arizona
   23 - Montana
   145 - Idaho
   ----
   189 - Weber
   190 - Southern Utah
   222 - Montana State
   234 - Northern Colorado
   257 - North Dakota
   261 - Eastern Washington
   306 - Idaho State
   307 - Portland State
   326 - Sacramento State

Quite the difference in non-conference strength of schedule isn't it? That's why I posted the conference only stats & rankings. Of course those aren't perfect either considering we are only 8 games into the conference season, but they are what's usually going to be used when ranking teams of the same conference since the strengths of schedules will be much more similar.

I know the Griz played 3 NAIA teams before the conference season.

So did a few other Big Sky teams. Most played 2. You know what set of stats those games don't count in? The conference only stats. Sounds like that's another good argument for using conference only stats when comparing teams in the same conference doesn't it? :mrgreen:

let me ask you some questions. Do you think WW's 3-pt stats improved from about 20% to 53% primarily as a result of the competition?

I think part of it is competition. Part of it of course is also the newer Griz players becoming more and more comfortable in the system that DeCuire runs and adjusting to the D1 game. Shooters go through slumps occasionally too, as many Griz players were doing earlier in the year it seemed when facing teams such as Kansas and Washington on the big stage.

Do you think Jack Lopez had several better games, in fact one or more great games, due to lesser competition?

Actually..yes... that along with getting more playing time. More playing time = more opportunity to score. He's a 3 being forced to play in the post mostly and doing a pretty good job at it. He matches up a lot better with the 4s at the Big Sky level than he would against 4s at places like Kansas. He's a good defender, can score (a bit streaky) and has come a long way. Glad the Griz have him!

Do you think the Griz free throw shooting percentage improved by playing lesser conference competition?

I want you to do me a favor... Ask any player about pressure faced when shooting FT's in front of a 16000+ crowd at Allen Fieldhouse @Kansas or a packed McCarthey Athletic Center @Gonzaga vs shooting free throws in front of 34 people at Centrum Arena in Southern Utah. Which do you think is more difficult?

Do you think WW's steal numbers went down drastically due to the lesser conference competition?

The Griz as a team also average more steals per game in conference than they did non-conference. Some of that is level of competition yes. Also, that's 1 stat of Wright's that has gone down...however his scoring has gone up, his assists have gone up, his assist/turnover ratio has gone up, his shooting percentage has gone up, etc etc... Some of that is level of competition. Some of that (like I said earlier) is him becoming more comfortable in DeCuire's system and adjusting to the D1 game. DeCuire has even mentioned similar things in post game shows and pre game shows.

I'm not taking sides in this debate (which I can't fully understand anyway!). But, I really like your point-by-point analysis of the Griz herein, Potomac!

(I admit I cannot analyze college basketball as a player, since I didn't even make the final varsity cut at my h.s. So I became a basketball beat writer.)

There is obviously much more to on-court basketball success than raw talent.

Part of the reason you can't understand some of the debate is because a number of Potomac's comments make little or no sense. No one understands them.

 

[EverettGriz]

PR, Poto is flat out kicking your ass in this thread. Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but if it were me, I'd drop the laptop and slowly back away.

Helpful comment, grizindabox. It adds greatly to the basketball board.

What?

 

[EverettGriz]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

 

[Potomac Griz]

Regarding free throws, when one team is getting blown out, the home crowd often quiets down and there aren't tons of people screaming during free throws.

Do you watch much college basketball? Besides it always being more difficult on the road, when you're playing against the top teams (like Kansas and Gonzaga for example) it wouldn't matter if they were up 103 - 3. The opposing crowd (especially the student section) would still be all over the other team non-stop. Sure that may not be the case in front of 900 people at a Big Sky venue but it's certainly the case in front of the larger crowds at the places the Griz traveled in the non-conference season. Anyone who seriously follows college basketball would know that.

Besides... you do realize we weren't "blown out" by Gonzaga right (one of the games I used as an example)? Or did you not even watch that game? :roll:

My college basketball friends usually said that they performed better in front of big crowds. The crowds inspired and focused them.

On the road too? Huh..interesting. I guess that's why they call it the home field (or court) disadvantage right? Oh...wait...they don't call it that...

Part of the reason you can't understand some of the debate is because a number of Potomac's comments make little or no sense. No one understands them.

I'm sorry that you don't possess the mental capacity to understand three syllable words or simple statistics PR. I'll try to take that into consideration next time I reply to you, but for now hopefully someone will simplify this reply for you so those two brain cells furiously rubbing themselves together in your head don't get tired out & confused.

If the college basketball world followed your version of "statistics" they would likely be awarding the player of the year award to James Daniel from Howard University. Luckily, they aren't all statistically challenged, so they'll also look at things such as strength of schedule when determining who is deserving of the player of the year award. Meanwhile you'll continue to ignore the strength of schedule difference in the non-conference and try to make whatever point it is you're trying to make.

Sorry to tell you though, but strength of schedule matters. That's why when comparing teams in the same conference who have faced vastly different non-conference opponents it's more meaningful to look at the conference statistics (where the SOS is similar) than at the overall statistics. This is especially true when a couple teams have played brutal non-conference schedules (the Griz and NAU) while the large majority have played schedules that would make most serious BB fans vomit up their lunch...and possibly breakfast.

Team A plays Incarnate Word
Team B plays Kansas

Should we compare stats and use those stats to show that Team A is superior to Team B because they had more impressive stats against Incarnate Word than Team B did against Kansas? No, that would be ridiculous. It would appear though that in your world of stats that comparison is perfectly reasonable!

Is any of this starting to sink in yet? No? Well then... I'll let you go back to your own private world of "PR statistics." Have fun with that! :thumb:

(EDIT: Removed some overly snarky stuff)

 

[Potomac Griz]

I'm not taking sides in this debate (which I can't fully understand anyway!). But, I really like your point-by-point analysis of the Griz herein, Potomac!

(I admit I cannot analyze college basketball as a player, since I didn't even make the final varsity cut at my h.s. So I became a basketball beat writer.)

There is obviously much more to on-court basketball success than raw talent.

Totally agree. There's a lot more to the game than raw talent. If there wasn't PSU would likely be a hell of a lot better than 5-10 against D1 teams. They have a ton of talent, just haven't quite figured out how to play together yet (as DeCuire mentioned in a pre-game show).

The mental aspect of it plays a huge part as does the ability of the coaching staff to bring the team together and buy in to what the coaching staff wants to do. We're seeing a good number of our young guys quickly adapt to the D1 level, the physicality of it, and the mental side of it which is a great thing as well as getting used to DeCuire's system. I'm very impressed how quickly Oguine seems to have adapted to it. Putting up 17 against Boise (one of the top teams in the MWC), 22 against Washington, and playing well so far in conference is a great sign of things to come I think for him.

Same goes for Wright. Often JC players take quite a while to adapt and become effective. I forget what coach it was that said if you can have a JC player contributing by conference season that's a great sign. Well, Wright has been contributing since day 1!

Hell... Anthony Johnson didn't crack the starting lineup until mid-ish December in his first year. Virgil Matthews spent the majority of his junior year (much to my dismay) coming off the bench & sharing minutes with Lynch (until late February after Lynch hurt his hand). Wright has been tossed into the starting role immediately and done very well. That's damn impressive!

This Griz team is coming together nicely as the conference season progresses. Those games against top competition (while not always pretty) are going to pay off in the long run I think. The Griz aren't going to face any teams like Gonzaga (who they damn near beat) or Kansas in the Big Sky. Nor are they going to face an atmosphere close to playing @Gonzaga or @Kansas.

Can't wait for the game @MSU this Saturday. Hope we can pick up another road win against a young (yet much better than last year) cat team!

 

[Grizfan-24]

Montana currently ranks about 250th in the NCAA in offensive efficiency. I would suspect the conference season a is bit better, but this team is less efficient offensively than it was at any point last year. If you watch flow chart of games, it frankly isn't common (even in conference play) for the team to go through extended droughts of scoring.

We frankly don't score that easily, and do depend as to what was alluded to earlier, high frequency or high volume shooting on the offense. Our true shooting percentage is middle to lower end as well. Meaning that we take a lot of shots, minus Breunig, to get our points. Both Weber State and Eastern Washington are miles ahead of us in effeciency.

With the difficult non-conference schedule, we are I think better defenders than had we not play the non-conference schedule. This is where that uber athleticism on the perimeter helps and will only get better as Dunn works himself into more consistent action. We don't necessarily play better defense than anyone else in the conference, because really no one in the conference is 'elite' defensively. What we have done rather effectively over the course of the year is to limit not only shots, but makes. When teams shoot, they score, but we are in the top 100 nationally both in shots attempted but also makes.

This has been the saving grace for this team all year. We don't force a bunch of turnovers, but for whatever reason this team has been able to limit other teams ability to get cheap and easy baskets in any amount of frequency. In our loses against comparatives its has been the ineffiency on offense that has cost us.

I guess the point is, this is largely reflective of the personnel we have seen run out there for much of the year. This isn't the best team we have had in a few years, but they grind their way to victories.

Good observations. Kenpom stats back you up: Montana is 242 in the nation in offensive efficiency, and 132 in effective FG percentage. But your defensive efficiency ranks 98th in the country, and you are holding opponents to 49.1 effective field goal percentage (145th in the nation, and .6 below the national average).

I'm surprised how slow your tempo is, given all the perimeter talent you have. The Griz are one of the slowest teams in the nation --- 313 in adjusted tempo. I'm assuming that will change considerably next year, when Breunig is gone.

First I am an advanced metrics guy. I think they tell a little bit more about nuance of basketball. I like them because like in baseball, you get an idea as to total worth of both individuals but also how teams win or lose games.

That adjusted tempo statistic is interesting and also telling. Does sort of explain our scoring rate, but also what we give up defensively. There is no efficiency on offense and frankly erratic most of the time. A person would think that with a team full of volume shooters, you would want to get more touches offensively.

This team though has won its games on the defensive end. Not the sexiest defensive team I have seen, a penchant of giving up late shot clock baskets, but teams have to work. We aren't Bobby Dye teams from the late 80's or even Wisconsin/Virginia, but teams do have to work.

The last three games (UND, UI, EWU) have regressed back to the mean in regards to our efficiency on offense. I think that is why those games played out the way the did. Putrid offensively against UI, dormant most of hte game against UND and EWU was fits and starts. Blame it on the youth, or the lack of a true secondary scoring option, but I think it rears its ugly head a few more times this year.

Gfeller hasn't been at all consistent, and I think we have had to depend too much on Walter Wright as a scoring threat. I watched him at Snow last year and I never envisioned him being the scorer that he is. For this team to emerge, there needs to be a third option and frankly it is a flip of a coin at this point who that is any given night. To that end and maybe it is one of the reasons we don't play as fast. The offense pretty much has had to go through Breunig. Whether that is philosophical or by product, the outcome is an offense that has a high variance for outcomes on a given night.

 

[PlayerRep]

Regarding free throws, when one team is getting blown out, the home crowd often quiets down and there aren't tons of people screaming during free throws.

Do you watch much college basketball? Besides it always being more difficult on the road, when you're playing against the top teams (like Kansas and Gonzaga for example) it wouldn't matter if they were up 103 - 3. The opposing crowd (especially the student section) would still be all over the other team non-stop. Sure that may not be the case in front of 900 people at a Big Sky venue but it's certainly the case in front of the larger crowds at the places the Griz traveled in the non-conference season. Anyone who seriously follows college basketball would know that.

Besides... you do realize we weren't "blown out" by Gonzaga right (one of the games I used as an example)? Or did you not even watch that game? :roll:

My college basketball friends usually said that they performed better in front of big crowds. The crowds inspired and focused them.

On the road too? Huh..interesting. I guess that's why they call it the home field (or court) disadvantage right? Oh...wait...they don't call it that...

Part of the reason you can't understand some of the debate is because a number of Potomac's comments make little or no sense. No one understands them.

I'm sorry that you don't possess the mental capacity to understand three syllable words or simple statistics PR. I'll try to take that into consideration next time I reply to you, but for now hopefully someone will simplify this reply for you so those two brain cells furiously rubbing themselves together in your head don't get tired out & confused.

If the college basketball world followed your version of "statistics" they would likely be awarding the player of the year award to James Daniel from Howard University. Luckily, they aren't all statistically challenged, so they'll also look at things such as strength of schedule when determining who is deserving of the player of the year award. Meanwhile you'll continue to ignore the strength of schedule difference in the non-conference and try to make whatever point it is you're trying to make.

Sorry to tell you though, but strength of schedule matters. That's why when comparing teams in the same conference who have faced vastly different non-conference opponents it's more meaningful to look at the conference statistics (where the SOS is similar) than at the overall statistics. This is especially true when a couple teams have played brutal non-conference schedules (the Griz and NAU) while the large majority have played schedules that would make most serious BB fans vomit up their lunch...and possibly breakfast.

Team A plays Incarnate Word
Team B plays Kansas

Should we compare stats and use those stats to show that Team A is superior to Team B because they had more impressive stats against Incarnate Word than Team B did against Kansas? No, that would be ridiculous. It would appear though that in your world of stats that comparison is perfectly reasonable!

Is any of this starting to sink in yet? No? Well then... I'll let you go back to your own private world of "PR statistics." Have fun with that! :thumb:

(EDIT: Removed some overly snarky stuff)

Yes, Potomac, I watch alot of college basketball, I played high school basketball (and played 2 college sports), my father-in-law was a college basketball head coach and is in the MT coaches hall of fame, a number of people in my wife's and my family are or were basketball coaches, and a number of my friends are or were college basketball coaches, have attended all of the UM appearances in the ncaa tourney in recent history, have attended the Big Sky tourney out of Missoula several times, attended every single game in the men's and women's conference tournies the last 2 times when both tournies were in Missoula, have been to the Final Four (the first time with my college coaching friends, which allowed me to sit and hang with the many coaches who attend the tourney). What are your credentials? I also watch from my seats in the front row--men's and women's basketball. Do you come to games? Do you sit where you can see the games? Do you know the coaches?

The Griz have played only one game this year against a huge crowd, Kansas. Regarding Gonzaga, which you bring up, do you realize that UM's free three percentage was 73%, which is better than it's season and conference average?

I said this in an early post: "As for the question about competition, yes, the Griz stats have likely improved by not having to play the several very good teams they played". I know you want to ignore that and argue about things that fit your posting agenda, but perhaps you are the one who needs to learn how to read.

As for your comments about comparisons, you keep wanting to discuss or argue something that my initial post said nothing about. I merely posted season stats, from the Big Sky website, and called them "interesting". I just lifted them from the site. I made no comment about any comparison, and made no point (other than they were interesting). If you have a gripe about season stats, call the Big Sky commissioner (and every other source of stats in the country, including the ncaa and espn), and tell them that you don't think they should compile or post season stats--apparently because you think other stats are better.

And, Potomac, I'd be happy to compare mental capacities, education, IQ, knowledge of sports, etc. anytime--as you seem to want to compare those stats too.

 

[PlayerRep]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

No, I tend only to go back after posters who have started hammering or picking at me first, or posters whom I believe unduly hammer players and coaches.

Honest question for you. Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?

 

[Mousegriz]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

No, I tend only to go back after posters who have started hammering or picking at me first, or posters whom I believe unduly hammer players and coaches.

Honest question for you. Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?

4:02 and 4:05 AM! Wow!

 

[EverettGriz]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

No, I tend only to go back after posters who have started hammering or picking at me first, or posters whom I believe unduly hammer players and coaches.

Honest question for you. Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?

4:02 and 4:05 AM! Wow!

PR has many issues; insomnia is one of the minor ones.

 

[EverettGriz]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

No, I tend only to go back after posters who have started hammering or picking at me first, or posters whom I believe unduly hammer players and coaches.

Honest question for you. Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?

Well, you're either lying or mistaken, because Poto did NOT "hammer" or "pick" on you first. He simply made what most of us agree was a more significant, relevant post when compared to yours. And of course your ridiculously gigantic ego couldn't allow that, so you replied like a complete DB. Mind you, this is hardly uncharted territory for you.

Yes. While I have and make use of a sense of humor on the board, I also make many substantive posts. Telling the truth about the fcs and the bsc are included in those. Unlike you, seemingly, I'm capable of making critical analysis of things I like.

Have a nice day. Try to get some rest.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Based upon this thread's original premise... some "interesting stats" introduced by PlayerRep, I've found it to be quite enlightening for me overall. (I'm attempting to sidestep the odd personal rancor which I believe is counterproductive at best.)

The divergent statistical (not coaching; not talent; not shooting) analyses provide some predictive views:

Prompted by Potomac and Grizfan-24, I took a look at the Big Sky stats page and the KenPom stats, and concluded that, when I filtered to conference only games, I got a much better look at this team's strong & weak points and their chances (health permitting) over the next 6 weeks. (I had not previously looked at the KenPom conference only stats until reading 24's post)

Grizfan-24's advanced metric analysis seems VERY accurate. In brief, Montana will need better perimeter shooting (best if it comes from a wing), consistent scoring production from a third player (beyond MB and WW), the ability to produce offensively against zone D, and a reduction of the number or % of turnovers. This ignores challenges the Griz face against specific teams (Cats on Saturday will be a big one)... but IF or WHETHER or WHEN the Griz can score from the perimeter with more consistency is a hard one to predict with this team.

 

[PlayerRep]

Pr, honest question, no smack intended:

is it your objective to piss off each and every poster on the board -- including those who do nothing but post great information without ever stirring up any discontent -- by being a complete DB all the time?

No, I tend only to go back after posters who have started hammering or picking at me first, or posters whom I believe unduly hammer players and coaches.

Honest question for you. Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?

4:02 and 4:05 AM! Wow!

PR has many issues; insomnia is one of the minor ones.

Everett, this is a prime example of the reason I asked you the above question (Do you ever provide substantive information or analysis on basketball or football, or do you just made non-substantive posts, pick at other posters, and diss FCS and the Big Sky conference?). You had nothing of benefit to the board, you just snip away.

Oh, and I'm a great sleeper. Always have been. When flights depart at 5:40am, you need to get up early.