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I met with President Royce Engstrom
- Thread starter NativeGriz
- Start date
13thwarrior
Well-known member
in·cred·i·ble
[in-kred-uh-buh l] Show IPA
adjective
1.so extraordinary as to seem impossible: incredible speed. :shock:
2.not credible; hard to believe; unbelievable: The plot of the book is incredible.
Maybe he meant the latter of the two definitions, but in the context he used it in... "Houston, we have a problem."
Soooo, in other words.... He sits in his office thinking about how much power he has and who pissed him off lately :?
I would hate to see the result of a negative meeting :|
Not a problem before... What's changed... :roll:
Maybe some good ol' fashion C.O.M.M.U.N.I.C.A.T.I.O.N. would upgrade that feeling to something called a definitive answer... :lol:
Edit: Thanks Native for the report :thumb:
ALPHAGRIZ1 said:
Thats basically the truth, in a way. Truthfully there is no such thing as a true native american. Our native americans, the indians, migrated to North America from Asia via the Bering strait, much like the europeans did via the east coast. The Asians were just here a few hundred years earlier.
GrizPony
Well-known member
mtgriz said:
They changed the pre-existing criteria in order to be able to "hire" him. That may eventually come back to haunt the powers that be. He is very intelligent and comes from a great family that loves Missoula and respects Griz tradition. He alone is responsible for overturning a massive injustice. (think about it) I think Clay is our only hope at stopping the idiotic and incessant march of morons like the Williams and RE.
Washgrizfan1
Well-known member
The word is that Engstrom called Christian a day or so before he terminated O'Day and Pflugrad, to say that he had decided he was going to shut down Montana football for a year. Christian apparently told Engstrom "no", you are not doing that. Then Engstrom decided to get rid of O'Day and Pflugrad.
Apparently, the Johnson accuser's mother is a friend of Pat Williams' wife. Pat Williams and his wife apparently pressured Engstrom over the statements of Pflugrad in support of Johnson.
As Griz Pony indicated, Christian is apparently why Johnson has not been kicked out of school.
If Johnson gets out of the sexual assault thing well, it sounds like the Johnson family will be coming after the University of Montana in a big way.
Apparently, the Johnson accuser's mother is a friend of Pat Williams' wife. Pat Williams and his wife apparently pressured Engstrom over the statements of Pflugrad in support of Johnson.
As Griz Pony indicated, Christian is apparently why Johnson has not been kicked out of school.
If Johnson gets out of the sexual assault thing well, it sounds like the Johnson family will be coming after the University of Montana in a big way.
Copper Griz
Well-known member
Washgrizfan1 said:
I am by no means naive and understand every institution has some form of politics, but if there is a shred of truth to this post - then the U of M is in serious trouble. Rolls surely can't be such a moron without a backbone. Pat Williams pressured him and he buckled. Why? What did Pat do for Rolls or what was he going to do in the future? Essentially - all things point to Rolls not having 1) morals 2) critical thinking skills or 3) any leadership qualities. He would simply be a puppet. Maybe the BOR needs to start their own investigation concerning how this incident was handled. How many emails were exchanged between who. Do a little research on phone records. How about bringing in an investigator to start asking some questions?
Mods, please rename this the Drama Queen Thread. Thank you.
NativeGriz
Well-known member
I agree Copper and I heard most of the same stuff Washingtonfan1 posted.
I forgot to add, I did ask RE if he had considered or requested football to be dropped for one year and he stated "absolutely not" and it sounded like a confident no, but then I have heard from at least 5 people claiming he did request for FB to be dropped and CC said no.
To me Carol Williams relationship to the accuser's mother should have been public knowledge, but I dont know the law that well.
I heard the party scene among FB players was a huge concern and may have been part of the reason for firings. FB does seem to be targeted because they are ignoring a lot of other partying taking place in other sports. There was a fight involving BB players after leaving the bars with some local thugs and that is ignored, but you can bet if it had involved FB players, it would have been front page news.
Please ignore the following because I stand corrected, GF was not the reporter on this. So how does it feel to be misquoted GF. I was also advised the Missoulian took Coach Phlu's comments on JJ being a model citizen out of context.
The question from GF was: How does the team feel about having JJ back.
Coach P: They feel great to have him back. He is one of the team leaders etc. and he was a great kid/model citizen back in Oregon.
Next day Missoulian: Coach P calls JJ a model citizen.
Obviously that engraged a lot of people, including me at the time.
I forgot to add, I did ask RE if he had considered or requested football to be dropped for one year and he stated "absolutely not" and it sounded like a confident no, but then I have heard from at least 5 people claiming he did request for FB to be dropped and CC said no.
To me Carol Williams relationship to the accuser's mother should have been public knowledge, but I dont know the law that well.
I heard the party scene among FB players was a huge concern and may have been part of the reason for firings. FB does seem to be targeted because they are ignoring a lot of other partying taking place in other sports. There was a fight involving BB players after leaving the bars with some local thugs and that is ignored, but you can bet if it had involved FB players, it would have been front page news.
Please ignore the following because I stand corrected, GF was not the reporter on this. So how does it feel to be misquoted GF. I was also advised the Missoulian took Coach Phlu's comments on JJ being a model citizen out of context.
The question from GF was: How does the team feel about having JJ back.
Coach P: They feel great to have him back. He is one of the team leaders etc. and he was a great kid/model citizen back in Oregon.
Next day Missoulian: Coach P calls JJ a model citizen.
Obviously that engraged a lot of people, including me at the time.
NativeGriz said:
A few thoughts, I'm sure I will be in the minority on some.
I agree with WBTFG, you are all assuming Engstrom was completely open and truthful. It is possible that Engstrom recognized there was a football fan with slanted questions, pre-conceived opinions, and an agenda and thus didn't say much of anything substantial, just basic answers of which the questioner has added analysis and drawn some incredible conclusions.
The President at UM asked for football to be dropped or not held for a season? Give me a break. If anyone actually believes that, they are not able to rationally consider any of this or Engstrom's impact on this whole situation. It is amazing how much rumors that people hear around town turn in to solid fact on this board.
The Pat Williams thing...I have no doubt that Pat Williams has an opinion on all of this, and I have no doubt he shared it with Engstrom, but what leverage does Williams have over the UM President? He is one vote on the board, he has been out of Congress for years. AND, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, if Williams had so much power and sway over Engstrom, there is ZERO chance that Foley would have been hung out to dry. Their connections go back a long way in Montana politics.
Phlu's comments about JJ weren't taken out of context in the Missoulian because they were on video, on KPAX.
The rumor mill has taken so many leaps and assumptions on this because we all want someone to blame and fix it, and we refuse to believe that anyone in our beloved athletic department or coaching staff made any mistakes. In the absence of actual, proven facts, people should live by the rule that if something sounds way too outrageous or ridiculous to be true, it probably is. Did Engstrom make mistakes, I have no doubt that he did, and I think that is obvious. People don't know nearly as much about all of these issues as they think they do, yet others treat them as experts and then it is fact in egriz land.
grzz said:
While there may be an element of truth to some of what you said, I find it funny that you are jumping on people saying they are saying things they don't know to be true, and then you do the exact same thing. At least portions of what people have posted are accurate, but you, with no knowledge, are trying to undercut them with apparently no knowledge of the situation. If Pflu's statements on JJ's high moral character are on KPAX, go find them and link/post them. If you can prove that Pat Williams didn't have anything to do with the firings, prove it. Show us your evidence. Actually, we know you can't do that, because Williams did play a big role. Supposedly indicated to Engstrom that he would get Engstrom fired if he didn't take immediate action. Foley worked for Williams decades ago. Your comment on that subject is totally ridiculous.
You are the one who needs to come up with some facts.
NativeGriz
Well-known member
Grzz, I agree that RE was not going to answer a lot of questions truthfully, especially with me going in telling him I felt he had made some poor leadership decisions. If you saw my initial contact you would wonder how he ever opened his door to me. And as noted I also stated I intended to post his comments somewhere, though I did not mention egriz.
As for RE not being truthful-probably not entirely - I feel RE made an effort to be somewhat transparent in some areas. I am sure I missed the truth on some things, but not all his comments.
As for attempting to give up football for a year. Sorry man I disagree-a big part of me believes he did make that consideration and discussed the possibility openly with at least one person.
Foley and Williams friendship-today - I don't know for sure - I have a hunch, not so much any more.
As for KPAX, I don't have cable or sat. and where I live on Flathead, I do not get that channel, so I never saw the interview and trust you have your facts correct. And based on that, I won't repeat my earlier comments again unless I can prove otherwise.
I agree 90% on your last statement. I do believe there were mistakes, but not enough to fire people. And some real facts in regard to our previous AD. Presidents trophy, great national respect, strong grad rates and strong GPA among athletes. Good vision of budget with surplus funds. And the only reason we get from Main Hall for the firings-We want a change of leadership-Are you kidding me? And what are the results of our new leadership. First losing season in decades despite quality players that should have produced an 8-3 record at worst. Some real questions in how well the budget will be handled. Probably lawsuits. By the way, I believe Mr. Delaney and President Royce are both quality people of good character that want to great jobs. They really care and want to do the best job possible. But I do not believe either of them are operating in their sweet spot.
As for some outrageous stuff. Well I believe some things are still going to come out that will outrage some people.
As for RE not being truthful-probably not entirely - I feel RE made an effort to be somewhat transparent in some areas. I am sure I missed the truth on some things, but not all his comments.
As for attempting to give up football for a year. Sorry man I disagree-a big part of me believes he did make that consideration and discussed the possibility openly with at least one person.
Foley and Williams friendship-today - I don't know for sure - I have a hunch, not so much any more.
As for KPAX, I don't have cable or sat. and where I live on Flathead, I do not get that channel, so I never saw the interview and trust you have your facts correct. And based on that, I won't repeat my earlier comments again unless I can prove otherwise.
I agree 90% on your last statement. I do believe there were mistakes, but not enough to fire people. And some real facts in regard to our previous AD. Presidents trophy, great national respect, strong grad rates and strong GPA among athletes. Good vision of budget with surplus funds. And the only reason we get from Main Hall for the firings-We want a change of leadership-Are you kidding me? And what are the results of our new leadership. First losing season in decades despite quality players that should have produced an 8-3 record at worst. Some real questions in how well the budget will be handled. Probably lawsuits. By the way, I believe Mr. Delaney and President Royce are both quality people of good character that want to great jobs. They really care and want to do the best job possible. But I do not believe either of them are operating in their sweet spot.
As for some outrageous stuff. Well I believe some things are still going to come out that will outrage some people.
Of course Royce is correct. Everybody knows you can turn a football program off and on like the spigot at a picnic kegger... or the vital signs monitor of an ICU patient. EK looks dumber with every new revelation. He should keep to his March 2012 no comment/it's an internal matter policy.
Ossie Ardiles
Member
Reversing the polarity on your tin foil hats will make it much harder for the black helicopters to track you. Good luck.
IF...........May I repeat IF what some are saying is true that The William's have basically convicted JJ in they're own minds and due to a friendly relationship with Jane Does family decided to start causing havoc by removing JJ, firing Plugrad and putting the University at risk would cause Pat Williams some serious issues. No doubt IF that happens to be the case an issue with fiduciary responsiblity comes to mind. To put ones owns interest above the institution you are hired to represent is a breach in my mind. Thats why we have courts and JJ should be tried there before the hierarchy steps in. From all this one may conclude that it may be that Jane Doe may want to drop all this but is being "pressured" by her family and they're "friends" to see it through. Are JJ and Jane Doe being used to form policy? Mmmmm
I'm basing my statements from reading between all your lines.
I'm basing my statements from reading between all your lines.
IF there is litigation against the university, one good thing is that we'll get to see who said and did what--when the university and individuals have to produce all written information and communications, and people like Engstrom, Williams and his wife, and Christian (and others) are deposed under oath. Same with the Missoulian if they are ever sued, or if they would be witness or have information related to another lawsuit.
bluemarlin2
Well-known member
If finishing in 9th place is good enough then Montana football is dead!!! This president obviously just doesn't care at all about the athletics at the school. Sometimes athletics are too much and some times they are too little When you have a good balance then the school and the athletic programs feed off each other. You can't just do away with one and think it will enhance the other. Many people associated with the athletic programs also contribute to the academic programs. If they get put off by this type of attitude the whole school will suffer.
