• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

I had sorta bought into changing conf.s, but...

Griz Man

Well-known member
DONOR
after swallowing the pain of the defeat, the knee-jerk reaction of wanting to change something (anything), and then calming down, I think we're right where we belong:
1) regarding competition, the non-conference slates of the past few years (a spattering of Pac-10, WAC, WCC teams) is fine in terms of providing credibility for the NCAA seeding committee. We just weren't very good early in the year, unfortunately, as we slowly defined our identify post-Qvale. It's all about winning more of the non-conf. games we play, not getting more. Next year I think we will.
2)There are no consistent powerhouse D1 teams in any sport in the 12 least populated states (which are, in order of least people WY, VT, ND, AK, SD, DE, MT, RI, NH, ME, HI, and SD). So I think we just have to live with that reality, no matter our conference. The Grizz do very well considering their geographical fate.
3)Regarding the all-important issue of recruitment, a lot of it (esp. for the type of players we want) will depend on our coach, the team's "family" dynamics, the atmosphere of Dahlberg, and the draw of UM itself as a great place to get an education. We may not have a big city nearby, but for the right player, we can provide everything they need to have a great experience. If we can set UM apart from other public universities, that would be a huge recruiting draw.
4) Recruitment is so important that I'll also add that our blue-chip recruits know there's no chance they'll get stuck on the bench behind someone even more talented (as they could at a bigger program), and if they're very talented, they'll also know that they have a great shot at the Big Dance every year via the Big Sky's autobid. Some very good programs (and players) in the loaded conferences have a lesser chance of a making the Tourney than a very good Big Sky team.
5) The Wisconsin result had more to do with a couple key Grizz having off nights and the Badgers shooting very well/the Grizz playing uncharacteristically poor D than any complicated machinations involving RPI's and conference difficulty. I don't know about anyone else, but I felt kinda lucky we won the Eastern WA semifinal--we hadn't played so well in that one, either.

There's my two cents--sorry if a lot of it rehashes what has already been said, but kinda like in music, it's all been played before, in some variation or another!
 
The Ohio Valley Conference is historically weaker than the Big Sky, except for the past two years (with Morehead State and Murray State. Murray State went 31-1 and gained a #6 seed, then won their opening game and just missed the Sweet 16 in a tough game to Marquette.

Murray State (and Morehead before them) were able to recuit at least one player that should have been in a BCS conference. Montana needs to recruit WAC and WCC quality players that exceed expectations in their development.

On a sidenote, there is one school from a small state that is a power school in a sport. In hockey, UND, Boston College, and Michigan are the schools that kids look to as the premiere programs. The last three nights, there have been 15,000+ fans in the XCel Center in St Paul, with the majority of them UND fans. (With UND winning the WCHA tournament and an NCAA #1 seed.)
 
Grizz Man said:
2)There are no consistent powerhouse D1 teams in any sport in the 12 least populated states (which are, in order of least people WY, VT, ND, AK, SD, DE, MT, RI, NH, ME, HI, and SD). So I think we just have to live with that reality, no matter our conference. The Grizz do very well considering their geographical fate.

Wow. if THAT isn't a cold hard slap in the face by reality I don't know what is. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
Wow. if THAT isn't a cold hard slap in the face by reality I don't know what is.
Reality, yes, but I do believe we could be a mid-major force at times and, by the grace of God and Wayne Tinkle's apparent ability to recruit, someday make a sweet 16 run. We can get a #12 seed, win, and win again, by heck!

On a sidenote, there is one school from a small state that is a power school in a sport. In hockey, UND
Go Fighting Sioux! I had the pleasure of watching a game once, against Manitoba I believe (back in the 90's). Of course, there's the caveat that much of the U.S. doesn't play hockey, but hey, NHL is the real deal, so that's very cool for Grand Forks, ND. :clap: How many guys do you guys have in the big league? (I'd imagine a few, at least).

That last small state I listed was supposed to be ID, by the way (I listed SD twice.) I find that list interesting in that Wyoming is the only one of the small states with a team that would scare me in basketball most years, relative to the Grizz, but nearly all the states beginning right after that (Nebr. at 38, WV at 37, NV at 36, etc., do). I would have expected to find more exceptions in basketball. I guess there are years where the Grizz could match up well with teams from NV, MN, and CO, but I'm sure they'd still have an edge over time. In terms of athletics, WY had the right idea in having only one large university--less competition for in-state recruits.
 
If it was a game vs Manitoba, that was an exhibition (non NCAA). The Ralph really provides a tremendous atmosphere for most games - big time environment for a lower level DI school. UND has 16 former players in the NHL currently, including stars like Jonathon Toews, Zach Parise, TJ Oshie, Drew Stafford. Toews has an MVP, so that's rather telling in itself.

Montana does need to upgrade conferences, but the problem remains that everyone else continues to upgrade too.

Could see a WAC one day of:

Seattle
Idaho
Portland St
Montana
Montana St
Weber St (USU probably is gone)
Sac St (SJSU probably is gone)
Denver
UND
NDSU

In a conference like that, Seattle and Denver will really push the envelope for excellence in basketball.

Really think Griz fans are totally underestimating what UND will be bringing into the Big Sky: we'll likely win the first year in women's basketball, volleyball, and be highly competitive in football and men's basketball. Sioux fans get behind winners big time (see men's hockey) and most fans won't accept anything but excellence.
 
Really think Griz fans are totally underestimating what UND will be bringing into the Big Sky: we'll likely win the first year in women's basketball, volleyball, and be highly competitive in football and men's basketball

You had wins against us and South Dakota State this year--not too shabby! And I was damned impressed with NDSU's win of the FCS (I know they're not joining the Big Sky, but still, good things CAN come out of ND)! I'm guessing folks on this board won't be too excited about the WAC you envision. This whole conference topic is a red herring, in my opinion. Supposedly Weber and MT are the only decent Big Sky teams, but we both barely won our Big Sky semifinal games. In the recent past, Northern Ariz and Northern Colorado have had quality teams, and I don't see why they won't again. Sacramento State seems like they're improving. I can also remember not so long ago when Idaho State used to give us fits (and they thankfully beat Weber this year).

Consider Wyoming and Idaho. They've been in bigger conferences for many years now, and I can't see what it's done for them except all but eliminate any chance they have of winning a conference championship and the fun of a bid to the Big Dance. There is Gonzaga, but I would argue they've had two great coaches (Monson and Few). Great coaching--not landing in the right conference--wins NCAA tournament games and attracts quality recruits.

So I do agree that to the extent that the Big Sky is seen as just a stepping stone for coaches, that sucks. But we lost Krysto to the NBA, so hey, what are you gonna do. I don't see us ever getting into a top tier conf, therefore we'll always have to worry about being a coaching stopover. C'est la vie. Maybe Tinkle has learned from Krsto's difficulties (and in football, Hauck's)--there's something to be said for job security. Tinkle has a good thing going in Missoula, with current players and the atmosphere apparently drawing in others...
 
Idaho has such poor facilities in everything, that it is practically a miracle that they can even field a half-way legitimate basketball team. Wyoming is in a league over its head - it should drop down to the WAC.

Look at the Big Sky and who has good facilities and who has good programs:
Facility / Program
Montana - good good
Weber - good good
MSU - adequate adequate
ISU - poor poor
PSU - poor decent
Sac - poor poor
NAU - poor poor
UNC - adequate decent
EWU - adequate

The Big Sky has two programs with good facilities: and guess what? Those two programs are the Big Sky leaders.

The problem with the Big Sky is that it has too many programs that have atrocious facilities for basketball. The junior high gyms at Sac and Portland bring the whole league down. The domes at NAU and ISU don't help whatsoever either. Coaches in other conferences uses Sac, PSU, NAU, and ISU as reasons for recruits not to go to Montana and Weber. Sac St and Portland St should be huge net pluses to the league - especially for basketball - because of their urban profile. Instead, those two are huge negatives.

Facilities help recruiting, good recruiting brings about wins, wins brings about fans, fans bring about facilitites and recruiting. It's a vicious circle that only Weber and Montana have right at the moment.

UND and SUU coming in will have better basketball facilities than most of the rest of the Sky.
 
BTW, UND is a #1 seed going into the 16-team NCAA hockey tournament.

UND in the St Paul regional vs W Michigan, with the winner facing the Minnesota / Boston University winner for the right to go to the Frozen Four. If UND faces Minnesota in the regional final, it could be really nasty in the XCel Center, as those two fan bases absolutely hate each other.

http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/icehockey-men/d1/2011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
UM doesn't need to change conferences to be competitive in the NCAA tourney. Just looking at the game against UW shouldn't be a reason to get worked up about the Big Sky. While the Griz lost by 24, they really weren't that far away from being right in that game, believe it or not...just like the last game against Weber that the Griz won by 19, we all know that game could have been much closer.

I won't go over the points I already made in another thread. I'll just say that the UW game was winnable or at a minimum we could have been much closer. When you combine the shooting display that UW put on with the fact that some of our key players struggled, it just ended the way it did. I think if that match up was played 10 times UW would probably win 6 or 7 and the Griz 3 or 4.

The best thing UM, Missoula, the fans, etc. can do is to rally around the excitement that was generated from this year. The sold out games at Dalberg along with the roudy student section was huge and should help to bring more/better recruits. The fact the Griz went to the tourney 2 of the last 3 years was huge and will bring more/better recruits.

Doing well in the Big Dance won't happen over night. The Griz have things set up pretty well to give them a great chance over the next few years with the young guys coming up, the current signees and the greater chance at getting more very good players that may not have considered UM previously. The coaching staff had done a good job the last few years. They and the players should get better and better over the next few years and I believe can make a legitimate run in the tourney...regardless of what conference they are in. The non-conference games will be important and I hope UM can get back into the winter tourney situation.
 
Grizz Man said:
2)There are no consistent powerhouse D1 teams in any sport in the 12 least populated states (which are, in order of least people WY, VT, ND, AK, SD, DE, MT, RI, NH, ME, HI, and SD). So I think we just have to live with that reality, no matter our conference. The Grizz do very well considering their geographical fate.

A number of top hockey schools in ND, VT, ME.
 
A number of top hockey schools in ND, VT, ME.

Yeah, UND fan pointed out hockey. Did you know that if you google "MSU rodeo" the top two hits are about Michigan State rodeo. How do fans in Bozeman feel about that?

And why doesn't anyone in the state of MT follow hockey? It's plenty snowy, I'd think.
 
Back
Top