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CopperGold14 said:
Never a good loss, I don't care how it is framed. The Griz looked physically outclassed by an athletically superior team. Size matters and Mack, DCH, Bannan etc. were out muscled by Adamu, Belo, Abdul, Osobor and Tynes. The game in Missoula will favor the Cats unless the Griz get tougher between now and then.

Please.

How does a team that’s supposedly out-muscled and athletically inferior out-rebound their opponent? Doesn’t it suck when facts get in the way of your trolling?

The GRIZ lost this game for one reason: they had a horrible shooting night. If anything, I actually walk away from this game thinking there are very few if any bsc teams who can play with Montana when they have even an average shooting night.
 
EverettGriz said:
CopperGold14 said:
Never a good loss, I don't care how it is framed. The Griz looked physically outclassed by an athletically superior team. Size matters and Mack, DCH, Bannan etc. were out muscled by Adamu, Belo, Abdul, Osobor and Tynes. The game in Missoula will favor the Cats unless the Griz get tougher between now and then.

Please.

How does a team that’s supposedly out-muscled and athletically inferior out-rebound their opponent? Doesn’t it suck when facts get in the way of your trolling?

The GRIZ lost this game for one reason: they had a horrible shooting night. If anything, I actually walk away from this game thinking there are very few if any bsc teams who can play with Montana when they have even an average shooting night.

I'm not trolling. Just not drinking the Kool Aid some of you are mixing. You can stare at the stat sheet to find something that makes you feel better, but I felt like we got physically handled in the paint and on the perimeter. Without Parker going one man wrecking crew, the score might've even been like 10-15 instead of 7.
 
CopperGold14 said:
EverettGriz said:
Please.

How does a team that’s supposedly out-muscled and athletically inferior out-rebound their opponent? Doesn’t it suck when facts get in the way of your trolling?

The GRIZ lost this game for one reason: they had a horrible shooting night. If anything, I actually walk away from this game thinking there are very few if any bsc teams who can play with Montana when they have even an average shooting night.

I'm not trolling. Just not drinking the Kool Aid some of you are mixing. You can stare at the stat sheet to find something that makes you feel better, but I felt like we got physically handled in the paint and on the perimeter. Without Parker going one man wrecking crew, the score might've even been like 10-15 instead of 7.

So you're not thirsty. None of that changes the facts, but again I apologize if they fail to fit your narrative.
 
Yesterday felt very much like a lot of the games last year.

A lot more sideways dribbling, inability to create space, and limited scoring options.

I do think how the game was played, more like a football game in the first half, played into how poorly the Griz performed on the offensive end. MSU is long and physical in the key and Montanas guards (primarily Beasley and Whitney) got gun shy getting into the key with Belo and company patrolling the paint.

Took until about the 10 minute mark with Parker saying "f-it and I am going to go to the rim hard", for UM's fortunes to change. But Montana was really a two person scoring tandem last night with Bannan and Parker the only guys able to get looks of any value that didn't require 45 dribbles or an off balanced mid range jumper. Give credit to MSU. They (MSU) aren't great defensively, but they got the game at a pace that allowed them to pack the key.

Just one minor officiating rant:
This has become a pet peeve of mine early on in BSC play. The purpose of the flop call was meant to keep defenders on their feet and stop bogging down especially low post play with bodies on the floor. But what has rankled me in the Griz's first 6 conference games it creates a clear advantage of the offense to use shove by clear outs because defenders have to worry about not going to the ground. Both teams are using it, but the flop call yesterday on Owens was a clear shove by that either should have been called a block or a charge. Even better would have been not to blow your whistle at all considering that the game was about to descend into a 10 minute rugby match on both ends. The out come is what drives me nuts, is college hoops officials aren't going to call clear outs unless someone goes to the ground outside the key. I just don't like how it changes how officials see contact, because it doesn't pair with everything else they are asked to patrol. Just one more thing for officials to consider when contact occurs and I think it clearly gives advantage to the offense for initiating contact to clear space. You don't give ground it is a block. You give ground but stay on your feet you get what the offensive guy wants (space). Call it a block, a charge or petes sake don't call anything at all.
 
EverettGriz said:
CopperGold14 said:
Never a good loss, I don't care how it is framed. The Griz looked physically outclassed by an athletically superior team. Size matters and Mack, DCH, Bannan etc. were out muscled by Adamu, Belo, Abdul, Osobor and Tynes. The game in Missoula will favor the Cats unless the Griz get tougher between now and then.

Please.

How does a team that’s supposedly out-muscled and athletically inferior out-rebound their opponent? Doesn’t it suck when facts get in the way of your trolling?

The GRIZ lost this game for one reason: they had a horrible shooting night. If anything, I actually walk away from this game thinking there are very few if any bsc teams who can play with Montana when they have even an average shooting night.

You are living in a fog if you couldn't see this coming 2 years ago, Cats are simply better than we are. They likely would have swept us last year and likely will sweep us this year. Shooting? The Griz are a poor shooting team to begin with combined with the Cats being a solid perimeter and interior defensive team, they hold teams to about 30% from three just like they did to us last night. Its no surprise that MSU shot better from three than their opponent and we didn't because that is what they have and we have done for 2 years. Doesn't it suck when facts get in the way?

For the Griz to win in Missoula they need someone to go off from three as we simply cannot grind it out with these guys. Unfortunately the only guy I see doing that is Vasquez who is is buried on the bench this year(3minutes last night)
I am sure you will dismiss me also as a troll as i don't guzzle the same Kool-aid you do
 
fanofzoo said:
zengriz said:
…how is bannon not coached to follow his shot…

… :wtf: …

How did he get rid of that beautiful shot at the end of last year, putting it up at the waist, grade school.

I noticed that at the Silver Maroon scrimmage. The double pump to the waist before any shot over 15 feet. Looks weird and haven't seen many going in. How does a good looking freshman shot turn into such a bizarre sophomore shot? Also, I agree with those saying the Griz were physically inferior inside (and at every position except point guard). Total rebounds aren't the only measure. How many times in every game does Griz get a player inside only to be "stuck' without a shot. Agree on Vasquez too. He'll be gone next year.
 
Mousegriz said:
fanofzoo said:
How did he get rid of that beautiful shot at the end of last year, putting it up at the waist, grade school.

I noticed that at the Silver Maroon scrimmage. The double pump to the waist before any shot over 15 feet. Looks weird and haven't seen many going in. How does a good looking freshman shot turn into such a bizarre sophomore shot? Also, I agree with those saying the Griz were physically inferior inside (and at every position except point guard). Total rebounds aren't the only measure. How many times in every game does Griz get a player inside only to be "stuck' without a shot. Agree on Vasquez too. He'll be gone next year.

Time for a change coach. Hard to understand Vasquez minutes, he played 26 minutes a game 2 years ago (25 last year) now averaging less than half. Shooting 41% from 3 for career (he is a solid defender in my opinion). He is our shooter! Appears that Martin is taking the bulk of his minutes and is not producing. Coach seems to be going for broke on Martin, who is no longer starting but playing starter minutes. Martin is shooting under 30% from 3's and 2's its not even close when comparing the two statistically. I hate to compare the two but someone needs to address the elephant in the room.

Also, for those that did not think the Griz were physically inferior what game were you watching last night?
 
wyomingriz said:
EverettGriz said:
Please.

How does a team that’s supposedly out-muscled and athletically inferior out-rebound their opponent? Doesn’t it suck when facts get in the way of your trolling?

The GRIZ lost this game for one reason: they had a horrible shooting night. If anything, I actually walk away from this game thinking there are very few if any bsc teams who can play with Montana when they have even an average shooting night.

You are living in a fog if you couldn't see this coming 2 years ago, Cats are simply better than we are. They likely would have swept us last year and likely will sweep us this year. Shooting? The Griz are a poor shooting team to begin with combined with the Cats being a solid perimeter and interior defensive team, they hold teams to about 30% from three just like they did to us last night. Its no surprise that MSU shot better from three than their opponent and we didn't because that is what they have and we have done for 2 years. Doesn't it suck when facts get in the way?

For the Griz to win in Missoula they need someone to go off from three as we simply cannot grind it out with these guys. Unfortunately the only guy I see doing that is Vasquez who is is buried on the bench this year(3minutes last night)
I am sure you will dismiss me also as a troll as i don't guzzle the same Kool-aid you do

Money where your mouth is on the game in Missoula? Sounds as though you'll even give me points, no?
 
wyomingriz said:
Mousegriz said:
I noticed that at the Silver Maroon scrimmage. The double pump to the waist before any shot over 15 feet. Looks weird and haven't seen many going in. How does a good looking freshman shot turn into such a bizarre sophomore shot? Also, I agree with those saying the Griz were physically inferior inside (and at every position except point guard). Total rebounds aren't the only measure. How many times in every game does Griz get a player inside only to be "stuck' without a shot. Agree on Vasquez too. He'll be gone next year.

Time for a change coach. Hard to understand Vasquez minutes, he played 26 minutes a game 2 years ago (25 last year) now averaging less than half. Shooting 41% from 3 for career (he is a solid defender in my opinion). He is our shooter! Appears that Martin is taking the bulk of his minutes and is not producing. Coach seems to be going for broke on Martin, who is no longer starting but playing starter minutes. Martin is shooting under 30% from 3's and 2's its not even close when comparing the two statistically. I hate to compare the two but someone needs to address the elephant in the room.

Also, for those that did not think the Griz were physically inferior what game were you watching last night?
You're an idiot man. Vazquez doesn't play cause he's a turnover machine. Beasley, Bannan, Parker, and DCH are all just as good of 3 point shooters as he is. Plus the last few shot attempts I've see Vazquez have were either air balls or bricks. There's a reason he's riding the pine and the simple answer is that he's been a liability. The game last night wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Wanna hear something interesting? 3 of the cats players wouldn't even be playing this year if it weren't for COVID last year. Bishop, Adamu, and Mohamed all took the additional COVID year. They should be graduated and playing overseas. We didn't even have a single guy on the team who was a Senior last year. Just put that into perspective man, and keep in mind we went wire-to-wire with these guys last night. We didn't get blown out by 30 like you're trying to proclaim we did.
 
Griz til I die said:
wyomingriz said:
Time for a change coach. Hard to understand Vasquez minutes, he played 26 minutes a game 2 years ago (25 last year) now averaging less than half. Shooting 41% from 3 for career (he is a solid defender in my opinion). He is our shooter! Appears that Martin is taking the bulk of his minutes and is not producing. Coach seems to be going for broke on Martin, who is no longer starting but playing starter minutes. Martin is shooting under 30% from 3's and 2's its not even close when comparing the two statistically. I hate to compare the two but someone needs to address the elephant in the room.

Also, for those that did not think the Griz were physically inferior what game were you watching last night?
You're an idiot man. Vazquez doesn't play cause he's a turnover machine. Beasley, Bannan, Parker, and DCH are all just as good of 3 point shooters as he is. Plus the last few shot attempts I've see Vazquez have were either air balls or bricks. There's a reason he's riding the pine and the simple answer is that he's been a liability. The game last night wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Wanna hear something interesting? 3 of the cats players wouldn't even be playing this year if it weren't for COVID last year. Bishop, Adamu, and Mohamed all took the additional COVID year. They should be graduated and playing overseas. We didn't even have a single guy on the team who was a Senior last year. Just put that into perspective man, and keep in mind we went wire-to-wire with these guys last night. We didn't get blown out by 30 like you're trying to proclaim we did.

They're trolls, GTID. Ignore them.

And great point about the cat's experience. This is likely the best, most experienced team they've had in many, many years and it still took a horrendous shooting night from the GRIZ for them to get their 2nd win in 21 games (think about that for a moment; can that even be called a "rivalry"??)
 
Griz til I die said:
wyomingriz said:
Time for a change coach. Hard to understand Vasquez minutes, he played 26 minutes a game 2 years ago (25 last year) now averaging less than half. Shooting 41% from 3 for career (he is a solid defender in my opinion). He is our shooter! Appears that Martin is taking the bulk of his minutes and is not producing. Coach seems to be going for broke on Martin, who is no longer starting but playing starter minutes. Martin is shooting under 30% from 3's and 2's its not even close when comparing the two statistically. I hate to compare the two but someone needs to address the elephant in the room.

Also, for those that did not think the Griz were physically inferior what game were you watching last night?
You're an idiot man. Vazquez doesn't play cause he's a turnover machine. Beasley, Bannan, Parker, and DCH are all just as good of 3 point shooters as he is. Plus the last few shot attempts I've see Vazquez have were either air balls or bricks. There's a reason he's riding the pine and the simple answer is that he's been a liability. The game last night wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Wanna hear something interesting? 3 of the cats players wouldn't even be playing this year if it weren't for COVID last year. Bishop, Adamu, and Mohamed all took the additional COVID year. They should be graduated and playing overseas. We didn't even have a single guy on the team who was a Senior last year. Just put that into perspective man, and keep in mind we went wire-to-wire with these guys last night. We didn't get blown out by 30 like you're trying to proclaim we did.

Turnover machine? Don't make up crap! He has 7 turnovers in 206 minutes of playing, that's a turnover every 30 minutes. Your the idiot! Thanks for your lecture on seniors repeating (like they are cheating haha)a year like they are in every program except ours. Shame on us for not having any seniors (we actually had one but he went to UMASS). Will you be crying foul when our guys take the extra year? I sure as hell won't.

You sound like CAT's football fans making excuses for Saturdays beat down. If you had an eye for basketball you would realize Vasquez is hands down our best and ONLY pure shooter.
 
EverettGriz said:
Griz til I die said:
You're an idiot man. Vazquez doesn't play cause he's a turnover machine. Beasley, Bannan, Parker, and DCH are all just as good of 3 point shooters as he is. Plus the last few shot attempts I've see Vazquez have were either air balls or bricks. There's a reason he's riding the pine and the simple answer is that he's been a liability. The game last night wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Wanna hear something interesting? 3 of the cats players wouldn't even be playing this year if it weren't for COVID last year. Bishop, Adamu, and Mohamed all took the additional COVID year. They should be graduated and playing overseas. We didn't even have a single guy on the team who was a Senior last year. Just put that into perspective man, and keep in mind we went wire-to-wire with these guys last night. We didn't get blown out by 30 like you're trying to proclaim we did.

They're trolls, GTID. Ignore them.

And great point about the cat's experience. This is likely the best, most experienced team they've had in many, many years and it still took a horrendous shooting night from the GRIZ for them to get their 2nd win in 21 games (think about that for a moment; can that even be called a "rivalry"??)

Been a Griz fan my whole life! Could blow your ass out of the water with Griz hoops knowledge back through 70's and up. Your stupid argument is looking backwards which is feels good but means nothing, i can at least acknowledge what i see on the floor whether i like it or not. To call people trolls every time they say something you don't like is pathetic! And no, i would never bet against the Griz, however wouldn't put money on them to beat the Cats this year
 
Here's what is crystal clear after reading the last few posts in this thread............Everett Griz and Griz til I die don't understand basketball.

If either one of you need a Basketball 101 class, Travis is teaching a section this semester and I'm sure he'd love to have both of you sitting in the front row taking notes and smiling at everything he says and nodding your heads in agreement. Hell, you might even learn something.
 
CopperGold14 said:
Here's what is crystal clear after reading the last few posts in this thread............Everett Griz and Griz til I die don't understand basketball.

If either one of you need a Basketball 101 class, Travis is teaching a section this semester and I'm sure he'd love to have both of you sitting in the front row taking notes and smiling at everything he says and nodding your heads in agreement. Hell, you might even learn something.
I don't understand basketball??? All I said in my post is that the cats are much older than us. Is that true or false? Did we shoot the ball poorly last night or not? I did not say anything about our scheme or our game plan last night. All I said is that they're the oldest team in the conference, and despite that it was still a close game that went wire to wire. Kudos to them for finding a way to win, and shame on us for not finding a way to win.
 
wyomingriz said:
Griz til I die said:
You're an idiot man. Vazquez doesn't play cause he's a turnover machine. Beasley, Bannan, Parker, and DCH are all just as good of 3 point shooters as he is. Plus the last few shot attempts I've see Vazquez have were either air balls or bricks. There's a reason he's riding the pine and the simple answer is that he's been a liability. The game last night wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Wanna hear something interesting? 3 of the cats players wouldn't even be playing this year if it weren't for COVID last year. Bishop, Adamu, and Mohamed all took the additional COVID year. They should be graduated and playing overseas. We didn't even have a single guy on the team who was a Senior last year. Just put that into perspective man, and keep in mind we went wire-to-wire with these guys last night. We didn't get blown out by 30 like you're trying to proclaim we did.

Turnover machine? Don't make up crap! He has 7 turnovers in 206 minutes of playing, that's a turnover every 30 minutes. Your the idiot! Thanks for your lecture on seniors repeating (like they are cheating haha)a year like they are in every program except ours. Shame on us for not having any seniors (we actually had one but he went to UMASS). Will you be crying foul when our guys take the extra year? I sure as hell won't.

You sound like CAT's football fans making excuses for Saturdays beat down. If you had an eye for basketball you would realize Vasquez is hands down our best and ONLY pure shooter.
You apparently didn't watch our last home game! And to answer your question, no I'm not gonna cry if/when our guys take the additional year. I'm just pointing out that last night the cats had that luxury and we did not. That's part of the game though, but I want you to think about that when examining this team and Decuire, they're still one of the youngest teams in the conference. When these older guys at Weber and msu graduate next year, then we will be one of the older teams and will have the advantage with experience and playing time.
 
We actually have a super senior in Blakney that can make a huge difference the next time around. Between Anderson and Blakney they have 10 fouls and 40 minutes to give at the 5. Although no one knows what Blakney will be like when he returns, he just needs to be physical. He doesn’t need to score a lot of points. The biggest beneficiary will be Bannan as he will have more time guarding his natural position. He played 37 minutes and was 4-6 in the first half, but 1-7 in the second. I think the physical battle and minutes played wore him down a little bit (as it would anyone). It will also force Belo to work battling with Anderson and Blakney all game.
 
GrizBall said:
We actually have a super senior in Blakney that can make a huge difference the next time around. Between Anderson and Blakney they have 10 fouls and 40 minutes to give at the 5. Although no one knows what Blakney will be like when he returns, he just needs to be physical. He doesn’t need to score a lot of points. The biggest beneficiary will be Bannan as he will have more time guarding his natural position. He played 37 minutes and was 4-6 in the first half, but 1-7 in the second. I think the physical battle and minutes played wore him down a little bit (as it would anyone). It will also force Belo to work battling with Anderson and Blakney all game.

So why the change in shot from year 1 to year 2? His double pump is something he didn't do last year...and frankly no other shooter I've seen has this "form". Do agree he's forced to cover out of position a lot. Because Griz have two "slight" posts in Anderson and Blakney. Blakney was not physical when he was playing so doubt he suddenly will be when/if he returns.

Not sure when others on here will agree with me that Griz are undersized at almost every position in every game they play....but they are!
 
Mousegriz said:
GrizBall said:
We actually have a super senior in Blakney that can make a huge difference the next time around. Between Anderson and Blakney they have 10 fouls and 40 minutes to give at the 5. Although no one knows what Blakney will be like when he returns, he just needs to be physical. He doesn’t need to score a lot of points. The biggest beneficiary will be Bannan as he will have more time guarding his natural position. He played 37 minutes and was 4-6 in the first half, but 1-7 in the second. I think the physical battle and minutes played wore him down a little bit (as it would anyone). It will also force Belo to work battling with Anderson and Blakney all game.

So why the change in shot from year 1 to year 2? His double pump is something he didn't do last year...and frankly no other shooter I've seen has this "form". Do agree he's forced to cover out of position a lot. Because Griz have two "slight" posts in Anderson and Blakney. Blakney was not physical when he was playing so doubt he suddenly will be when/if he returns.

Not sure when others on here will agree with me that Griz are undersized at almost every position in every game they play....but they are!

I don't disagree, but I think just not having Bannan in those types of defensive positions could make a big difference in his overall productivity next game and keeping him fresher.

I don't understand Bannan's shot either, but he has gone (in D-1 games) from 24% last year to 43% from 3 this year, so I am going to cut him slack on the form.
 
wyomingriz said:
Mousegriz said:
I noticed that at the Silver Maroon scrimmage. The double pump to the waist before any shot over 15 feet. Looks weird and haven't seen many going in. How does a good looking freshman shot turn into such a bizarre sophomore shot? Also, I agree with those saying the Griz were physically inferior inside (and at every position except point guard). Total rebounds aren't the only measure. How many times in every game does Griz get a player inside only to be "stuck' without a shot. Agree on Vasquez too. He'll be gone next year.

Time for a change coach. Hard to understand Vasquez minutes, he played 26 minutes a game 2 years ago (25 last year) now averaging less than half. Shooting 41% from 3 for career (he is a solid defender in my opinion). He is our shooter! Appears that Martin is taking the bulk of his minutes and is not producing. Coach seems to be going for broke on Martin, who is no longer starting but playing starter minutes. Martin is shooting under 30% from 3's and 2's its not even close when comparing the two statistically. I hate to compare the two but someone needs to address the elephant in the room.

Also, for those that did not think the Griz were physically inferior what game were you watching last night?

I think Travis was very, very excited for Martin. I think he saw him as the wing defender he believes they were missing last year playing the role he expected Cameron Satterwhite and Naseem Gaskin to play. However, there is a limit to the saying “defense wins championships” and I believe this illustrates that limit (I actually don’t believe defense wins championships, most studies show you are better off with a very good offensive/good defense than vice-versa but I'll leave that to another post).

The starting line-up for the first 13 games or so was Anderson/Bannan/Beasley/Martin/Whitney. Out of 19 Big Sky line-ups that have played at least 60 offensive and defensive possessions, this 5 was dead last in Adj Efficiency Margin basically meaning none of the other 19 lineups got outscored by more and frankly it is dead last and not really close.
The interesting part is that defensively, this line-up was 4th out of the 19 which means they are very good defensively which is what I think Travis was looking for, but they were dead last offensively and intuitively this makes sense. Anderson does a lot of great things, but he is limited offensively (and there is nothing wrong with that as he brings a lot to this team). Couple this with Martin shooting under 30% from the FG and 3 there aren’t too many offenses that could compensate for that (unless you just have two offensive beasts). Bannan, Beasley and Whitney are all good offensive players, but not good enough to overcome the offensive short-comings of the others. This group was last in offensive efficiency by a pretty wide margin.

A lot of this just comes to being mindful on who you have on the floor. Sometimes I feel in the obsession to “match-up” defensively, there is little thought to how that line-up is going to score. It does no good to hold your opponent to 2 points if the line-up you put out can’t score any points. Again, this is where defense not only does NOT win championships, but it’s actually losing games. That’s just basic basketball math. Also, it’s ok to think (for example) “we may be a little small and at a disadvantage size-wise at the 3 right now, but there is no way they can stay in front of Beasley, Whitney and Parker at the same time.” In a limited sample size, Montana’s best line-up is actually Anderson/Bannan/Beasley/Parker/Whitney.

Martin will always have role to play defensively, but until his shooting comes around, it’s difficult to have him and Anderson on the floor at the same time (except in super-obvious defensive situations). I think an example of his best use is coming up Thursday. At some point in each half Travis should tell Martin “I am putting you in for the next 6 minutes and your sole purpose is make Knight work as hard as humanly possible.”
 
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