Having an adaptable defense

[HookedonGriz]

UMGriz75 knows pretty much nothing about football. He is nothing more than a number cruncher.

You need to flatter yourself, of course. That's the only way you can do it. :roll:

Under Ty, MSU scored scored seven whole points. Under Semore, 35.

Flatter yourself some more. Crunch those numbers.

Hey UM75 and PlayerRep (aka Ace and Gary) when you two are done having a circle jerk with each other look at UM75's direct quote above. Since this ass hat likes to use quotes so damn much with all of his gibberish, I will use his. He is making an argument here that Ty was a better Coordinator because he gave up less points to the Cats than Semore did the following year. Tell me what world does that make any sense in? Serious question. I don't need a 12 page spin and I don't need Ace coming to the rescue after he polishes off Ty's knob.... just answer how that makes any sense!!!!

 

[PlayerRep]

Hook, 75 made no argument whatsoever in the post you quoted. He merely stated how much the defense gave up to the MSU in 2 successive years. His quote of his doesn't make any argument.Your below statement is just plain wrong, and made up. You appear not to know the difference between a statement and an argument.

"He is making an argument here that Ty was a better Coordinator because he gave up less points to the Cats than Semore did the following year."

And, I will tell you again, it was perfectly fine and normal to compare the results of games that occurred in different seasons. Such comparisons are made all the time. You are one completely out to lunch on this viewpoint. Feel free to explain what the comparison is not valid, but don't be giving up this BS that any comparison of games in different years isn't valid and shouldn't be made.

 

[PlayerRep]

In Hook's world, no one should be allowed to compare this season's UM defense with last season's defense, or the play of any UM player this year with his or others performances the prior year, because of this: "two different seasons, two different teams, coaches, fields, etc". How can people be so dumb? Truly unbelievable.

They are advocating a true revolution in the sports world, one that Rob Ash would no doubt enthusiastically support.

Thanks to GrizindaBox/Bloomberg/Hooked, this has become the dumbest sports thread in history.

"Results don't matter and dammit, don't compare Results either."

"You can't compare 'results.' They are different."

The last two lines of 75's post hit the nail on the head. Jeez, of course, it's fine to compare results, including in different years.

 

[grizindabox]

whoa.....whoa....whoa.....I never set foot into this circle jerk of an argument.....I have barely posted on egriz the past several weeks.....it is summer.....and nice out......some of you knot-heads should think about doing other things in life.......and give egriz a break.......a buddy of mine LOL'd at 75 bringing me into this....told me I don't even have to post and I am living in 75's head......and for the record......I don't have another username......now off to the lake....bitches....

 

[garizzalies]

Comparing 2014 results with 2015 results is like comparing apples to oranges, or your football knowledge to Grizfan24.

And comparing second half results with first half results isn't fair either is it? Why in the hell are we talking about an "adaptable" defense, then? Wah Wah Wah, life just isn't fair to people like you, is it? It must be that "vast football knowledge" you believe you have, right?

I love it when mathletes use stats to prove some point. It's like, were you even at that game?
Apparently Gary is trying to prove Traitorak adapted to polyester's run game from the first half to the second.
But the biggest gaffes came on the last drive!
Of the 25k watching, I guess only two couldn't see those plays coming--Traitorak and Gary

 

[UMGriz75]

UMGriz75 knows pretty much nothing about football. He is nothing more than a number cruncher.

You need to flatter yourself, of course. That's the only way you can do it. :roll:

Under Ty, MSU scored scored seven whole points. Under Semore, 35.

Flatter yourself some more. Crunch those numbers.

Hey UM75 and PlayerRep (aka Ace and Gary) when you two are done having a circle jerk with each other look at UM75's direct quote above. Since this ass hat likes to use quotes so damn much with all of his gibberish, I will use his. He is making an argument here that Ty was a better Coordinator because he gave up less points to the Cats than Semore did the following year. Tell me what world does that make any sense in? Serious question. I don't need a 12 page spin and I don't need Ace coming to the rescue after he polishes off Ty's knob.... just answer how that makes any sense!!!!

Whoee. You had to reach a long ways to pull that one out of context, didn't you? Are you seriously that stupid? That was the whole point; you idiots can't claim Semore is better when there are numbers that don't support the claim. That happened to be an example of why you can't make your claim. Trying to run at it backwards is exactly that: backwards.

I don't think I've ever run across a group of knotheads like this; trying pathetically to argue that teams, players, coaches can't be compared because "things are different." Seriously, this is base stupidity. The whole idea of sports is to make those comparisons. Sports measures performance. Whether its a white line, a scoreboard, or a stopwatch. You guys are not just tying yourselves in rhetorical knots, this is surely the most ridiculous assemblage of opinions I've ever seen. Sitting in your armchair, armed with the world's most powerful remote control device has apparently made you dumber than I thought possible. You have no idea what you are talking about, and making strenuous efforts to prove it, simply proves it.

 

[Umista]

U get the feeling this entire thread may get the boot any second?

For those of us to dumb to jump into the "adaptable defense" argument we seem to lose what limited knowledge we thought we had...

 

[UMGriz75]

Apparently Gary is trying to prove Traitorak adapted to polyester's run game from the first half to the second.

"Apparently" you are stupid. There is no other explanation for looking at game results like that, and trying to argue that it shows nothing about the "adaptability" of either the offense or the defense, and especially when there is a pattern of that over a season. That's beyond ludicrous.

Reverse the question. What would show "adaptability?" Some of that magical "Football Knowledge" that B75/grizindabox argues doesn't show up in the data and in the scores, a purported knowledge that exists only in his mind? An opinion, uninformed by reality, indeed, antagonistic to it?

See how stupid this "discussion" is?

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Who is a better DC Ty or Seymore? We will find it soon enough. I know this question will provide a lot of fodder for egriz this season. You know it's gonna be a "barn burner" on this site if the Griz D struggles. The Ty supporters will be out in full force. It will be equally spirited if the D improves significantly. Some personal loyalties will be tested that's for sure....I can't wait.

 

[UMGriz75]

Cal Poly first column, all opponents last season, second column

Cal Poly averaged offense of 479 yards last season, mostly running. Ty's Defense kept them to 386 yards, far below Cal Poly's average.

GoGriz reports UM's performance was better than the numbers I used.

One year after giving up 421 yards on the ground in a 41-21 loss to Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo, Montana's defense gave up a quiet 330 and kept the Mustangs out of the end zone in the second half. But the offense was unable to reward the effort.

Hey B75, Football Genius! Crunch these numbers. See how Ty's defense couldn't adapt? See how we could not stop a "run game?" I bet your explanation will be a good one!

Having offered my analysis, and the analysis of the UM Athletic Department itself (and which oddly agreed), we are still waiting for the contrarian answer from the self-proclaimed "Football Knowledge" expert. Since B75 can't seem to articulate an actual explanation, sinking instead into a sullen series of mindless insults, maybe "Hookedongriz" can lend his expert knowledge to explaining how Ty's Defense could not work against a "run" game and how he could not "adapt."

 

[PlayerRep]

Who is a better DC Ty or Seymore? We will find it soon enough. I know this question will provide a lot of fodder for egriz this season. You know it's gonna be a "barn burner" on this site if the Griz D struggles. The Ty supporters will be out in full force. It will be equally spirited if the D improves significantly. Some personal loyalties will be tested that's for sure....I can't wait.

It will apparently be the position of Hook and his ilk, that no comparisons can be made because it's not valid to compare this coming season to last season (different year, different personnel, other differences)--unless, of course, the comparison happens to support Hook's view and then the comparison will be okay.

 

[PlayerRep]

And how did Ty's defense, which couldn't adapt but did hold CP to 2 FG's in the 2d half, get a safety late in the game to put the Griz up?

 

[UMGriz75]

Who is a better DC Ty or Seymore? We will find it soon enough. I know this question will provide a lot of fodder for egriz this season. You know it's gonna be a "barn burner" on this site if the Griz D struggles. The Ty supporters will be out in full force. It will be equally spirited if the D improves significantly. Some personal loyalties will be tested that's for sure....I can't wait.

I don't think so. Everyone wants Semore to succeed. The only problem on this thread is the vindictive hindsight of a very few malicious fanboys, fully armed with their heavy-duty and heavily-used remote controls, who are trying to rewrite history by fabricating an alternative universe that can only be done so by arguing that "facts don't matter," that only self-proclaimed and self-gratifying "Football Knowledge!" matters.

Ty's gone. Semore has his chance, but it's in the future. This year's short run for him was not auspicious, but next year is a new start. Ty got better with each passing year. Why not Semore?

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Cal Poly first column, all opponents last season, second column

Cal Poly averaged offense of 479 yards last season, mostly running. Ty's Defense kept them to 386 yards, far below Cal Poly's average.

GoGriz reports UM's performance was better than the numbers I used.

One year after giving up 421 yards on the ground in a 41-21 loss to Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo, Montana's defense gave up a quiet 330 and kept the Mustangs out of the end zone in the second half. But the offense was unable to reward the effort.

Hey B75, Football Genius! Crunch these numbers. See how Ty's defense couldn't adapt? See how we could not stop a "run game?" I bet your explanation will be a good one!

Having offered my analysis, and the analysis of the UM Athletic Department itself (and which oddly agreed), we are still waiting for the contrarian answer from the self-proclaimed "Football Knowledge" expert. Since B75 can't seem to articulate an actual explanation, sinking instead into a sullen series of mindless insults, maybe "Hookedongriz" can lend his expert knowledge to explaining how Ty's Defense could not work against a "run" game and how he could not "adapt."

I wouldn't expect anybody to respond 75. You wore them all out. Now take your ball and go home....

 

[UMGriz75]

I wouldn't expect anybody to respond 75. You wore them all out. Now take your ball and go home....

Thanks for responding.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Let's use your premise that adaptability gets better as the game progresses and the defensive coordinator sees more plays. That means Ty should have been at his best, after watching 58 minutes of football that game. Why is it, then, that the defense could not keep the CPO offense in bounds, when it had no timeouts, except on plays that went for first downs? When he should have been at his best, the defense could not come through and win the game. It looked to me, and everyone in the north end zone within earshot, that the grizzly defense was not prepared for this situation. Ty's hyper animation from the sidelines did not get the job done Had we won this game, my opinion of Ty'sabilities would be much higher. D-1 head coaches are looking for defensive Cordinator's who can bail out struggling offenses and win the game. We didn't get the win over CPO no matter how many more points the defense gave up to the team in the previous year or previous 10 games. Ty failed in a defining moment for him, even if you don't want to knowledge that .

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Who is a better DC Ty or Seymore? We will find it soon enough. I know this question will provide a lot of fodder for egriz this season. You know it's gonna be a "barn burner" on this site if the Griz D struggles. The Ty supporters will be out in full force. It will be equally spirited if the D improves significantly. Some personal loyalties will be tested that's for sure....I can't wait.

It will apparently be the position of Hook and his ilk, that no comparisons can be made because it's not valid to compare this coming season to last season (different year, different personnel, other differences)--unless, of course, the comparison happens to support Hook's view and then the comparison will be okay.

I don't want to put any words into Hook's mouth but I think his point was that you can't necessarily use ONE game to determine which defensive coach is better or more adaptable ...... Of course you can compare results year over year. That's not the issue. It's the conclusions that 75 is trying to make from those results. Plus, after five days of arguing, the posts go off on these wild tangents and they are hard to follow. Really, if the simple question is Ty or Seymore, Griz Nation will find out soon enough. As far as Poly and their Triple Option is concerned, I can't wait to see the potential impact of a big DT like Davidson. Poly has been feasting on the Griz D in recent years with that fake FB dive QB follow play. it's gonna be interesting.....

 

[UMGriz75]

When he should have been at his best, the defense could not come through and win the game.

I agree with the UM Athletic Department assessment. "Montana's defense gave up a quiet 330 and kept the Mustangs out of the end zone in the second half. But the offense was unable to reward the effort."

If you feel that, under Stitt, its up to the Defense to win games for the Griz, Semore has his work cut out for him. It's an interesting viewpoint. Why do you have such a low opinion of Bob Stitt's offense? You are aware that Cal Poly was one of the conference's defensive doormats last season, right? And we have a high-powered offense, right?

 

[UMGriz75]

Of course you can compare results year over year. That's not the issue.

Well, it became an "issue" because "Football Knowledge!" in the person of self-proclaimed Football Guru B75 says you can't.

 

[UMGriz75]

I don't want to put any words into Hook's mouth but I think his point was that you can't necessarily use ONE game to determine which defensive coach is better or more adaptable .....

No one did.

This thread demonstrated the point by the following:

1) the season results of first half vs second half
2) comparisons with the previous season
3) a three season analysis of Griz Def.
4) demonstrating "rushing" defense against one of BSC's leading "rushing" teams.
5) comparisons with the Cats as a leading passing offensive team over a two year period

What else could you use? You're not "putting words" in his mouth, you are trying to excuse his unjustifiable efforts to avoid any and all valid comparisons.

Frankly, if there is nothing to be found in ALL of those comparisons, then this is not a sport, it is a wishing game, a Pokeman, a debating society where the guy with the biggest remote control tries to claim "Football Knowledge!" and wins.

And too, if someone makes the claim that Ty "could not adapt" to a rushing offense, how many specific examples to the contrary do you need? In "logic," it only takes one, right? Unless you are a fan of the "yes, but ..." school of debate.