Has anybody noticed?-BSC standings

[marceagfan5]

I've spent enough time in downtown Missoula, Bozeman and Flagstaff to know that Big Sky Conference schools aren't exactly Ivy League material. This is not to say that academic success isn't attainable at any BSC institutions but we aren't talking Oxford or Cambridge here, folks.

There is a continuum that you may be failing to appreciate.
Further, it's not all about academics. Outside of Eastern Washington (and in it, really) EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

Yet with all the publicity the Griz have generated the past couple of years, EWU could probably say the same thing about the Griz and the University of Montana...

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I've spent enough time in downtown Missoula, Bozeman and Flagstaff to know that Big Sky Conference schools aren't exactly Ivy League material. This is not to say that academic success isn't attainable at any BSC institutions but we aren't talking Oxford or Cambridge here, folks.

There is a continuum that you may be failing to appreciate.
Further, it's not all about academics. Outside of Eastern Washington (and in it, really) EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

Yet with all the publicity the Griz have generated the past couple of years, EWU could probably say the same thing about the Griz and the University of Montana...

To each his own. I think you and I both know there is no BSC without the Montana schools, though, so I bet EWU will "make the decision" to stay put.

 

[marceagfan5]

I've spent enough time in downtown Missoula, Bozeman and Flagstaff to know that Big Sky Conference schools aren't exactly Ivy League material. This is not to say that academic success isn't attainable at any BSC institutions but we aren't talking Oxford or Cambridge here, folks.

There is a continuum that you may be failing to appreciate.
Further, it's not all about academics. Outside of Eastern Washington (and in it, really) EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

Yet with all the publicity the Griz have generated the past couple of years, EWU could probably say the same thing about the Griz and the University of Montana...

To each his own. I think you and I both know there is no BSC without the Montana schools, though, so I bet EWU will "make the decision" to stay put.

As much as I would love to disagree with you, you are absolutely right about the BSC and the Montana schools, primarily UM. The BSC would not be close to where it is today without UM, maybe not even in existence. Eastern wouldn't be setting its standards so high if the Griz hadn't set the bar high...

Wow that was painful to write...

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Just a question to some, and take out the "we could of had NDSU and SDSU in the conference instead of Southern Utah" cause that's not reality now.

My questions is, in the CURRENT BIG SKY, IF Montana and EWU hadn't been placed as a "rival" and the two teams had the chance to schedule a home-and-away, would you want them to NOT strike the deal? I for one would be PISSED if the Griz didn't play EWU every year, no matter what the implications, or lack there of, were on the conference standings. I commend MSU and EWU for making it happen for them. Ash said earlier this season: "We HAVE to play Eastern Washington." IMHO, he's right.

I really don't think it's important for UM to play schools like EWU. I understand we have to play MSU, but schools like EWU don't really belong in the same sentence as UM. Yeah, I know they've had a good team recently, but my view doesn't have a whole lot to do with football.

I love this. You know things are bad for a football program when it's fans take to the FOOTBALL forum to denigrate other team's ACADEMIC prestige relative to their own.

My how the mighty have fallen...

:thumb: :clap:

Difference between EWU and the UofM...these are the best years of your tiny program..literally at the summit these last 4 years....while we at the UofM are pissed off that we've been going through the roughest patch we've experienced in many many years..yet were still fighting for BSC Championships and in the playoffs. If you want to say the mighty have fallen that's fine...I prefer to say the Giant is taking a nap!

 

['68griz]

There is a continuum that you may be failing to appreciate.
Further, it's not all about academics. Outside of Eastern Washington (and in it, really) EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

Yet with all the publicity the Griz have generated the past couple of years, EWU could probably say the same thing about the Griz and the University of Montana...

To each his own. I think you and I both know there is no BSC without the Montana schools, though, so I bet EWU will "make the decision" to stay put.

As much as I would love to disagree with you, you are absolutely right about the BSC and the Montana schools, primarily UM. The BSC would not be close to where it is today without UM, maybe not even in existence. Eastern wouldn't be setting its standards so high if the Griz hadn't set the bar high...

Wow that was painful to write...

Thanks!

 

[EWURanger29]

EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

This is a false, but even more...the sad part is that your probably don't see the irony in your own statement.

 

[EWURanger29]

I really don't think it's important for UM to play schools like EWU. I understand we have to play MSU, but schools like EWU don't really belong in the same sentence as UM. Yeah, I know they've had a good team recently, but my view doesn't have a whole lot to do with football.

I love this. You know things are bad for a football program when it's fans take to the FOOTBALL forum to denigrate other team's ACADEMIC prestige relative to their own.

My how the mighty have fallen...

:thumb: :clap:

Difference between EWU and the UofM...these are the best years of your tiny program..literally at the summit these last 4 years....while we at the UofM are pissed off that we've been going through the roughest patch we've experienced in many many years..yet were still fighting for BSC Championships and in the playoffs. If you want to say the mighty have fallen that's fine...I prefer to say the Giant is taking a nap!

No, the difference is that UM's football program has peaked in a sense. Not saying you won't continue to be a player on the national stage in the FCS, but you don't have a lot of room to grow.

You are right that the past 4 years EWU has enjoyed unprecedented success with its program, but that didn't happen overnight. Guys like Zornes, Kramer, and Wulff paved the way for Baldwin with the success they had and he just took it to another level. It was a long time in the making, which means that for the most part it's going to be sustainable as long as the upward trend in attendance and financial giving continue. The last piece is the stadium dynamic.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You are right that the past 4 years EWU has enjoes unprecedented success with its program, but that didn't happen overnight. Guys like Zornes, Kramer, and Wulff paved the way for Baldwin with the success they had and he just took it to another level. It was a long time in the making, which means that for the most part it's going to be sustainable as long as the upward trend in attendance and financial giving continue. That last piece is stadium dynamic.

Only twice in 15 years did Zornes win more than 7 games. And I'm not entirely clear as to how he managed to keep his job between '87 and '91 going 20-32-1 during that stretch. Winning percentage of .563 overall.

Kramer had exactly ONE good year out of 6, going 12-2 in 1997. Outside of that he was 25-30 in the other 5 years. Overall winning percentage of .536.

Paul Wulffe won 9 games twice, wrapped around 6 other years of mediocrity. Overall winning percentage of .569.

Then again, maybe you have a different definition of "success". In reality, the LAST piece is Beau Baldwin. I give him two, MAYBE three more years there....then what? You've seen what a poor coaching hire can do to a program...

 

[CDAGRIZ]

EWU just has a really bad reputation across the board, and I don't enjoy the fact that schools like UM and MSU have to be associated with EWU.

This is a false, but even more...the sad part is that your probably don't see the irony in your own statement.

You don't have to be sad about the fact that maybe most people don't think too highly of EWU as a University. Look, you can say it's great all you want, but most people don't agree. It doesn't mean you shouldn't support EWU. All I'm saying is, I (me personally) don't like UM being associated with EWU. Maybe you don't like being associated with UM, but then, as previously noted, good luck with the conference.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

You are right that the past 4 years EWU has enjoes unprecedented success with its program, but that didn't happen overnight. Guys like Zornes, Kramer, and Wulff paved the way for Baldwin with the success they had and he just took it to another level. It was a long time in the making, which means that for the most part it's going to be sustainable as long as the upward trend in attendance and financial giving continue. That last piece is stadium dynamic.

Only twice in 15 years did Zornes win more than 7 games. And I'm not entirely clear as to how he managed to keep his job between '87 and '91 going 20-32-1 during that stretch. Winning percentage of .563 overall.

Kramer had exactly ONE good year out of 6, going 12-2 in 1997. Outside of that he was 25-30 in the other 5 years. Overall winning percentage of .536.

Paul Wulffe won 9 games twice, wrapped around 6 other years of mediocrity. Overall winning percentage of .569.

Then again, maybe you have a different definition of "success". In reality, the LAST piece is Beau Baldwin. I give him two, MAYBE three more years there....then what? You've seen what a poor coaching hire can do to a program...

Bingo. Especially if that program doesn't have a long history of excellence to keep the fans in place in the down years. See, e.g., EWU attendance in 2011.

 

[EWURanger29]

You are right that the past 4 years EWU has enjoes unprecedented success with its program, but that didn't happen overnight. Guys like Zornes, Kramer, and Wulff paved the way for Baldwin with the success they had and he just took it to another level. It was a long time in the making, which means that for the most part it's going to be sustainable as long as the upward trend in attendance and financial giving continue. That last piece is stadium dynamic.

Only twice in 15 years did Zornes win more than 7 games. And I'm not entirely clear as to how he managed to keep his job between '87 and '91 going 20-32-1 during that stretch. Winning percentage of .563 overall.

Kramer had exactly ONE good year out of 6, going 12-2 in 1997. Outside of that he was 25-30 in the other 5 years. Overall winning percentage of .536.

Paul Wulffe won 9 games twice, wrapped around 6 other years of mediocrity. Overall winning percentage of .569.

Then again, maybe you have a different definition of "success". In reality, the LAST piece is Beau Baldwin. I give him two, MAYBE three more years there....then what? You've seen what a poor coaching hire can do to a program...

Could he be hired away? Absolutely, if the right opportunity arose. Most people acknowledge that as a possibility or even an eventuality. It'd have to be the right job, though. Keep in mind that Baldwin has strong ties to the PNW, not only professionally, but personally as well. I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't pursue a job that wasn't somewhere on the west coast where he has his recruiting base.

Or maybe he goes the Jerry Moore route and stays right where he is...who knows. I personally hope he never leaves.

As for Zornes, he will always be the "Godfather" of EWU football. He transitioned the program back in the late 70's from NAIA, to DII, to 1AA independent, and then finally to the BSC. His overall winning percentage isn't great, but when put in context his first few Big Sky era teams weren't competing with 63 scholarships, either, which is a big disadvantage when you're going against the likes of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise State of that era.

The Kramer era was fairly mediocre overall, but he did take the program to the semi's in 1997, which is more than he ever did at MSU.

Wullf took teams to playoffs three times in his stint in 2004, 2005, and 2007, and knocked off #1 and #2 seeds during that time.

Like I said, Baldwin has built off of previous success and taken it to another level. As much as some of you guys want us to be, we weren't a Weber State or UNC prior to 2010 by any stretch.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You are right that the past 4 years EWU has enjoes unprecedented success with its program, but that didn't happen overnight. Guys like Zornes, Kramer, and Wulff paved the way for Baldwin with the success they had and he just took it to another level. It was a long time in the making, which means that for the most part it's going to be sustainable as long as the upward trend in attendance and financial giving continue. That last piece is stadium dynamic.

Only twice in 15 years did Zornes win more than 7 games. And I'm not entirely clear as to how he managed to keep his job between '87 and '91 going 20-32-1 during that stretch. Winning percentage of .563 overall.

Kramer had exactly ONE good year out of 6, going 12-2 in 1997. Outside of that he was 25-30 in the other 5 years. Overall winning percentage of .536.

Paul Wulffe won 9 games twice, wrapped around 6 other years of mediocrity. Overall winning percentage of .569.

Then again, maybe you have a different definition of "success". In reality, the LAST piece is Beau Baldwin. I give him two, MAYBE three more years there....then what? You've seen what a poor coaching hire can do to a program...

Could he be hired away? Absolutely, if the right opportunity arose. Most people acknowledge that as a possibility or even an eventuality. It'd have to be the right job, though. Keep in mind that Baldwin has strong ties to the PNW, not only professionally, but personally as well. I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't pursue a job that wasn't somewhere on the west coast where he has his recruiting base.

Or maybe he goes the Jerry Moore route and stays right where he is...who knows. I personally hope he never leaves.

As for Zornes, he will always be the "Godfather" of EWU football. He transitioned the program back in the late 70's from NAIA, to DII, to 1AA independent, and then finally to the BSC. His overall winning percentage isn't great, but when put in context his first few Big Sky era teams weren't competing with 63 scholarships, either, which is a big disadvantage when you're going against the likes of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise State of that era.

The Kramer era was fairly mediocre overall, but he did take the program to the semi's in 1997, which is more than he ever did at MSU.

Wullf took teams to playoffs three times in his stint in 2004, 2005, and 2007, and knocked off #1 and #2 seeds during that time.

Like I said, Baldwin has built off of previous success and taken it to another level. As much as some of you guys want us to be, we weren't a Weber State or UNC prior to 2010 by any stretch.

No, it's like I said....you have a different definition of "success". :lol: