Griz v. Cats Running Backs

[wbtfg]

I will take the bait... I will preface this by saying the I think that Gillman is a very good runner...

Let's look at just freshman (as that is what the award is for), and only the top one for each team

UM: Eli Gillman- 94 carries / 508 Yards / 6 TD's

MSU: Jared White- 49 Carries / 444 Yards / 3 TD's

SO... Gillman has rushed for 64 more yards, but needed 45 more carries.

Lets look at JUST the top 3 running backs (not including QB's)

Griz Total: (Ostmo/ Harris/ Gillman) 180 Carries / 889 Yards / 11 TD's

Cats Total: (White/ Humphrey/ Davis) 120 Carries / 933 Yards/ 11 TD's

You guys are still missing the point that a lot of the RB's yards/stats are a function of the offense's blocking scheme and execution. This is why RB's are becoming devalued in the NFL as well. His point was that our backs are more talented, but that your line has played incredibly well.

Where did he make that point?

 

[hilinegrizfan]

I've always been a big fan of ostmo. wish he could stay and they find a way to get him production

 

[mthoopsfan]

You guys are still missing the point that a lot of the RB's yards/stats are a function of the offense's blocking scheme and execution. This is why RB's are becoming devalued in the NFL as well. His point was that our backs are more talented, but that your line has played incredibly well.

Where did he make that point?

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

 

[wbtfg]

Where did he make that point?

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

So what's your measurement that the Griz top 3 RBs are better than MSU's RB's?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

A list of MSU backs with over 6.5 yards/carry.

J Davis (Jr): 6.7 (3td's)
J White (Fr): 9.1 (2)
Elijah Elliott (Jr): 9.3 (2)
Scottre Humphrey (Fr): 7.3 (6)
Adam Jones (Fr): 17.3 (1)

Edit: I forgot the following

Garrett Coon (So): 7.0
Marquis Johnson (jr): 7.0


And just for funsies, we'll throw in the quarterbacks. All this with our preseason starting RB (Lane Sumner) out injured.

Sean Chambers: 8.9 (11)
Tommy Mellott 7.4 (0)
Jordan Reed: 14.0 (0)



Now do yours.

My favorite among this group is Scottre Humphrey. It has nothing to do with football as I’ve never seen him play. It has everything to do with saying “Scottre” aloud in that kind of old-timey Trans-Atlantic accent. “Buffy, have you seen Scottre running about? He appears to have left a drawer open, and frankly, I won’t stand for this childish behavior. Now, if you’ll kindly fetch me a glass of port, I plan to read a cutting regarding the founding of the D’oyly Carte Opera Company.”

 

[mthoopsfan]

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

So what's your measurement that the Griz top 3 RBs are better than MSU's RB's?

My eyes, and talking to coaches. Better bigger athletes in some cases.

 

[SACCAT66]

Where did he make that point?

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

Ok: Lets look at receiving yards for RB position (Again, this is just the "top 3" that were mentioned before)

Griz Total: 18 Receptions / 133 yards / 0 TD's

Cats Total: 7 Receptions / 105 yards / 2 TD's

I would give a slight edge there to UM, as they have more catches and yards. Cats average more yards a catch at 15 YPC VS Griz 7.4 YPC

AGAIN... I am not saying that the Griz RB's aren't as good as the Cats. But I just can't see how you can conclusively say one is better than the other. At least not at this time.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

Ok: Lets look at receiving yards for RB position (Again, this is just the "top 3" that were mentioned before)

Griz Total: 18 Receptions / 133 yards / 0 TD's

Cats Total: 7 Receptions / 105 yards / 2 TD's

I would give a slight edge there to UM, as they have more catches and yards. Cats average more yards a catch at 15 YPC VS Griz 7.4 YPC

AGAIN... I am not saying that the Griz RB's aren't as good as the Cats. But I just can't see how you can conclusively say one is better than the other. At least not at this time.

I talk to coaches around the conference and state. And some commentators. How can you conclude I am not right?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Other thread.

“Running backs - I don't know much about your backs, other than some stats. Yes, I know MSU has a terrific running game, but a good running game, good blocking, and good running scheme, don't necessary mean that backs are great runners. And can they catch? The Griz have 3 terrific running backs and very good 4th one, who played a number of games last year. The top 2 are sharing most of the carries. The 3d guy was a starter much of last year as a true frosh. All have speed. The top 2 also have power. One of the top 2 was hurt early in the year and didn't play then. Gilman is averaging about the same number of yards per game as White, but not nearly as much per carry.”

Ok: Lets look at receiving yards for RB position (Again, this is just the "top 3" that were mentioned before)

Griz Total: 18 Receptions / 133 yards / 0 TD's

Cats Total: 7 Receptions / 105 yards / 2 TD's

I would give a slight edge there to UM, as they have more catches and yards. Cats average more yards a catch at 15 YPC VS Griz 7.4 YPC

AGAIN... I am not saying that the Griz RB's aren't as good as the Cats. But I just can't see how you can conclusively say one is better than the other. At least not at this time.

MSU leads the nation (all levels) in number of Scottres. To me, that pushes them into the lead in this debate.

 

[reinell30]

The only way to prove which running backs are better is to have them all run behind the same O-Line. This won't happen. Cats O-Line is far better at blocking then the Griz O-Line! Cats' offense depends on a strong running game. The Griz try this balance offense. I would love to see Gilman run behind the Cat O-Line!

 

[SACCAT66]

So what's your measurement that the Griz top 3 RBs are better than MSU's RB's?

My eyes, and talking to coaches. Better bigger athletes in some cases.

NOW we are getting somewhere...

If it is the "My Eyes" then is isn't fact at all, and pure opinion... Not saying that your opinion is wrong, as you played the game, and I didn't (But have gone to multiple coaching summits at NCAA, High School, and NFL levels in the days as a Broadcaster for Football and Basketball).

As for coaches... I have talked to about 15 or more from around the Big Sky, and a handful more from around the FCS (this includes assistants, not just head coaches). To your point, most talk about the scheme that MSU runs, and how the O-Line just LEANS on you all game. But the main point most bring up about the Big Sky running attacks is this... They all said that the biggest difference (aside from O-line play) is that EVERY RB on MSU is just as good as the one they are subbing for... "You never get a break with MSU, Starter goes out, and you would think, 'OK there will be a letdown, even just a little' but there never is. They just come at you in waves... All fast, all know exactly what their assignment is. You don't see that at the FCS level". This is a direct quote from one head coach at the Big Sky level. I asked 3 others, and they said pretty much the same thing...

All this said, I again will reiterate that I think both RB groups (MSU and UM) are special.

 

[indiancoyote]

Ok: Lets look at receiving yards for RB position (Again, this is just the "top 3" that were mentioned before)

Griz Total: 18 Receptions / 133 yards / 0 TD's

Cats Total: 7 Receptions / 105 yards / 2 TD's

I would give a slight edge there to UM, as they have more catches and yards. Cats average more yards a catch at 15 YPC VS Griz 7.4 YPC

AGAIN... I am not saying that the Griz RB's aren't as good as the Cats. But I just can't see how you can conclusively say one is better than the other. At least not at this time.

I talk to coaches around the conference and state. And some commentators. How can you conclude I am not right?

Because you're the board idiot.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I will take the bait... I will preface this by saying the I think that Gillman is a very good runner...

Let's look at just freshman (as that is what the award is for), and only the top one for each team

UM: Eli Gillman- 94 carries / 508 Yards / 6 TD's

MSU: Jared White- 49 Carries / 444 Yards / 3 TD's

SO... Gillman has rushed for 64 more yards, but needed 45 more carries.

Lets look at JUST the top 3 running backs (not including QB's)

Griz Total: (Ostmo/ Harris/ Gillman) 180 Carries / 889 Yards / 11 TD's

Cats Total: (White/ Humphrey/ Davis) 120 Carries / 933 Yards/ 11 TD's

Cat running backs had 40 yards, total, in the first half against CP. I watched that half. Cat running backs were nothing special then. How do you explain 40 yards in first half against CP? Yes, as game went out of hand, the Cat running backs got more yards.

In 2023, against only team(s) with winning records, the Cat running backs have averaged per carry, as follows: Davis 4.8, White 4.2 and Humphrey - 2.0. Chambers - 4.5 and Mellott - 4.2. The longest runs of the rb's were 9, 6 and 2. The QB's 13 and 8. 4.4 average per rush overall against winning team(s).

Looks like, so far, the Cats are just racking up stats against weak or bad teams. The Griz are playing against much better teams so far. And, until recently, the Griz o-line has underperformed.

I just don't see any evidence of the Cat running backs before all-world, nor do the people I've been talking too. Good or fine, yes. We will learn more as the season goes on.

Edit: So far, rushing D is UM 6th, SDSU 15th, and MSU 23d. Of course, this will change too.

 

[smarsh]

#egrizzing

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Obviously talking about this year, mate.

Take out the Utah Tech game and he’s got 126 yards on 42 carries. That’s 3 yards a carry. I try not to let the games against bad teams skew my opinion too much. He performed a lot better last year. Not sure if it’s the accumulation of injuries or just the OL.

I think Ostmo is one of those guys who gets "better" the more carries he gets...and this year he ain't getting those carries, they're going to Gillman...

But hey, if you take out Gillman's 85 yard run and his 53 yard run, his YPC don't look too hot either.

I vote we only count the bad carries against the good teams.

That's what I was thinking. If you took out all of Gillman's gains, his YPC would be 0.0, or maybe even negative.

 

[wbtfg]

I will take the bait... I will preface this by saying the I think that Gillman is a very good runner...

Let's look at just freshman (as that is what the award is for), and only the top one for each team

UM: Eli Gillman- 94 carries / 508 Yards / 6 TD's

MSU: Jared White- 49 Carries / 444 Yards / 3 TD's

SO... Gillman has rushed for 64 more yards, but needed 45 more carries.

Lets look at JUST the top 3 running backs (not including QB's)

Griz Total: (Ostmo/ Harris/ Gillman) 180 Carries / 889 Yards / 11 TD's

Cats Total: (White/ Humphrey/ Davis) 120 Carries / 933 Yards/ 11 TD's

Cat running backs had 40 yards, total, in the first half against CP.

I think they only had 7 or 8 attempts.

Looks to me like Jared White had 7 for 38 (5.4 y/c)and Elijah Elliott had 1 for -1. I think that was about it.

Remind me. How did UM's running backs do in the first half against the D2 team?

 

[mthoopsfan]

My eyes, and talking to coaches. Better bigger athletes in some cases.

NOW we are getting somewhere...

If it is the "My Eyes" then is isn't fact at all, and pure opinion... Not saying that your opinion is wrong, as you played the game, and I didn't (But have gone to multiple coaching summits at NCAA, High School, and NFL levels in the days as a Broadcaster for Football and Basketball).

As for coaches... I have talked to about 15 or more from around the Big Sky, and a handful more from around the FCS (this includes assistants, not just head coaches). To your point, most talk about the scheme that MSU runs, and how the O-Line just LEANS on you all game. But the main point most bring up about the Big Sky running attacks is this... They all said that the biggest difference (aside from O-line play) is that EVERY RB on MSU is just as good as the one they are subbing for... "You never get a break with MSU, Starter goes out, and you would think, 'OK there will be a letdown, even just a little' but there never is. They just come at you in waves... All fast, all know exactly what their assignment is. You don't see that at the FCS level". This is a direct quote from one head coach at the Big Sky level. I asked 3 others, and they said pretty much the same thing...

All this said, I again will reiterate that I think both RB groups (MSU and UM) are special.

I call BS on your coaches comment. As I showed, MSU backs, and even QB's, weren't nearly up to their averages against teams with a winning record, and the running backs got 40 yards in first half against CP. 40 yards in that half is really special, in your view, I guess. Not in mine.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Cat running backs had 40 yards, total, in the first half against CP.

I think they only had 7 or 8 attempts.

Looks to me like Jared White had 7 for 38 (5.4 y/c)and Elijah Elliott had 1 for -1. I think that was about it.

40 yards is 40 yards. Those running stats were way below MSU's stats against weak teams and teams with a losing record. You just like to "cherry pick" stats against weak teams.

 

[wbtfg]

I think they only had 7 or 8 attempts.

Looks to me like Jared White had 7 for 38 (5.4 y/c)and Elijah Elliott had 1 for -1. I think that was about it.

40 yards is 40 yards. Those running stats were way below MSU's stats against weak teams and teams with a losing record. You just like to "cherry pick" stats against weak teams.

First: :lol:

B: Sumner, Davis, and Humphrey were all out with injuries.

III: :lol:

 

[mthoopsfan]

40 yards is 40 yards. Those running stats were way below MSU's stats against weak teams and teams with a losing record. You just like to "cherry pick" stats against weak teams.

First: :lol:

B: Sumner, Davis, and Humphrey were all out with injuries.

III: :lol:

So, are you admitting that the Cats don't have any good healthy backs available now? "Our injured backs are all-world."