Griz offer Minn. 2009 center

[GrizBBIsKing]

gotta disagree with you, everett. good coaching generally reveals itself quickly, not in "a couple of years." when great coaches change schools, they put their stamp on the new program immediately. krysko put his stamp on his teams the first year.

Then city how do you explain things like Mike Krzyzewski at Duke? In his first 3 years at Duke his record was below .500. In the ACC he went 6-8, 4-10, and 3-11. Did he put his stamp on the program immediately?

Or how about John Wooden. It took him 16 years to take UCLA to the final 4.

Or how about Jerry Moore at App St.? It was something like 15 years before he took App to the championship game for the first time.

I agree with EverettGriz, it is way too early to make any judgments about Tinkle.

Sure Krysco was awesome in his two years here, but nobody knows how good of a college coach he would have been had he stayed. Most of the players he won with were recruited by Holst and Kennedy. Several of Krysco's highly touted recruits didn't exactly pan out. The jury is still out on some of his other recruits. Recruiting is a HUGE part of establishing a solid program, and that's one area I think Tinkle may ultimately be better at than Krysco, but only time will tell.

Short answer. You need to check how good the program was before new coach came in. So how good was Duke before Coach K. Did Coach K inherit a number 1 team with high expectations? Or did he inherit a so-so team and he built it up. If it was the latter, then 3 years is pretty good darn good showing just how good Coach K was.

A lot of it depends on the expectations for the team. Larry K turned the program around a bit and that win against Nevada somewhat raised the bar for Tinkle despite losing the leadership of Criswell and Matthews. I expect if Duke's Coach K left, the next Duke coach will not be given as long of time as Coach K was given, unless he inherits a team that lost a lot of players due to graduation, or NBA.

 

[Mslacat]

I hate to change the subject, but I also hear the Griz offered 6-6 Mike Bruesewitz (class of 2009) of Mendota Heights Minnesota at about the same time they offered Dower. He is listed as a small forward at Rivals but I have very little other info about him other than Montana is his first offer, he also has Montana State, Illinois St., Northern Iowa, Wisconsin, and Utah State looking at him.

 

[mtgrizrule]

With all these possible recruits from MN/ND, I wonder if this due to Cameron Rundles, and Larry K being regionally located there, throwing a few bones the way of Tinks and Huse? Other than that region though, why and how is both programs seem to be competing for the same kids from all over the place? Is this now a truly friendly coaching rivalry now? Either way, I am very pleased with quality of recruits we are going for. Imagine who the GRIZ could land if we were not in a 1 bid conference. For example the WAC or MWC. Tell me that would not help basketball! Not to mention better basketball attendance with better competition.

 

[citygriz]

coaches who've made a difference their first year or two:

randy rahe: weber--last to first, first year;
brad huse: montana state--any cat fans still crying over mick durham?
anthony grant: virginia commonwealth--28 wins first year, upset of duke in first round at big dance;
andy kennedy: ole miss--21 wins first year after four prior losing seasons at the school;
john thompson 3: georgetown--72-30 in four years;
dave rose: byu, three winning seasons, positioned to win mwc;
dave leitao: virginia--coach of the year in the a.c.c. in his second season;
sidney lowe: n.c. state--20 wins his first season in major rebuilding year;
tony bennett: washington state--took a solid program to new heights his first year;
reggie theus: new mexico state--took him two years to put the school back on the basketball map;
billy gillespie: kentucky--one year to revive u.t.e.p., then another year to do the same at texas a & m (starting first year at kentucky
chris lowery: southern illinois--sweet 16 in his fourth year, 78-26 overall during that period.

this in addition to more established coaches known for turning programs around immediately:
lon krueger: four years to get u.n.l.v. back to 30 wins;
bob huggins: one year to turn kansas state around (before he took a hike to west virginia
bruce pearl: two years to restore tennessee;
kelvin sampson: one year to get indiana back on track;
lorenzo romar: two years to bring the washington huskies back;
ben howland: two years to revive northern arizona, a year to get pitt back on track, two years to return ucla to national prominence.

one very successful coach who took his time to get things going: trent johnson--four years to get nevada into the ncaa tournament, and three years to get his bearings at stanford before making the tournament.

promising coaches who seem to have stalled out, at least for now:
steve alford: iowa (now at new mexico);
jay john: oregon state;
leonard hamilton: miami;
stan heath: arkansas (gone);
greg graham: boise state

first-year coaches to watch at new schools:
tim miles--colorado state;
jim boylan--utah;
heath schroyer--wyoming;
jeff reynolds--air force;
rick majerus--saint louis;
tubby smith--minnesota;
todd lickliter--iowa (from butler.)

conclusion: it's my experience as an employer that good employees demonstrate their talents and indicate their success almost immediately, while negative traits in lesser employees reveal themselves quickly as well. i see no reason this should be hugely different for basketball coaches.

tinkle has demonstrated almost immediately his talent as a recruiter and to create a solid family atmosphere around his program, and i'll repeat what i've said before, that i think he'll be extremely successful as a head coach. i do think he needs to toughen his approach to defense, as heathcote, montgomery, krysko and robin selvig have all done at montana, and that's the dimension i'll be looking for in our team this year.

 

[Mslacat]

brad huse: montana state--any cat fans still crying over mick durham?

More respect should have been shown to this fine man and coach

 

[citygriz]

i too have always had great respect for mick durham, and what i said was not intended to be mean-spirited, only to show the respect that cat fans seem to have for huse. my bad.

 

[twentythreeOh4]

City, first of all I agree 100% with your comment at the end that Tinkle needs to put a strong emphasis on improving the defense. I think that is the most important factor for Tinkle demonstrate in his development as a head coach.

There is clearly some coaches that have done well very early. What Randy Rahe did at Weber was amazing. I still don't believe that proves you can make a solid judgment about about a coach after one season. For example, Notre Dame showed immediate improvement in Charlie Weis' first season. But that's not the same thing as building a solid program. I think it's obvious this year that the jury is still out on Weis.

As far as your list:
Brad Huse -- How do you put Huse on a list of coaches who made an instant impact? Was it his 5th place conference finish? Was it the fact the Cat's tanked late in the season dropping 5 of their last 6 games? Was it the fact that in the last regular season game against ISU -- with a home big sky tourney game on the line -- the Cat's managed all of 15 points in the first half? Was it the fact that in the tourney against PSU the Cats fell behind by 40 some points?

Huse may turn out to be a good coach, but to say after 1 year that he made an instant turn around at MSU is just not supported by the facts.

Trent Johnson - you mention it took several years for him to get going at Stanford. His first year was not pretty. Despite the fact that he inherited a strong program, he didn't get off to the best start suffering losses to the likes of Montana and UC Davis. Would have been premature to make a decision about his coaching after 1 year don't you think?

For me, it's way too early to decide about Tinks. I want to see how he does this year AND especially next year when he will have more of his players in the fold.

 

[Grizbacker1]

coaches who've made a difference their first year or two:

randy rahe: weber--last to first, first year;
brad huse: montana state--any cat fans still crying over mick durham?
anthony grant: virginia commonwealth--28 wins first year, upset of duke in first round at big dance;
andy kennedy: ole miss--21 wins first year after four prior losing seasons at the school;
john thompson 3: georgetown--72-30 in four years;
dave rose: byu, three winning seasons, positioned to win mwc;
dave leitao: virginia--coach of the year in the a.c.c. in his second season;
sidney lowe: n.c. state--20 wins his first season in major rebuilding year;
tony bennett: washington state--took a solid program to new heights his first year;
reggie theus: new mexico state--took him two years to put the school back on the basketball map;
billy gillespie: kentucky--one year to revive u.t.e.p., then another year to do the same at texas a & m (starting first year at kentucky
chris lowery: southern illinois--sweet 16 in his fourth year, 78-26 overall during that period.

this in addition to more established coaches known for turning programs around immediately:
lon krueger: four years to get u.n.l.v. back to 30 wins;
bob huggins: one year to turn kansas state around (before he took a hike to west virginia
bruce pearl: two years to restore tennessee;
kelvin sampson: one year to get indiana back on track;
lorenzo romar: two years to bring the washington huskies back;
ben howland: two years to revive northern arizona, a year to get pitt back on track, two years to return ucla to national prominence.

one very successful coach who took his time to get things going: trent johnson--four years to get nevada into the ncaa tournament, and three years to get his bearings at stanford before making the tournament.

promising coaches who seem to have stalled out, at least for now:
steve alford: iowa (now at new mexico);
jay john: oregon state;
leonard hamilton: miami;
stan heath: arkansas (gone);
greg graham: boise state

first-year coaches to watch at new schools:
tim miles--colorado state;
jim boylan--utah;
heath schroyer--wyoming;
jeff reynolds--air force;
rick majerus--saint louis;
tubby smith--minnesota;
todd lickliter--iowa (from butler.)

conclusion: it's my experience as an employer that good employees demonstrate their talents and indicate their success almost immediately, while negative traits in lesser employees reveal themselves quickly as well. i see no reason this should be hugely different for basketball coaches.

tinkle has demonstrated almost immediately his talent as a recruiter and to create a solid family atmosphere around his program, and i'll repeat what i've said before, that i think he'll be extremely successful as a head coach. i do think he needs to toughen his approach to defense, as heathcote, montgomery, krysko and robin selvig have all done at montana, and that's the dimension i'll be looking for in our team this year.

I agree 100% on the Defensive improvements Tinks hopefully will have. I do have some reservations about some of the people on that list, who have really won nothing to speak of, and some of them have had NCAA violations in doing so, Huggins and Sampson off the top of my head. When was the last time Indiana was on probation from the NCAA? Answer: when they hired Sampson.