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Griz O and the middle of the field

S

SaskGriz

Well-known member
DONOR
Just a quick thought; on any thread discussing the Griz/UNI game but also many going back to last year, there have been many comments about the Griz offence not using the middle of the field. In watching the UNI game I think I remember the Panthers taking one shot deep down the middle on a post that was overthrown, there might have been one other that Markel broke up. My point is it isn't just the Griz or Coach Stitt's offence that stays away from the middle.

There are a number of reasons for this and you guys who played the game can probably help me with a few more. First, in most base coverages there are two safeties on patrol back there. Secondly most of the time corners, especially the field corner are taught to maintain inside leverage which makes the receivers break much cleaner and easier to the outside. In most zone coverages teams are going to drop LB's into the shallow middle which if nothing else will force a QB to throw over them, or in the case of the old Tampa2, which NDSU still uses quite a bit a Mike LB will drop very deep in the middle.

So essentially you have a lot of clutter in the middle which if you are going to attack you need to either clear out with patterns that take a while to develop or give your receivers enough time to find the soft spots in the zone and sit. This is often done by using playing action to hold the LB's but because our offence has that read/option element to it where the QB "rides" the RB, play action isn't as effective.
 
I'd defer specifics to Gfan-24, but I think you're conceptually there. I was subtly suggesting in my outdoor voice that Bob should consider throwing a slant or three against UNI. Anything to help Brady get into a rhythm so that he'd build some confidence for the other throws. It's a lot to ask for a guy to make throws to the sidelines from the opposite hash and have it in a spot where only your guy can catch it.

I do think we're seeing less zone because the running game is sporadic @ best, teams know that pressing coverage and adding rushers is their best bet to stall this offense. We're also seeing the impact of new receivers, likely issues with missed reads and wrong patterns, and very little separation from the DB's. Throwing into traffic isn't probably for the best, but think about the TD throw, a roll out that caught everyone flat footed. Nicely played and nothing else the rest of the game. The defenses are doing the same things week after week, and I'm reminded of the definition of insanity. You might be able to dictate if your guys are experienced, know where to go, you can run it a little, and the line blocks well enough to give the QB time to deliver a catachable ball. If any of that isn't there, you have to adapt, improvise & overcome. Praise be to a great defense.
 
Damn, old bigdog came alive and made very astute comments. Good job.
I am having one heck of a time trying to figure out coach Stitt. I know some obvious things such as his penchant to play not to lose etc. But what I am in the dark about is the plodding play of our overall offense. I expected an offense that was complicated and hard to stop. Further, I have visited with coach Stitt many times and the guy is very smart, fast and quick. Yes our O-Line needs to hold at least one full second longer and our QB seems slow and acts like a one read charlie plus our receivers are young and on and on it goes. I need to be patient but that is not in my DNA.
I still love our team and I think guys like me need to relax, enjoy the games because I see great things coming down the road. I mentioned before it will take us three games to know just what kind of team we have this year. So far so good.
 
I can think of really only two coverage alignments that are ready made from a pre-read to attack the middle of the field. 1 high cover 3, and zero coverage.

One of the elements many don't recognize is that most passing offenses are geared by several fairly established rules on pre-reads. West coast systems read a combination of things, Leachs offenses typically read high to low and guys like Tony Franklin it is predicated on the play call as to whether they read hi-low or left to right.Which means you read the safety in most cases, identify the alignment and then identify the best matchup. Most pre snap match ups don't involve a slot player on a safety unless they (the safety) are aligned near the line of scrimmage. Most offense pre snap routes (1 or 3 step drops) are vertical releases by the #1 receiver, or hot reads to the inside receivers in 2x2. Very rarely, if ever, is there a pre snap read involving a vertical release by #2 down the middle. Too risky.

If you attack the middle it is by route design with two high. I noted this earlier in the week with the conversation about the putridity of the offense, that most all good middle routes take time to develop. Run a post? Won't work without pulling the safety. Seam route or vertical release? Best done with a combo route behind it.

With more and more defensive coaches, including myself, embracing mixed coverages attacking the middle isn't as easy running an in/out combo. Smash routes are popular, but they take time. Basically working left to right against a two high look out of a 2x2, you'd have a hitch or a slant, a corner or deep out by #2 and a corner release by the y on the opposite side with a wider aligned post on the backside. The post will take three to four seconds to reach the sweet spot between the back side safety (to the post side) and the front side safety who likely slid over the top of the front side corner route.

THe point being if you are a quarterback, and in most offenses you look to the middle of the field with your route combos, and you know you go away from it early and come back to it late. A lot of spread offenses don't use the middle deep, because they don't want the QB holding on to the ball that long. I think that is a preference of stitt, that intermediate to shorter routes, over and over again with a high completion percentage are preferable to vertical attacks for large chunks of yardage over the middle. Too much risk, too many body's moving. Stretch the offense horizontally and attack the soft spots just outside the hashes of the field.

A staple of June Jones/Read camp which is the X,Z dig combos are enormously difficult to run. Those classic routes where you see perimeter players running at 20 yards across the middle of the field. Blended coverages make that difficult but the absolute absence of shell cover 2 (man under) where you can pull the safety off the middle of the field with a slot corner route. The more you get full field 2 or a Tampa look, that sweet spot in the middle of the field isn't 15-25 yards deep it is more of the 7-10 in the middle, and 15-20 on the hashes outside the box.

You have to have good receivers who understand where those spots are, especially when you run climb routes of any type and you have to have time to run them. You need good protection, good route running and a quarterback who can anticipate the narrow Windows.
 
Inside the pylon had a really good article about Stitt's offense http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-u/offense-film-study-u/2016/06/06/bob-stitts-offense-montanta-fly-sweep-screen-concepts/

I just don't understand why he isn't using it like they describe. I think part of it is that Brady is coming to the snap with a predetermined option regardless of what is presented. And that is not Stitt's offense.
The funny thing is that Stitt was recruited as an offensive mastermind, but it's the defense that owns the field right now.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Leach has a field day with his offense throwing to the inside receivers. The seam route is a mainstay of his offense.
Click to expand...

True. His scheme and Tony Franklins are pretty similar. While Stitts offense is closer to Mazzones and Bill Walshs.

The problem to me with seam routes is that your slot receivers, especially out of 2x2 have to understand Windows and route integrity. Twice against UNI, Brady threw the seam route and I don't think the receiver ran to the proper side of the high safety. So it looks like Brady threw behind someone when the receiver didn't hold his route line.

Leach and Franklin both teach window seam routes. The idea is that it is hot early, look for the ball one or two steps into the route, and depending on coverage it is an early or late window. Receivers can break the route off based upon safety alignment and turn it into a hitch or a post hitch.
 
fencer24 said:
Inside the pylon had a really good article about Stitt's offense http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-u/offense-film-study-u/2016/06/06/bob-stitts-offense-montanta-fly-sweep-screen-concepts/

I just don't understand why he isn't using it like they describe. I think part of it is that Brady is coming to the snap with a predetermined option regardless of what is presented. And that is not Stitt's offense.
The funny thing is that Stitt was recruited as an offensive mastermind, but it's the defense that owns the field right now.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to complain about the defense playing as well as they are, and I'm not surprised either. The head coach is still responsible for the quality of defense, at least by extension. And Stitt has shown he is committed to ensuring the defense has the right leadership and the necessary personnel to exceed.

Offense might take a while to dig out of the hole that Delaney left.....


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Eric Decker from the Jets owned the seam vs the Bills last night. Crazy how many times he was open up the middle 15-20 yards downfield.
 
I'm thinking we will see much more of Stitts offense when we start playing big sky conference teams...you know.....the games that matter the most!
 
I am not looking for a huge shift in what Stitt and BG are currently comfortable with but on a majority of plays, they don't even run a receiver in the middle of the field sans a short cross, drag or curl. They may not like throwing down the middle, but it would probably open up some more windows if they would run a receiver on a seam, deeper cross, or post route just to keep the safeties more honest. And who knows, they might even catch one sleeping once in awhile.
 
BadlandsGrizFan said:
I'm thinking we will see much more of Stitts offense when we start playing big sky conference teams...you know.....the games that matter the most!
Click to expand...

I am not sure this to be the case. BG has some limitations throwing over the middle and I think Stitt is fine working around this like he is currently.
 
Damn good stuff by Grizfan24. Now if I can get my wife to explain it to me I will be rolling.
Thanks for the info and the history.
 
Umista said:
Damn good stuff by Grizfan24. Now if I can get my wife to explain it to me I will be rolling.
Thanks for the info and the history.
Click to expand...
I concur. Good read! Especially on a slow Friday night :)
 
It seemed to me that in the first part of the game against UNI, we had good field position, and Stitt was pretty aggressive in his play calling. When we got the lead, and had a lot of drives start inside our 20 and some inside our 10, he got really conservative in his play calling. I personally thought he called a good game, it was frustrating to watch, but felt his defense could get the win for them.
 
Good post 24.

On a lot of these routes and the outside routes, the QB needs to release the ball before the WR finishes his route or breaks open. IF the WR is not in the right place or if there is miscommunication that ball isn't going to be on target. My opinion is that a lot of these issues will be cleared up as chemistry builds and the young receivers and Gus get more comfortable. OL holding their blocks a tad longer to allow for longer progressing routes and more time to work through progressions won't hurt either.
 
Ironic that was arguably the biggest play of the season last year (4th and 10 conversion to Reece Carlson vs. UNDSU) was a seam route laid in between the covering LB and the secondary.
 
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