griz enigma

[Grizbacker1]

I just love jackasses like you who take shots at players. There were some games other players didn't deliver in the clutch, where were you then toolboy?

He's not good enough to start, that's a fact, not a shot. Maybe you should cool down and just realize that he isn't as good as you want him to be.

Sorru chump, when you single out players then it is a cheapshot. You don't know shit about Jack, and obviously don't know the game or the Griz well enough to know he is not even playing the position he should be. I wouldn't have a problem with Raason playing more, and some games he plays well, but to lay all the blame at Jack's feet merely demosntrates your lack of knowledge of basketball. There is not one player on the team, or any team for that matter that doesn't have bad games. AJ has won 4 BSC POW awards yet he stunk in 2 games this season, and where were you then? still sniffing his jock I imagine toolboy.

 

[PlayerRep]

McGillis is the best 4 on the team, and that's why he has started and gotten the playing time he's gotten. He plays hard and with intensity, hits the boards and plays good defense. Anyone saying he's a liability on defense shows you aren't watching or don't know the game. His shooting percentage of 43% is in line with Johnson, Staudacher, Taylor, Cherry and Selvig (all of whom range from 43%-48%), despite his lower percentage from 3-point range. He's 3rd on the team in rebounds. His assist to turnover ratio is positive (and better than Selvig, Ward, Banny and Qvale). His freethrow percentage of 62%, compared to Selvig's 64%. He's 3rd on the team in steals, with one less than AJ. He has 2 more fouls than Qvale, and has fouled out twice. Qvale has fouled out four times. He's 5th on the team in scoring--2.4 less than Staudacher and 1 ahead of Selvig. He averages 3 minutes more per game than Selvig.

 

[Grizflips]

Sorru chump, when you single out players then it is a cheapshot. You don't know shit about Jack, and obviously don't know the game or the Griz well enough to know he is not even playing the position he should be. I wouldn't have a problem with Raason playing more, and some games he plays well, but to lay all the blame at Jack's feet merely demosntrates your lack of knowledge of basketball. There is not one player on the team, or any team for that matter that doesn't have bad games. AJ has won 4 BSC POW awards yet he stunk in 2 games this season, and where were you then? still sniffing his jock I imagine toolboy.

Uh no asshole, when I single out a player for his play, then it's completely fair. You're right, I don't know shit about Jack, thus why I haven't said anything about his character, integrity or the type of person he is. If I said, "Jack's a complete asshole, can't stand him", then that would be a cheap shot, so chill the fuck out. You just can't handle that he isn't good enough to be this all-star player you imagine him to be. I am well aware that he's playing out of position; which is part of the reason why he shouldn't be playing at all. Obviously his position is a big deal, but that doesn't effect his FG% (.431), at least not to the level where it should make a huge difference. Clearly, you need to read closer as well, because I'm not blaming Jack for any of the Griz losses; yet one could make an argument that the Griz play better without him playing a lot of minutes. The only blame I've laid on anyone in this thread is on Jack for his poor play.

Your comparison in bad games between AJ and Jack is hilarious and awful at the same time. Where was I when AJ had bad games? The same place I was when he was having good games: watching good teams play ball, like Nova, or 'Cuse. So grow up, and get over it that Jack just isn't the next Michael Jordan. He's an okay player, but not a Division I starter. Truth hurts sometimes.

 

[jbear]

Grizbacker said: "Have you ever posted anything that wasn't negative toward a player or coach?"

Yes, I have and very often.

I am a very loyal and strong fan of the Griz, so most of my posts are positive. I simply stated that McGillis is not getting it done, especially lately. All you have to do is to take a look at his numbers.

He isn't the only one... Unless the Griz can establish a better post presence where the "bigs" can get into the scoring column much more than they are now, there will be far too much pressure for our guards. Anthony will be covered like glue and is god enough to get his points, but others need to step up big time. Our post presence is lacking and that could be our achilles heel in the tourney.

McGillis does have a grea work ethic and he is inspirational and chases down loose balls and he plays defense, but we need him to get some points and take some of the pressure off. Same for Qvale and Selvig!

 

[PlayerRep]

Grizbacker said: "Have you ever posted anything that wasn't negative toward a player or coach?"

Yes, I have and very often.

I am a very loyal and strong fan of the Griz, so most of my posts are positive. I simply stated that McGillis is not getting it done, especially lately. All you have to do is to take a look at his numbers.

He isn't the only one... Unless the Griz can establish a better post presence where the "bigs" can get into the scoring column much more than they are now, there will be far too much pressure for our guards. Anthony will be covered like glue and is god enough to get his points, but others need to step up big time. Our post presence is lacking and that could be our achilles heel in the tourney.

McGillis does have a grea work ethic and he is inspirational and chases down loose balls and he plays defense, but we need him to get some points and take some of the pressure off. Same for Qvale and Selvig!

I posted McGillis' numbers right above your post. Did you even look at them? While not great numbers, they compare very favorably to comparable players on the team. His shooting percentage is in the same general area as most of the other players on the team. As I said before, he outscores Selving. Also Taylor. McGillis' 6.2 is behind Cherry, Staudacher and Qvale (8.1, 8.6 and 10,3). What do you expect McGillis to do? How much do you want him to score? Also, look at your last paragraph. That says alot about McGillis and what he contributes to the team.

 

[Baller1]

Sorru chump, when you single out players then it is a cheapshot. You don't know shit about Jack, and obviously don't know the game or the Griz well enough to know he is not even playing the position he should be. I wouldn't have a problem with Raason playing more, and some games he plays well, but to lay all the blame at Jack's feet merely demosntrates your lack of knowledge of basketball. There is not one player on the team, or any team for that matter that doesn't have bad games. AJ has won 4 BSC POW awards yet he stunk in 2 games this season, and where were you then? still sniffing his jock I imagine toolboy.

Uh no asshole, when I single out a player for his play, then it's completely fair. You're right, I don't know shit about Jack, thus why I haven't said anything about his character, integrity or the type of person he is. If I said, "Jack's a complete asshole, can't stand him", then that would be a cheap shot, so chill the f*** out. You just can't handle that he isn't good enough to be this all-star player you imagine him to be. I am well aware that he's playing out of position; which is part of the reason why he shouldn't be playing at all. Obviously his position is a big deal, but that doesn't effect his FG% (.431), at least not to the level where it should make a huge difference. Clearly, you need to read closer as well, because I'm not blaming Jack for any of the Griz losses; yet one could make an argument that the Griz play better without him playing a lot of minutes. The only blame I've laid on anyone in this thread is on Jack for his poor play.

Your comparison in bad games between AJ and Jack is hilarious and awful at the same time. Where was I when AJ had bad games? The same place I was when he was having good games: watching good teams play ball, like Nova, or 'Cuse. So grow up, and get over it that Jack just isn't the next Michael Jordan. He's an okay player, but not a Division I starter. Truth hurts sometimes.

Where was I when AJ had bad games? The same place I was when he was having good games: watching good teams play ball, like Nova, or 'Cuse.

So what right do you have to criticize McGillis' play? You are gaining no credibility on this board with statements like this. Next time maybe check your facts or even watch a game before going after individual players on this board. The Griz are playing great basketball and I can only hope that they upset one of your beloved East Coast teams in the first round..... thanks for playing... better luck next time :thumb:

 

[Grizflips]

So what right do you have to criticize McGillis' play? You are gaining no credibility on this board with statements like this. Next time maybe check your facts or even watch a game before going after individual players on this board. The Griz are playing great basketball and I can only hope that they upset one of your beloved East Coast teams in the first round..... thanks for playing... better luck next time :thumb:

I have seen McGillis play a fair amount: Most, if not all of last season's games and I'd say maybe ten or so games this year. Though I do admit in all fairness, maybe that is not enough to form a fair criticism of Jack.

The first round of what though? The NIT? I'd give the Griz the upper hand against Depaul from the Big East...and that's about it.

 

[mtgrizrule]

WOW, McGillis is quite the controversial player when it comes to GRIZNATION having varying opinions of him as a player. Seriously this is one year and one position the arguement is pointless on either side. I admit, I have been critical of Jack at times the last few years. I also expected his transition to be much better statistically than it has been. Those that have expected a lot of him were high on having a local boy do well. Those of us criticizing him or being negative about him, have you thought over our options, and the reasoning behind Jack's or any players minutes and role?

For those that follow this board, upon Strait's graduation I was concerned we did not address enough quality frontline depth, the 4/PF position in particular. Tinkle has recruited the 4 and 5 depth well the past 2 years, but had some tough breaks, and the help is a year away. Hutchison would have helped some this year in rotational minutes at both 4 and 5, he got injured. Selvig is very talented, but limited thanks to an injury also (if and when healthy, he will be a star player.) We will have Reader, but a year away. So we look great here in the future. (kudos to Tinkle for addressing this finally.)

This year this leaves Tinkle with the following realistic options for filling minutes at the 4. Selvig, Banny, Ward, and McGillis

Selvig is giving the GRIZ as much as he can physically in terms of minutes. Many of you do not realize the extent of his injury. At times he is able to look real good with it, other times we are lucky he is even part of the rotation. So that takes Selvig out of the equation for more minutes.

Banny is everything a coach can ask for in a rebounder, hustler, and all heart player. Too bad he is a 4 in a 2's body. At 6'7" plus Banny would be another coming of Rodman, but one cannot give him height. He is limited physically, and at this level, Tinkle has to find minutes and matchups that do not hinder the team. In my opinion Tinkle has done a great job in finding him minutes and the right matchups to use him in. Once again, another player with something that holds him back from getting major minutes.

Ward is a Freshman RS, and has improved over the course of the year. He is a solid scorer and rebounder, but defensively has not been ready for major minutes. In Tinkle's game plan/strategy once again he cannot hand out major minutes to a player that will deter the team in any one aspect. Especially when that player hinder a team that hangs its hat on defense. Ward is good against smaller post players, but when matched up against bigger post players, he is not yet ready to do what Strait did. I feel Ward can be a solid 4 in the BSC, but out of conference and the NCAA tourney, at this stage in his career he will be easily taken out of a game against better competition. Same as McGillis he is a better 3 than a power 4. He needs to get better defensively and develop more physically. He is not ready for major minutes.

McGillis turned out to be an option here, but only by process of elimination and Jack's willingness to take on a huge responsibility. Jack is not a 4, but the best option we were forced into using. Jack can defend the 3 or 4 well, which helps the defense. He is most always in position for rebounds, just comes up short against bigger players. He can take the ball to the hole better than the other options at 4. He is a good passer and takes good care of the ball. He does have a perimeter shot, but it has disappeared this year. Tinkle can rely on Jack more often than our options right now. A healthy Selvig or Hutchison, or more experienced Ward, and we are not even having this discussion about Jack.

So for those on Young's bandwagon, I agree he has a lot of talent, but that talent is nothing more than potential right now. He cannot help us inside, offensively or defensively. He is strictly an athletic swingman, man to man defender, and perimeter shooter. Like Ward, he is inconsistent in zone and man help responsibilities. As of late he has been turnover prone. He is a good ballhandler. He is capable of scoring off the dribble and taking the ball to the hole, in addition to a good perimeter shooter. I have seen enough of him to see he can be the total package, but at this stage he does not consistently have the penetrating as part of his game. Until he adapts that aggressive attitude, he will remain buried this year behind Stauds and Taylor. I have not heard Tinkle comment on that with Young, but I honestly think that is part of the reason behind Young's spot minutes. Tinkle sees more potential and he is not giving him the total game to justify more minutes (reminds me of Austin Swift). Young has to earn those minutes back this year. For his sake he better see this sooner than later, because next year Jammar will push for major minutes, and likely Young will be back to spot minutes. Personally, I like Young better as a 2/SG than a 3/SF.

Finally if Tinkle tries rotating more wing minutes in lieu of the 4/PF position how in the hell are we supposed to defend the paint and rebound consistently? We have already bitched about both those things before when the GRIZ were struggling for a short stretch. Those things would again get worse. Tinkle and the players are doing the best they can with what we have to work with, and that is all we can ask for. Realistically speaking there just is not any other viable options for us to explore without hurting the team. So does this make better sense now on both sides of the McGillis debate?

 

[Grizflips]

Realistically speaking there just is not any other viable options for us to explore without hurting the team. So does this make better sense now on both sides of the McGillis debate?

It does, and I apologize for causing quite the fuss over McGillis.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Realistically speaking there just is not any other viable options for us to explore without hurting the team. So does this make better sense now on both sides of the McGillis debate?

It does, and I apologize for causing quite the fuss over McGillis.

For the record, I understand and respect both sides on McGillis. In Jack's defense though, I wanted to speak out on this. I feel Jack was getting a little too much uncalled negativity. Honestly, I have a good feeling about this team right now, regardless of how and who manages the minutes at 4/PF?

This team comes and goes with our perimeter shooting. The guards have to remain aggressive though.

 

[Potomac Griz]

I think we all can agree that McGillis hustles his ass off and is giving 100% out there. In a post player you really like to see higher FG% than in the low 40s. For example, Qvale is at 63% (which is incredibly high) and Ward is at 54.24%. McGillis (much like Banny) is an undersized 4 though, which is why his numbers look more like a 2 or 3's FG% than a 4 at this point. What is usually a high percentage shot for a big guy like Qvale becomes a much tougher shot when you are quite a bit smaller than the guy guarding you and more comfortable playing the 3. So McGillis has to take more outside shots (lowering his FG%) and it's quite a bit tougher for him to get a good shot off underneath.

It must be very tough as well as frustrating for a senior like McGillis to have to switch positions like this his last year. He's sacrificing quite a bit for the team there to try to fill a hole that the team needs filled. He's obviously willing to do whatever it takes to help the team out. Same with Banny. He plays very physical defense down there, and rarely gets backed down by guys much bigger than him...but being 6'3" is quite a disadvantage. I have to agree with mtgrizrule about Banny...you stick him in a 6'7" body and you got a stronger Dennis Rodman.

I put together a spreadsheet earlier this year, and just now updated it with current stats. This shows what the players average per X number of minutes of time in the game. Obviously this doesn't show everything, since many things in a game don't show up on the stat sheet. It is somewhat interesting to look at though. If anyone wants to look at the full thing with all the players who get a fair amount of minutes, the one that requires Open Office (free) is Here. For the Microsoft Excel version, click Here. To change the number of minutes it shows stats for, change the number where it says X Minutes = at the top. There's an html one up too (to view in a browser) but you can't change the number of minutes (it's set to 40) on it. It's Here. The Green colored stats are leaders in that category.

Looking at the post players, per 40 minutes of play time, the stats look like this:

Qvale: (15.85 pts, 10.22 Reb)
6.07/9.58 FG 63.3%, 3.71/5.05 FT 73.42%, 2.88 OReb, 7.35 DReb, 10.22 Tot,
4.6 PF, 0.96 Assists, 1.34 TO, 3 BLK, 0.83 STL, 15.85 PTS

McGillis: (10.98 pts, 6.75 Reb)
4.16/9.65 FG 43.08%, 0.74/3.04 3PT 24.39%, 1.93/3.12 FT 61.90%, 2.23 OReb, 4.53 DReb, 6.75 Tot,
5.49 PF, 2.23 Assists, 2 Turnovers, 0.37 BLK, 1.19 STL, 10.98 PTS

Selvig: (10.76 pts, 10.04 Reb)
4.02/8.67 FG 46.3%, 1.29/3.53 3PT 36.36%, 1.45/2.25 FT 64.29%, 2.81 OReb, 7.23 DReb, 10.04 Tot,
4.9 PF, 3.78 Assists, 3.78 TO, 1.2 BLK, 0.96 STL, 10.76 PTS

Banny: (6.33 pts, 12.84 Reb)
2.23/5.21 FG 42.86%, 1.86/2.79 FT 66.67%, 3.16 OReb, 9.67 DReb, 12.84 Tot,
5.02 PF, 0.74 Assists, 3.72 TO, 0.19 BLK, 1.86 STL, 6.33 PTS

Ward: (14.22 pts, 7.82 Reb)
5.69/10.49 FG 54.24%, 2.84/3.73 FT 76.19%, 2.67 OReb, 5.16 DReb, 7.82 Tot,
5.51 PF, 1.07 Assists, 2.84 TO, 0.18 BLK, 1.07 STL, 14.22 PTS

Interpret these anyway you want. Again I know this doesn't take into account anything that doesn't show up in the stats, like size, how well they play zone defense, etc etc... Just figured I'd post them, even though many people probably expected what shows up there (Qvale being the best scorer per minute, Banny the best rebounder, etc). Ward was kind of a surprise to me though.

Since this topic originally was about Young, here are the stats of Young, Taylor and Stauds for 40 minutes of time played:

Stauds: (11.69 pts, 2.62 Reb)
3.98/8.86 FG 44.97%, 2.94/6.61 3PT 44.44%, 0.79/0.94 FT 83.33%, 0.37 OReb, 2.25 DReb, 2.62 Tot,
1.63 PF, 1.73 Assists, 0.73 TO, 0.79 STL, 11.69 PTS

Taylor: (10.86 pts, 3.98 Reb)
3.87/8.39 FG 46.15%, 2.47/6.13 3PT 40.35%, 0.65/0.75 FT 85.71%, 0.54 OReb, 3.44 DReb, 3.98 Tot,
3.01 PF, 1.94 Assists, 1.4 TO, 1.4 STL, 10.86 PTS

Young: (14.48 pts, 4.04 Reb)
5.7/12.94 FG 44.04%, 2.97/6.53 3PT 45.45%, 0.12/0.36 FT 33.33%, 0.83 OReb, 3.2 DReb, 4.04 Tot,
3.32 PF, 1.07 Assists, 2.49 TO, 0.59 STL, 14.48 PTS

Even with the past couple of games being rough games for Young, his turnovers per 40 minutes actually aren't that high. It's 7th on the team (behind AJ, Cherry, Selvig, Banny, Ward and Stockton).

Anyway, just thought these were somewhat interesting. I do wish Young would get more minutes...especially when one of our other wings is having trouble getting open looks.


.

 

[PlayerRep]

Shooting perentages of posts is impacted by the number of 3-pt shots taken (as well as the percentage made). McGillis is shooting 51.7%, excluding 3-pt. shots. Qvale and Ward have not take a 3. Banny, who is shooting 42.9%, has taken only 1 3-pt shot. Excluding 3's, Selvig is shooting 53.1%. McGillis and Selvig are shooting 24.4% (10-41) and 36.4% (16-44) from 3-pt range. Cherry is 3-22 from 3-pt range.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Sorru chump, when you single out players then it is a cheapshot. You don't know shit about Jack, and obviously don't know the game or the Griz well enough to know he is not even playing the position he should be. I wouldn't have a problem with Raason playing more, and some games he plays well, but to lay all the blame at Jack's feet merely demosntrates your lack of knowledge of basketball. There is not one player on the team, or any team for that matter that doesn't have bad games. AJ has won 4 BSC POW awards yet he stunk in 2 games this season, and where were you then? still sniffing his jock I imagine toolboy.

Uh no asshole, when I single out a player for his play, then it's completely fair. You're right, I don't know shit about Jack, thus why I haven't said anything about his character, integrity or the type of person he is. If I said, "Jack's a complete asshole, can't stand him", then that would be a cheap shot, so chill the f*** out. You just can't handle that he isn't good enough to be this all-star player you imagine him to be. I am well aware that he's playing out of position; which is part of the reason why he shouldn't be playing at all. Obviously his position is a big deal, but that doesn't effect his FG% (.431), at least not to the level where it should make a huge difference. Clearly, you need to read closer as well, because I'm not blaming Jack for any of the Griz losses; yet one could make an argument that the Griz play better without him playing a lot of minutes. The only blame I've laid on anyone in this thread is on Jack for his poor play.

Your comparison in bad games between AJ and Jack is hilarious and awful at the same time. Where was I when AJ had bad games? The same place I was when he was having good games: watching good teams play ball, like Nova, or 'Cuse. So grow up, and get over it that Jack just isn't the next Michael Jordan. He's an okay player, but not a Division I starter. Truth hurts sometimes.

Listen up pfuckwad, i never imagined jack to be anything, other than a good student, and a good person, anything else is your preconceived notion which is pretty much worthless, like your post. So keep on ripping on individual players if it makes you feel better about your own sorry ass. I bet you were always picked LAST in gym class and were frequently pointed to and laughed at in the showers. :jack:

 

[jbear]

Yes, of course I've looked at the numbers. You're right! Not great numbers even though they compare favoribly to comparable players on the team. You've made my point for me.

I will say it again... We need more scoring from our 4 and 5 players. If we don't get it, we don't go far in the tourney.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Shooting perentages of posts is impacted by the number of 3-pt shots taken (as well as the percentage made). McGillis is shooting 51.7%, excluding 3-pt. shots. Qvale and Ward have not take a 3. Banny, who is shooting 42.9%, has taken only 1 3-pt shot. Excluding 3's, Selvig is shooting 53.1%. McGillis and Selvig are shooting 24.4% (10-41) and 36.4% (16-44) from 3-pt range. Cherry is 3-22 from 3-pt range.

I definitely agree, it's not entirely fair to rate our posts exclusively based on their FG%. If my previous post came off that way, it wasn't what I intended. Our group of posts all have different strengths out there, and a couple of them are really wings that were forced into playing the post this year to fill a hole.

Ward and Qvale have the size and post experience so that their FG%s are fairly high. As PlayerRep pointed out, they don't take many outside shots. McGillis and Selvig take a fair amount of shots from outside which will lower their FG%. Selvig does have some real nice post moves though. McGillis and Banny both are very much undersized (Banny more so than McGillis in height), so if they do try to post up on someone, it's going to be all that more difficult to get a good look inside unless they completely out quick the other guy.

I think it's very encouraging to see Banny being more aggressive on offense and using his quickness more lately. In the last 4 games he's 7-12 shooting. Both McGillis and Banny are doing everything they can inside for their sizes and both bust their asses every game out there. Honestly I'd like to see McGillis try to use his quickness inside more often too. Chances are he's going to be a lot quicker than the post from the opposing team.

Sometimes I have to admit I get a little frustrated with McGillis and the fouls...but that's just part of his game....he plays like he just washed down a handful of caffeine pills with a 6 pack of red bull. Occasionally that ends with him mugging someone out there and ending up in foul trouble quickly. That intensity and hustle has been what's made McGillis a lot of fun to watch and a big contributor to the Griz success though too. As we've seen if there's a loose ball on the court McGillis is probably on the floor going for it.

This team as a whole has a lot of heart and a lot of players who bust their asses out there. Some of them may not be the quickest or most talented on the court at times, but there rarely seems to be a lack of hustle. I really have high hopes for the Griz in the big sky tournament this year. This season (minus that loss to EWU..ugh...) is reminding me a bit of the first season with Coach K... The Griz didn't win the regular season title, but peaked towards the end of conference.

 

[jbear]

I did see the numbers. And you are right..they are not that good. That's the problem.

As I said before, I hope we can see some improvement in scoring from our big guys. I'd like to see McGillis average 10 a game and Qvale should be higher if he can stay out of foul trouble. We need to balance the scoring more than we are doing. Anthony wn't get many easy looks. so who among our big men will take some of the pressure off?