Griz Bball under coach Tinkle

[Baller1]

Man, I hope you're right.

I'll buy, if you are right!! Gladly...

I'm on board as well.... I can only hope that come tourney time next year I'll be eating a big fat Crow... and Tinkle will be a shitty coach... nevermore... nevermore.... nevermore....

 

[GrizLA]

Geezuz...what is it about this board that brings out the anger and animosity of so many....you indicated that UM was not big time and I beg to differ from you...I have seen Montana women beat the best of Big 10, Pac 10, ACC....get a clue....you certainly don't have an idea...perhaps you should step out of your county and see a little of the world, toots...As for Tinkle as coach, he doesn't seem to have the fire or possibly just cannot transfer it to the men....he might do better in women's bball....the Griz are a bad team and have been for the past 2 years. Sorry, you feel less than.....by the way, I am also a Stanford grad....by your attitude, that would make me big time....funny, we didn't feel all that big playing and losing to the likes of Montana....and some of my classes at the Farm were not as challenging as some in Missoula....hate to disappoint you...

Your post could have been made in your opening sentence... guess you needed to drop the "Stanford Grad" line....congrats on a first rate education..... I am not disappointed in the least that you had a more challenging class at UM then at Stanford....I am a graduate of neither institution, so there is no need for you to jump to a conclusion on my behalf......... and what does that have to do with Wayne Tinkle? As far as "big time" goes I was referring to Stanford's woman's basketball program which is a perennial national power very much unlike our beloved lady griz.... we are a solid mid-major and have been for many years.... and we deserve to be proud of it..... but if you want to maintain any credibility on this board I would advise you not to be so bold as to say we are on the same level as Stanford athletically....this board will quickly eat you up for making such ridiculous statements....as for the rest of your rambling... toots? step out of my county? not only is that irrelevant to the thread but honestly makes no sense...... Now as for your views on Tinkle as a coach.....I agree with you.... he may be better suited for the womens game..... or I could even see him as a wonderful HS Admin/basketball coach... maybe at a large HS back in Spokane, WA..... as for a Div. 1 mens basketball coach?? he has showed me nothing other than an ability to recruit.... heres hoping Wayne can get it done these next three years....

Sorry, think small.....that will get you far....

 

[DoubleNicks]

I will first say i am not a big follower of the LG. Same as the men i think the womens program is overrated as well by us the fans. Three of the teams listed above are bottom feeders in those conferences not the best of.Miami (13-17,2-12), Washington(7-21,3-15), Illinois(10-21,5-13), Wisconsin(18-14,6-12). These are are real questions as i am not sure of the answers. When was the last time we beat a ranked team? When was the last time we were ranked and for how long? When was the last time we won a tourney game? What is the farthest we have gone in the tourney? How many tourney wins do we have period? When was the last time we were a single digit seed in the tourney? I dont think there is a single BIG TIME who really fears us or knows anything about our program until they are seeded with us and their coach talks us up.

LG might not be in the same company as the nation's top 5-15 teams every year but they have shown they can compete with about everybody outside of that on a pretty consistent basis...

Last time LG nationally ranked: '06-'07 (LG ranked 25th in AP after the last regular season game and a 27-2 record...then lost to NAU in BSC tourney. Before that, the LG haven't been ranked since '93-'94 season)
Last LG tourney win: Beat 5th seeded San Diego State 57-46 in '94-'95 season (had also beaten 10th seeded UNLV 77-67 the year before and then lost by 4 points to Stanford who was a 2 seed. Year before that, LG also won a first round game against 6th seeded Wisconsin 85-74 before falling to 3rd seeded USC)
Overall NCAA tourney record (since 1982): 6-17 (have never advanced further than the 2nd round)
17 Appearances in the 26 years of the NCAA tourney
Last single digit seed: seeded 9th in '96-'97
Highest seed: 4th (twice), in '87-'88 (controversial lose to #5 Stanford 72-74 in OT) and '83-'84

 

[DoubleNicks]

LG own WINNING records against such teams as: Boise State (38-12), Brigham Young (8-3), California (3-1), Colorado (2-1), Colorado State (4-3), Gonzaga (17-9), Idaho (33-7), Iowa State (2-0), Memphis (1-0), Minnesota (1-0), Mississippi (1-0), Nevada (14-1), Notre Dame (1-0), Oklahoma (1-0), Old Dominion (1-0), Pacific (3-1), Pepperdine (2-0), Princeton (2-0), St. John's (1-0), San Diego State (2-1), Syracuse (2-0), TCU (1-0), Utah (12-10), Utah State (5-2), Washington State (21-9), Wisconsin (1-0), Wright State (1-0), and Wyoming (8-3) just to name some of the big names...

LG also are even with teams like: Florida State (1-1), Iowa (1-1), Miami (1-1), Nebraska (2-2), and Stanford (2-2)...so maybe they are in the same company as Stanford haha.

Funny thing is, is some of the teams the LG have losing records against are unheard-ofs like: Central Washington (0-3), Seattle Pacific (0-2), Wayland Baptist (0-1), West Texas (0-1), Western Oregon (0-2), and Western Washington (1-2).

 

[islander]

Holst got us to the tourney and got fired. Tinks hasn't got us anywhere and he's still around.

P.S.
Using Jos as bait is not true at all. Tinks may not be a great coach but he's professional.

Holst sat right in front of me at the mens game. He was standing and cheering the whole game. He's a good guy and got the shaft.

Unlike Mike Montgomery and Wayne Tinkle, Holst DID NOT choke away the big games.

 

[BelierPeaux]

Double Nicks, thanks for the research. I've been wondering about recent history with the Lady Griz. Not that you have to, but could you do the same for the Men? Or even just give a link that might have that info?

 

[Silvertip]

If this were a big money program ie Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State or UCLA there would be enough program supporters to buy out a failed coach. Unfortunately, this is Montana where money (especially now) is always in short supply... Oh, where are those one year contracts when you need one? O'Day, Dennison and The Regents' first roll of the dice has come up snake eyes.

 

[Hammer]

It seems to me Tinkles teams lack toughness and heart. Have to see how it goes next year if it's a .500 type season it may be time for a change.

 

[Sugar Bear 16]

Well, he certainly had the talent but, the talent never meshed into anything other than average. I just don't see a lot of passion out there in the players eyes. When LK was coaching those guys would run through 10 brick walls if he asked them to. If he can't get players to play harder or play with more pride and honor then he needs to go or he needs to find players that will.

 

[robomomo]

it'll be fun re-reading all these posts a year from now when woods and cherry arrive, selvig gets healthy and mathias ward steps onto the court for the first time, all to join a.j. there's some big-time talent in the wings, and ya'll gonna be eatin' some big-time crow this time next year.

I hope so, but can you honestly say that Tinkle will be able to develop the talent? I don't think any of his players have gotten better under his direction.

 

[DoubleNicks]

Double Nicks, thanks for the research. I've been wondering about recent history with the Lady Griz. Not that you have to, but could you do the same for the Men? Or even just give a link that might have that info?

The men's info isn't as convenient to find (maybe because of the longer history). I took the women's info mostly from the History .pdf on montanagrizzlies.com. There's a similar one for the men at:
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies...mediaguides/mbasketball/2008-09/8_history.pdf
page 8 has the men's postseason history

Those .pdfs on the Griz site are neat, if you haven't seen them. Somebody put a lot of time and effort into them. I liked this one especially:
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies...es/ladygriz/2008-09 media guide/Lady Griz.pdf
It's the LG player profiles with interviews, etc.

 

[Grizfan-24]

I look at this way, despite others wranglings about nepotism, incompetantcy and where the program is truly headed, that we are better off as a program under Tinkle than in the past.

First the nadir of the program unfortunately was the 6-7 years under Holst and Kennedy. No matter what spin you want to put on it, there were some unfortunate things that occurred under their watches. Decline in attendance (not all of their faults) and poor showings in conference.

Second, despite what people think of Tinkle personally, he is good if not great for the program. First he is a great champion of all things past and present grizzly. He respects the school, the tradition and all things Grizzly. No matter his shortcomings (perceived or otherwise), he has the personality to be the guy to run the program. Second, the program talent wise seems to be improved. He is recruiting athletes, and now he has to coach them up. The talent level is 100 times better this year than it was two years ago. Now there have been missing pieces and Tinkle is to or should hold the blame for some of those shortcomings, but he has given himself the ability to avial himself of those choices.

Regardless of others opinions, the very fact that he was able to do three things this year has saved himself in my eyes:
1. Recover from early season troubles. I didn't have confidence early in the year, but finishing the year with a limited roster (CET, Selvig and Banny being injured) with success. This team could have easily been 10-17 and missed the conference tournament.
2. Bring passion back to Dahlberg. I want that more than anything else. Saturday's finish wasn't what he hoped, but he could be the head coach to restore passion to that arena. You can dislike his coaching abilities but frankly he is a easy guy to like. Me thinks that his ability to bring passion will spill over to the kids.
3. My criticism of him before this year is that we couldn't play defense. We can now. He showed enough pride to go outside the program and hire a defensive whiz. I think the emphasis on that brings us back to the 80's when there were few programs in the BSC and outside that played tougher defense than us. With athleticism that we will have (improved) next year we stand to be able to stifle things defensively.

 

[BelierPeaux]

Double Nicks, thanks for the research. I've been wondering about recent history with the Lady Griz. Not that you have to, but could you do the same for the Men? Or even just give a link that might have that info?

The men's info isn't as convenient to find (maybe because of the longer history). I took the women's info mostly from the History .pdf on montanagrizzlies.com. There's a similar one for the men at:
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies...mediaguides/mbasketball/2008-09/8_history.pdf
page 8 has the men's postseason history

Those .pdfs on the Griz site are neat, if you haven't seen them. Somebody put a lot of time and effort into them. I liked this one especially:
http://filemanager.montanagrizzlies...es/ladygriz/2008-09 media guide/Lady Griz.pdf
It's the LG player profiles with interviews, etc.

Thanks for the links! There's some good info in there.

 

[Sugar Bear 16]

I look at this way, despite others wranglings about nepotism, incompetantcy and where the program is truly headed, that we are better off as a program under Tinkle than in the past.

First the nadir of the program unfortunately was the 6-7 years under Holst and Kennedy. No matter what spin you want to put on it, there were some unfortunate things that occurred under their watches. Decline in attendance (not all of their faults) and poor showings in conference.

Second, despite what people think of Tinkle personally, he is good if not great for the program. First he is a great champion of all things past and present grizzly. He respects the school, the tradition and all things Grizzly. No matter his shortcomings (perceived or otherwise), he has the personality to be the guy to run the program. Second, the program talent wise seems to be improved. He is recruiting athletes, and now he has to coach them up. The talent level is 100 times better this year than it was two years ago. Now there have been missing pieces and Tinkle is to or should hold the blame for some of those shortcomings, but he has given himself the ability to avial himself of those choices.

Regardless of others opinions, the very fact that he was able to do three things this year has saved himself in my eyes:
1. Recover from early season troubles. I didn't have confidence early in the year, but finishing the year with a limited roster (CET, Selvig and Banny being injured) with success. This team could have easily been 10-17 and missed the conference tournament.
2. Bring passion back to Dahlberg. I want that more than anything else. Saturday's finish wasn't what he hoped, but he could be the head coach to restore passion to that arena. You can dislike his coaching abilities but frankly he is a easy guy to like. Me thinks that his ability to bring passion will spill over to the kids.
3. My criticism of him before this year is that we couldn't play defense. We can now. He showed enough pride to go outside the program and hire a defensive whiz. I think the emphasis on that brings us back to the 80's when there were few programs in the BSC and outside that played tougher defense than us. With athleticism that we will have (improved) next year we stand to be able to stifle things defensively.

What defensive whiz did he bring in? Because, Evans was not know for his defensive teams at SU.

Is Tinkle easy to like and good for PR? Yes but, that doesn't equal wins and conference championships which, a lot of fans would rather see, especially when you have the talent to get it done. Saturday's game came down to the battle on the boards which the griz lost badly. Defensive and passionate teams win those battles and they win them becuase, their coaches make sure they are prepared and willing to do what it takes to win those battles. Saturday's game is a too common occurance in Tinkle's tenure thus far and it's not going to change not matter how many contract ext. or talented players his staff brings in. He's just not D1 head coaching material, sorry but, he's not. O'Day does not have the courage to tell him its time to either poop or get off the pot.

 

[Grizfan-24]

Evans rep in the region was that he could coach defense. I had been to three or four coaches clinics with him in presense and a number of veteran high school and college coaches considered him to be amongst the best. I listened to him talk about matchup zone principles as well pressure man defense, and to my humble opinion he knows how to talk about it and coach it.

 

[Sugar Bear 16]

Evans rep in the region was that he could coach defense. I had been to three or four coaches clinics with him in presense and a number of veteran high school and college coaches considered him to be amongst the best. I listened to him talk about matchup zone principles as well pressure man defense, and to my humble opinion he knows how to talk about it and coach it.

I know Ken Carrillo who worked with him his last 2 to 3 seasons and I was given a different take on his coaching abilites and being a defensive whiz was not one of them.

 

[mtgrizrule]

As a whole there has to be credit given somewhere being the Defense improved drastically from the prior 2 years. If no credit given to Evans, then credit Tinkle. The improvement happens to coincide with Evans arrival. If we searched hard enough there will be people with good and bad opinions of anyone. So one person not thinking highly of Evans is just that, big deal.

I too have heard a few things about all our coaches with opinions from Missoula, Seattle, Denver, and many places within 2,000 miles of Missoula. As for the opinions I have heard Evans is that he gets alot more out of his players on defense than most coaches do. As evidenced by this year, I think that was pretty accurate of this years GRIZ defense. Mind you, I have heard more good opinions about him than bad. Coaches I have talked to range from HS, AAU, and collegiate coaches, ages from mid 20's to late 60's.

Just because I have heard more good than bad about him, does that make any one opinion right or wrong? In my opinion the defense was drastically improved and someone was responsible for it. Was it Tinkle or Evans, or combination of everyone grasping and believing in it? We do not know, but I think they proved themselves of being a very good defensive team finally. Give someone credit, even if you do not like said person or program.

 

[bobaloo]

Citay: We all get pumped up from reading recruiting bios. Famous last words "can't wait until next year with the new recruits" How many times has everybody said those lines only to be let down. You have spoken several times about the deficiency in Tinkle's approach to developing talent. From freshmen to upperclassmen the improvement is lacking. My concern is he does not create any intensity or passion in the players. They pretty much played school yard basketball with very little purpose on offense. AJ being the exception. The defense was a ray of sunshine though. With the new class coming in they still have to rebound, set crisp picks, get the ball inside, move without the ball, pass efficiently etc. Freshmen tend to need some adjustment time in getting ready for DI ball They will need to bring their own passion and intensity with them. While I would like nothing better than to sit down with you and share some fine dining of crow I am afraid it will be a bland dinner without much flavor or spice. The wine would be good however. I would love to see Tinkle have a breakout year as he is truly a nice guy but his coaching style concerns me to this point. However Weber did it this year with a whole new team and no experienced players.

 

[General Disarray]

17-15
14-16
17-12

It wasn't a great ending, but it was Tinkle's best season yet. I don't think that one disappointing 17-12 season is more harmful to the long-term "health" of the program than a reputation of changing coaches every 2-4 years. Tinkle's here to stay. Get used to it. Next year's team will be poised to win 20 games.

 

[cclarkblues]

Just wait till next year!











Wait, are we starting to sound like Cubs' fans?