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Griz Basketball interest?

IamYou said:
The basketball program needs more backing by the University of Montana. It's pathetic. Most students do not even know that there are games sometimes as they are not advertised. If they dumped some serious money into promoting and selling it to the campus and Missoula as an amazing experience like they do football, it would not be a problem getting 7-8,000 a game.
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A very valid post. UM basketball gets about 1% as much marketing as UM football.
 
scapegoat griz said:
While I agree that moving the students made a big difference, I think what is hurting us now is the schedule we are playing. I'm not badmouthing our scheduling by any means, but back in the early 90's when we had rivals like Nevada, Boise, and Idaho here every year it was much better.
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A concern that should not be lost upon the football folks...
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Winning is the only thing that will bring in the crowds. There's no better marketing tool.
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I disagree. Below is avg attendance since Kennedy departing. I will give into 04/05. 05/06 attendance improved, but still well below past standards. Considering the griz come from nowhere to make the NCAA's, in 04/05 and hanging with UW for 16 minutes.

Enter 05/06, attendance improves mainly due to more student support. However numbers are very skewed considering 4 games with 1 major, 1 ranked mid major, and our 2 nearest conference rivals MSU/EWU, the other 10 home games were very badly attended considering the year we came off and 10 game winning streak.

Point is, the GRIZ did win, yet the community came nowhere near embracing the 05/06 squad game in/game out. See the below stats/figures. It represents that people attend for our biggest rivals, and highly ranked teams. MSU and EWU fans were reason for attendance increase for those 2. Where is the support for the other games? Are we GRIZ fans are we fans of the opposition?

IMHO, 05/06 GRIZ did their part. We as fans for reasons beyond me did not do our part. The fan base let last year's team down at home for the most part. They deserved much better public support last year. I will give regarding attendance during football games in november. I will give on nonconference noncompetitive matchups.

However, every conference game in a 1 bid conference is CRUCIAL. These are the games that need to be and should be much better attended IMHO. Speaking of home conference games, they went undefeated in those games in 05/06, 1 home loss in 04/05. Is that not winning? Sounds like the team did just that. Doing just as stated regarding winning. Why the lack of support?

2005/06 Home games-Avg/Game.... 14-4977
2004/05 Home games-Avg/Game.... 14-3472

Stanford- 6929; UW-Milwaukee- 7213; MSU- 6617; EWU- 6659
Rest of home conference games: ISU- 4111; Weber St- 5584;
PSU- 4908, Sac St- 4121, NAU- 5816
Bracketbuster- Oral Roberts 3912

Now 06/07 home conference schedule is approaching us. I am challenging every EGRIZZER and all of GRIZNATION to support this team. The last 2 years, they have earned our home support to be much better. They have done their part by winning at home. There are no excuses. Do not tell me this year's team is not worthy. This is the year, this team just may need fan encouragement to get these boys over the hump. Tinks needs to know we support them regardless of W's and L's. Fans of any program are supposed to see their teams through good and bad times. The fan base is part of building a program, as proven by the football program. Griznation is capable of being amongst the best fans in the nation. We have the reputation in football and used to in basketball. No reason we cannot be both.

As for basketball, we have a few die hards. I see those faces every home game. For the most part, we are fair weathered basketball fans. I am challenging everyone to prove me wrong this conference season. I am sure Tinks would appreciate the support. It's much easier to motivate players with fans in the stands. When that is the case a coach can say to the team, "Do not let these fans down, go put on a show for them. They are here for us!!!" On the other hand, not so motivating when there is a near 1/2 empty gym. Every fan in attendance can make a difference!!! The fans say we need players to show leadership. I agree, but yet trying to practice what I preach. I as a fan want to show leadership by at the very least being there for this program, during good and bad times.

Lets fill the house and have fun this year and help be part of building a basketball legacy to be proud of. I know your support will be appreciated by the team. Please support them and see what happens, they have earned it the last 2 years. Let's all step up to the plate!!!!
 
mtgrizrule said:
AllWeatherFan said:
Winning is the only thing that will bring in the crowds. There's no better marketing tool.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Below is avg attendance since Kennedy departing. I will give into 04/05. 05/06 attendance improved, but still well below past standards. Considering the griz come from nowhere to make the NCAA's, in 04/05 and hanging with UW for 16 minutes.

Enter 05/06, attendance improves mainly due to more student support. However numbers are very skewed considering 4 games with 1 major, 1 ranked mid major, and our 2 nearest conference rivals MSU/EWU, the other 10 home games were very badly attended considering the year we came off and 10 game winning streak.

Point is, the GRIZ did win, yet the community came nowhere near embracing the 05/06 squad game in/game out. See the below stats/figures. It represents that people attend for our biggest rivals, and highly ranked teams. MSU and EWU fans were reason for attendance increase for those 2. Where is the support for the other games? Are we GRIZ fans are we fans of the opposition?

IMHO, 05/06 GRIZ did their part. We as fans for reasons beyond me did not do our part. The fan base let last year's team down at home for the most part. They deserved much better public support last year. I will give regarding attendance during football games in november. I will give on nonconference noncompetitive matchups.

However, every conference game in a 1 bid conference is CRUCIAL. These are the games that need to be and should be much better attended IMHO. Speaking of home conference games, they went undefeated in those games in 05/06, 1 home loss in 04/05. Is that not winning? Sounds like the team did just that. Doing just as stated regarding winning. Why the lack of support?

2005/06 Home games-Avg/Game.... 14-4977
2004/05 Home games-Avg/Game.... 14-3472

Stanford- 6929; UW-Milwaukee- 7213; MSU- 6617; EWU- 6659
Rest of home conference games: ISU- 4111; Weber St- 5584;
PSU- 4908, Sac St- 4121, NAU- 5816
Bracketbuster- Oral Roberts 3912

Now 06/07 home conference schedule is approaching us. I am challenging every EGRIZZER and all of GRIZNATION to support this team. The last 2 years, they have earned our home support to be much better. They have done their part by winning at home. There are no excuses. Do not tell me this year's team is not worthy. This is the year, this team just may need fan encouragement to get these boys over the hump. Tinks needs to know we support them regardless of W's and L's. Fans of any program are supposed to see their teams through good and bad times. The fan base is part of building a program, as proven by the football program. Griznation is capable of being amongst the best fans in the nation. We have the reputation in football and used to in basketball. No reason we cannot be both.

As for basketball, we have a few die hards. I see those faces every home game. For the most part, we are fair weathered basketball fans. I am challenging everyone to prove me wrong this conference season. I am sure Tinks would appreciate the support. It's much easier to motivate players with fans in the stands. When that is the case a coach can say to the team, "Do not let these fans down, go put on a show for them. They are here for us!!!" On the other hand, not so motivating when there is a near 1/2 empty gym. Every fan in attendance can make a difference!!! The fans say we need players to show leadership. I agree, but yet trying to practice what I preach. I as a fan want to show leadership by at the very least being there for this program, during good and bad times.

Lets fill the house and have fun this year and help be part of building a basketball legacy to be proud of. I know your support will be appreciated by the team. Please support them and see what happens, they have earned it the last 2 years. Let's all step up to the plate!!!!
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Winning one year doesn't win fan support. Look at it like a one hit wonder band. Their concerts sell out that year but that year only. Meanwhile the Stones can sell out concerts year after year after year because they are a consistent performer. :twocents:
 
I guess that is where we disagree as fans. As soon as it was announced that Kennedy was gone. I was open to supporting any new coach. I have been a GRIZ fan my whole life, especially basketball.

I have supported every new football and basketball coach from the get go. Kennedy was the only coach that lost my interest and support, after letting time take its course. I admittedly welcomed change with open arms regarding the basketball program. I believe in supporting the university decisons' from the get go when we bring a new football or basketball coach on board. No reason not to welcome the change positively. Then in time let the new coach lose or keep my interest.

I admit, it was more magnified personally for me with LK and WT. The reason for that is they are alumnis. They were role models for me growing up. I idolized GRIZ basketball then, in the same way kids in this generation idolize football players. Them being alumni, alone was huge to me, and much easier for me to get behind. Which I have, and will continue to as long as WT is here.

I respect the other side of this. Honestly feel this program and Tinks deserve much better support regardless of W's and L's. LK and WT worked hard to bring back respect. They both care about the history, the players, the community, and all that should be cared about as HCs for this university.. The players and coaches are great people off the court. Missoula is a college town. In turn these athletes are like family to many. Many fans have life's revolving around athletics here. For a few, almost like life and death. Very few question that being the case in football. I feel the basketball team also should be deserving of more support and the benefit of the doubt on any given season. WT or any coach should not be penalized for a past coach bringing a program of any sport down. The hiring of a new coach is a new start for any program. Fan support makes that transition much easier and enjoyable for that coach and every player.

I think it is a shame we are so fair weathered when it comes to the basketball program!!! Yes, I want to be proven wrong , sooner than later please!!!!
 
Spanky agrees with most of your points mtgrizrule, but would like to submit a further thought as follows: Perhaps UM basketball fans are weary of the lack of quality teams on our schedule, thus they may not be interested in watching lesser talent. As you know, they are exposed to quality basketball on national television with teams from conferences like the ACC and they are no longer interested in watching Big Sky Conference basketball whose teams are far less talented. Marketing will no doubt help the program, however, this challenge will exist until we make a change in our conference membership.
 
Spanky said:
Spanky agrees with most of your points mtgrizrule, but would like to submit a further thought as follows: Perhaps UM basketball fans are weary of the lack of quality teams on our schedule, thus they may not be interested in watching lesser talent. As you know, they are exposed to quality basketball on national television with teams from conferences like the ACC and they are no longer interested in watching Big Sky Conference basketball whose teams are far less talented. Marketing will no doubt help the program, however, this challenge will exist until we make a change in our conference membership.
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I agree with you 100% regarding schedule. Once again, we are GRIZ fans, not fans of our opponents!!! Fact is part of the reason we do not have better conference affiliation is because of the public outcry against moving up in football. Yet many of the same outcriers bitch about our basketball schedule. Also better attendance, better fan reputation creates $ and interest to bring in better opponents!!!! That is reasoning for better fan support. If one is bitching about the schedule, yet not supporting the team at home, you have no right to bitch. Your attendance would help in paying for better teams coming in. I support the basketball and football program regardless. We cannot have the best of both worlds as fans with our tie in with the BSC.

Trying to not to turn this into a move up or stay thread. That is beating a dead horse. Fact is the move positively impacts every other sport. I will leave it that!!!!
 
Side note on schedule, VA TECH turns out to be damn good this year. I just watched them beat DUKE 69-67. No small task, at DUKE!!!!
 
you can't talk about the glory years of montana basketball without talking about the opponents. how about when idaho came in undefeated with a top ten ranking. or boise state when they had chris childs. or weber state when the had "the show" arceneaux or before that when they had bruce collins and that big seven footer? it's self-evident that quality opponents and star players will attract larger crowds. how can you compare gonzaga or nevada today with sac state and idaho state? interest on the griz board spikes when we take on challenging opponents. rodney stuckey aside, given the makeup of the big sky now, with the departure of idaho, boise state and nevada, we simply will not be seeing the quality teams and future stars we saw a decade ago. i mean, who wants to come out in the freezing cold to watch northern colorado or sac state or even idaho state. these are just not the teams, stars or games that great memories and legendary matchups are made of.

i mean, what if gonzaga and nevada were still in the big sky. any doubt they'd sell our dahlberg?
 
No doubt City. Further, competing against them will make our team better, not to mention membership in their conference will draw athletes with more talent to play at UM. Finally, it will increase attendance wich translates to more revenue. What is the down side?
 
Regarding opponents, what does the university do? They have a few options, fans are part of the equation either way.

(1) Change conferences by moving up in football? Public outcry would split our biggest revenue sport, yet benefit every other sport.

(2) Keep things as they are for conference affiliation. However, this is where support from fans is even huger. IMHO this means fans understanding, big name out of conference opponents do not just come to MT until 2 things are there to attract them.
A. Sellouts and bigtime basketball environment.
B. Money to bring them in. How is this $ found if the fan support is not there for other games?

Honestly when the University weighs this it is a very fine line in decision making. The coaches would love the better competition. However, Griz fanbase has not proven to the University enough support for the "powers to be" that make the decisions. Lack of attendance in other games makes it more difficult to bring in better opponents. Financially, it may cost the U $ as things are now. Until attendance averages 6k plus the athletic department is finanically strapped. Yes they know for those games we would come. However, attendance in other games is weighed into the equation. At this point, the fan has not proven worthy to have bigger name opponents coming to town more often.

Our choice GRIZ nation. This program is between a rock and a hard place. (1) Chose to not attend games, we continue to get weak opponents. (2) Accept this being part of building this program, attend games, have faith the university will use the revenue to pay better opponents and promote the program. (3) Make the move up that benefits all sports, except football. Have patience in the growing pains we will have in football.

No matter how it is spun. My opinion is fan support beyond football is CRUCIAL for our basketball program to succeed again. WT and his family strike me as the type that wants to be in Missoula at least until his kids graduate. He is not looking at this as a stepping stone for at least 10 years. Have faith in him, his staff, players, and the program. It takes fans to build this. Being on board, good things will happen. Staying away, sorry to say, MT will be hard pressed to take things to a higher level. I am on board now with complete faith.

Final note: I have watched Duke/Va Tech, UCLA/Oregon, and Gonzaga/LMU today. Have to admit, student participation at Duke, Oregon, and Gonzaga make a huge difference in playing environment. Damn it, if need be give one side back to the Students!!!!!!!!! They are the ones that can and will be up the whole game with ENERGY. Much better than seeing empty seats. The majority of fans in those seats now, just sit on their hands and/or mute. However, :thumb: :clap: to the few vocal, standing ones that hear "sit down we want to see the game!" Screw the complainers, you have every bit as much right to cheer, yell, stomp, stand as they do to sitting and being quiet. It is college basketball, if you do not like it, go sit in the rafters or sky club. That is where you belong!! Give the lower levels to the students and rabid fans. That alone would help any team!!!!!
 
Spanky said:
No doubt City. Further, competing against them will make our team better, not to mention membership in their conference will draw athletes with more talent to play at UM. Finally, it will increase attendance wich translates to more revenue. What is the down side?
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What City or anyone else has failed to mention is that many of the years the Griz enjoyed great attendance the schedule was less than difficult. It is no secret that Montgomery, Morrill, and Taylor padded the schedule to all but guarantee 20 win seasons. Simon Fraser was on the schedule on a regular basis along with basketball powers Puget Sound, Stout State, Doane, Minnesota State, Central Washington (not just FB folks) , Great Falls, Linfield, to name a few.

One would think that these Ex Griz Coaches would "give back" and put the Griz on their schedule. Monty at Stanford was the only one who did, and he only did so twice, although one game was a pre season NIT so doesn't really count since Monty didn't schedule it. Morrill at Co State and Utah State never brought a team to Missoula, or sheduled the Griz for a home game. Taylor at Old Dominion, nothing. In my opinion there is no excuse for it.

Gonzaga and Washington complained about officiating and quit scheduling the Griz. UW was more related to losing to Montana than officiating at the time. Gonzaga has upgraded their schedule in recent years to a point they are on TV most of the time, that effectively eliminates Montana from consideration.

Ben Howland (former NAU Head Coach) HC at UCLA was quoted in the media after Montana beat Stanford that the Pac 10 schools should NOT schedule BSC teams.

After the Griz stunned Nevada in the NCAA, there are some teams that don't want to schedule a Mid Major that they might lose to.

The point is, cetainly the schedule has an effect on attendance, but there are many other factors that have had a negative impact on attendance at Griz BB games. The renovation of the Arena while playing at Sentinel HS. The subsequent mismanagement of Season Ticket priority and blatant disregard for longevity of ticket holders following the remodel of Dahlberg. The treatment of students. Poor teams. etc
 
Great points GB1. This so frustrating for me as a fan. Cannot imagine how magnified frustration is for the program. No matter what point is presented or no matter how often the GRIZ win, attendance still sucks for montana standards.

The past is the past as for all that created this negativity!!
I want the present and future to be bright again for a well deserved program. It does not get better until the fans support this program!!!!!! So no excuses, "JUST DO IT!!!"

Has to start sometime, why not in 06/07 conference schedule?
 
To add insult to injury on basketball moving forward. Guess what Gonzaga has worked with its fan base to do what they have done. Well this years recruiting class is ranked #11 nationally!!!!

Ridiculous and frustrating, they are only 200 miles from here. My God are they ever proving the naysayers wrong. :thumb: to Gonzaga and their fan base. (I beg you to not turn this into a Zags thread, but how the Zags did it and how their fans got on board early would be helpful for building my case here.)
 
mtgrizrule said:
Great points GB1. This so frustrating for me as a fan. Cannot imagine how magnified frustration is for the program. No matter what point is presented or no matter how often the GRIZ win, attendance still sucks for montana standards.

The past is the past as for all that created this negativity!!
I want the present and future to be bright again for a well deserved program. It does not get better until the fans support this program!!!!!! So no excuses, "JUST DO IT!!!"

Has to start sometime, why not in 06/07 conference schedule?
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The first thing that has to happen is win some games, create a little buzz. I don't care how creative the marketing is. Sure, you might get a few hundred to take advantage of discounted tickets on a one time basis. You are not going to attract fans that come back repeatedly unless the product is exciting to watch. Missoula is not made up of wealthy people. People have only so many discretionary dollars to spend. If they are going to a Griz game, they are skipping something else, a movie, dinner out, whatever. If they go to a Griz game and the game is exciting they may come back. If the Griz FB team had advanced to the Chipper, there wer many Griz fans that would have used their Christmas money, and then some to go.

There have been few times, if any, when both the FB team and the BB team was enjoying tremendous success on the field/court at the same time experiencing great attendance at both. In fact, it doesn't happen many places. The best attendance in Griz BB History was in 1974-75. The Griz FB team went 3-6-1 that season. After WaGriz was finished and the Griz started winning, attendance climbed, WaGriz was expaneded. At the same time there was a decline in attendance at Mens' BB games, even though there were some good basketball teams some of those years.
 
Regardless of opinions of others. Count this fan on board! I will not give up doing my share to help this program, players, and coaches build this program. Unless they do as Kennedy did, I am at every home game!!!! I hope one or a few at a time join me.

I will not stop supporting this staff and players unless given reason not to do so.
 
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