Selvig is a three in a five body! Also, great teams show consistency, good teams lack it. The Griz are good, not great. Because the BSC is tougher this years than in years past it means the Griz are in the middle of the pack in the BSC, not the frontrunners. Pretty simple. Just like at this point in his coaching career, Tinkle is a good not great coach. I wish it were different.
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GRIZ B ball flat out sucks!
- Thread starter Richard Cranium
- Start date
The Griz have become a boring team. They walk it up the floor,have a tough time getting into the offense,take forever to shoot,seldom press and when is the last time you saw a dunk during a fast break. Posters here say we have talent,I don't see it yet,we are slow and plodding and just not very exciting to watch. I hope things can change.
"Slow and plodding" is ok if the shots went down and the defense was better. A fast game rarely favors non urban teams...I kinda liked watching Princeton and Penn advance in tourney playing a slow down game....it is frustrating to the players who like to run and moves the advantage to the slower and more deliberate team that has good coaching and discipline. Sadly, I don't think that is what the Griz are trained to do, rather than the indecision and lack of fighting instincts they display....Still, the season is still here and they can turn things around in time for a possible NIT bid....I do not see them winning the conference or even playing for the title this year...too bad...IPQS said:
A fast fame rarely favors non urban teams? This is college basketball, not the terrible "non urban" high school basketball that takes place in the state of Montana. Have you ever watched Kentucky? Pretty sure that is not an urban team but they play pretty fast. Or how about North Carolina? Another non urban team that is as fast paced as they come. Shoot, NAU has no problem playing up tempo, and neither does Idaho State. Let's face it folks, we need a coaching change, plain and simple. Every year we are SO excited about the incoming recruiting class, and every year Tankle plays slow ball and we can't win when it matters
I guess my use of the word "urban" should have been more explicit...fast, playground, street pick up games....No slight intended and not sure how you managed to see one. I have not seen a Montana high school game since 1963...nor do I want to...Kentucky lost last night to another fast pace outfit and, it is debatable now if North Carolina, whose kids mostly come from urban areas, will make the tourney....not sure what your argument really is....no one expects UM to win the NCAA. If the style is slow and plodding, then it would be ok, if it was accompanied by disciplined shooting, passing, and defense. By the way, I do not see Cherry as being slow...grizzle said:
Now, when it comes to the Lady Griz, slow and plodding is how they were desribed by the Pitt coach last year and it sums up their style perfectly....good enough for the Big Sky, usually....yet, I hear no critics of Selvig..just praise....deserved, I suppose, from his record against the BSC.
My point is that Kentucky, UNC, NAU, etc... are non urban schools and yet still play at a very fast pace. Location does not have much to do with style of play in college as it does in high school...maybe I misunderstood what you meant. That being said, we need a new coach.
great thread. didn't know we had so many bb fans.
are our kids too nice? i wonder. krysko was our guy, but he was also a mean s.o.b., just ask anybody who played against him. as a coach he was in charge--not only of the huddle, but of the court. he commanded tremendous respect from refs, announcers, opposing coaches. when he was on the sidelines, montana had a presence, an aura, much as it does in football. you couldn't define it exactly, but it was there. when we played stanford down here a couple of years ago, greg papa, a former play-by-play guy for the spurs, and now one of the top tv commentators in the bay area, was out on the court, pre-game, talking to krysko, looking up in more ways than one. you could sense the commaraderie, the humor, the respect. krysko in charge.
i believe tinkle is getting there. he too has an aura, but different from krysko's, and maybe not as tough. tinkle is a better recruiter, probably relates better to parents and players. but as a coach, krysko could summon a meanness that may not be a part of tinkle's inherent nature. i see him as a guy who was probably always the b.m.o.c., married the love of his life, and has a beautiful family, while successful coachs from adolph rupp through john wooden to bob knight could be mean s.o.b.'s.
remember, it always starts at the top.
are our kids too nice? i wonder. krysko was our guy, but he was also a mean s.o.b., just ask anybody who played against him. as a coach he was in charge--not only of the huddle, but of the court. he commanded tremendous respect from refs, announcers, opposing coaches. when he was on the sidelines, montana had a presence, an aura, much as it does in football. you couldn't define it exactly, but it was there. when we played stanford down here a couple of years ago, greg papa, a former play-by-play guy for the spurs, and now one of the top tv commentators in the bay area, was out on the court, pre-game, talking to krysko, looking up in more ways than one. you could sense the commaraderie, the humor, the respect. krysko in charge.
i believe tinkle is getting there. he too has an aura, but different from krysko's, and maybe not as tough. tinkle is a better recruiter, probably relates better to parents and players. but as a coach, krysko could summon a meanness that may not be a part of tinkle's inherent nature. i see him as a guy who was probably always the b.m.o.c., married the love of his life, and has a beautiful family, while successful coachs from adolph rupp through john wooden to bob knight could be mean s.o.b.'s.
remember, it always starts at the top.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
citygriz said:
City, great post. Speaking of LK, I enjoyed watching him work the refs just as much the game itself. The jacket came off, then the tie was loosened bit by bit, then came off, then "look out refs". Also LK worked refs in good nature. I often sat right behind Larry at home games before moving to Colorado. He had many one liners, too bad I cannot remember many. His best one,early in the 2nd half in an early season game (cannot remember opponent), after 3 close calls going against the GRIZ, he holds up a clipboard, he thumbs through every sheet, finally puts one on top, next call as the official gets about a foot away, he holds up the clipboard with his ref evaluation sheet. See this, "Coaches comments, let me think about this. "NEEDS WORK!" " I could not stop laughing, even funnier was the official was laughing too, and holding back. Every call after that, went the GRIZ way. Larry commented a few more times "getting better". Larry even had the stare of intimidation down. I really think Larry knew how to work every conference official.
Tinkle is intimidating too, but still figuring out the working of officials. I would love to see Tinkle just let it all out now and then. A few well timed technicals just might give his players an added edge.
First off, the Griz don't suck this year. They're a talented but inconsistent team. Many people are frustrated by inconsistency and will allow that to embellish their reaction.
I admittedly haven't seen any Griz games this year - but I can comment on some generalizations of historical Tinkle teams....
1) Perimeter defense is often times left to be desired.
2) Teams lack killer instinct or sense of urgency.
3) Poor Free Throw shooting.
Generally - these aspects come from a lack of discipline.
I know for a fact that FT shooting is much improved. FT shooting is a direct reflection of how much discipline a coach instills in a team, imo. So I think Tinkle is making major strides in his HEAD coaching abilities. I suspect that perimeter defense still struggles at times, because it was reeeeaaaaally bad in the past. Tinkle teams also have a tendency to get into 3-point shooting contests - more times than not losing those battles.
I won't even try to comment on killer instinct or sense of urgency. You really only get a sense of that being in person.
However - Tinkle teams are good decision makers. LK teams often had turnover struggles. All of Tinkle's teams make smart decisions with the ball. They also seem generally unselfish. Tinkle teams tend to have good assist numbers.
I can't speak to this year's team, but honestly, I don't think LK teams ever had very good chemistry. So I'm not sure how important that really is. Execution and desire are what counts the most in my book.
Again, these are just generalizations from being around the program in the past. I haven't seen any games this year, but do talk shop every now and then.
And it could be much worse. Apparently some people don't remember the Kennedy experience. Those were truly bad teams. No chemistry, lack of discipline, shortcuts all over the place.
I admittedly haven't seen any Griz games this year - but I can comment on some generalizations of historical Tinkle teams....
1) Perimeter defense is often times left to be desired.
2) Teams lack killer instinct or sense of urgency.
3) Poor Free Throw shooting.
Generally - these aspects come from a lack of discipline.
I know for a fact that FT shooting is much improved. FT shooting is a direct reflection of how much discipline a coach instills in a team, imo. So I think Tinkle is making major strides in his HEAD coaching abilities. I suspect that perimeter defense still struggles at times, because it was reeeeaaaaally bad in the past. Tinkle teams also have a tendency to get into 3-point shooting contests - more times than not losing those battles.
I won't even try to comment on killer instinct or sense of urgency. You really only get a sense of that being in person.
However - Tinkle teams are good decision makers. LK teams often had turnover struggles. All of Tinkle's teams make smart decisions with the ball. They also seem generally unselfish. Tinkle teams tend to have good assist numbers.
I can't speak to this year's team, but honestly, I don't think LK teams ever had very good chemistry. So I'm not sure how important that really is. Execution and desire are what counts the most in my book.
Again, these are just generalizations from being around the program in the past. I haven't seen any games this year, but do talk shop every now and then.
And it could be much worse. Apparently some people don't remember the Kennedy experience. Those were truly bad teams. No chemistry, lack of discipline, shortcuts all over the place.
IronMountainGriz&Cat
Well-known member
It's kind of humorous how a lackluster loss to the cats creates an interest in Griz basketball. There was next to nothing going on here the week up to the game.
At LMU, Tinkle shocked the relatively empty gym that till then had also been quiet. The Griz were being out hustled, out scored, and simply outplayed by a team they had already beaten in Missoula..when Tinkle let loose the LMU fans all got louder but the team RAN onto the floor and proceeded to impress everyone, even the LA TImes...and that is something...they looked good...he lit a fire and Staudamacher seemed to excite the team as well...too bad they don't keep that level....LMU has gone on a small win streak since then and they too are playing better...Tinks put the fear of God into them, as well...it seems..citygriz said:
Montana Gym Rat said:
The Griz do suck this year. They start 3 seniors, one of which has started for 3 years, another who started in the pac-10 for one and is in his second year starting in Missoula, and a third who is the "best player" in the conference. Then we start a junior who has played solid minutes his whole career. We are too experienced and too "talented" to be inconsistent. This was supposed to be our year, remember? Johnson is the man, Stauds is lights out, Qvale has grown up, Mcgillis has matured, Cherry can ignite us, Ward is the next Andrew Strait, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Come on folks, quit making excuses and saying it is going to get better. Tinkle has had his chance. The offense is terrible. The defense is ragged. We have no passion. We have no enthusiasm. It's time for a change.
It looks like a number of you focused on some of the same areas for improvement as Tinkle did:
"Tinkle said he and his staff found four areas in which the Griz need to improve: on-ball defense, help defense, pounding the ball into the post and attaching in transition." He also AJ needs to be play better.
From this morning's Missoulian.
"Tinkle said he and his staff found four areas in which the Griz need to improve: on-ball defense, help defense, pounding the ball into the post and attaching in transition." He also AJ needs to be play better.
From this morning's Missoulian.
PlayerRep said:
I only see two areas that need improvement: offense and defense. :mrgreen:
racehorsewilly
Well-known member
The Griz do suck this year. They start 3 seniors, one of which has started for 3 years, another who started in the pac-10 for one and is in his second year starting in Missoula, and a third who is the "best player" in the conference. Then we start a junior who has played solid minutes his whole career. We are too experienced and too "talented" to be inconsistent. This was supposed to be our year, remember? Johnson is the man, Stauds is lights out, Qvale has grown up, Mcgillis has matured, Cherry can ignite us, Ward is the next Andrew Strait, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Come on folks, quit making excuses and saying it is going to get better. Tinkle has had his chance. The offense is terrible. The defense is ragged. We have no passion. We have no enthusiasm. It's time for a change.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to say, but I agree.Tinkle is a wonderful human being, but he's not capable of coaching at the present level... Way too much talent for the record we have. The players deserve better. He's a word merchant , but not cannot coach to back up his recruited talent...Yes, I'll still support the Griz,but seeds need to be sown for a change...
Sorry to say, but I agree.Tinkle is a wonderful human being, but he's not capable of coaching at the present level... Way too much talent for the record we have. The players deserve better. He's a word merchant , but not cannot coach to back up his recruited talent...Yes, I'll still support the Griz,but seeds need to be sown for a change...
racehorsewilly said:
always fun to be out on the extremes--black or white, good or evil--where you can ratchet up the volume and draw attention to yourself my making shrill proclamations. hyperbole always sells. problem is, extremes also hide the truth, and the truth about this team is somewhere in the middle. nobody who saw the games against oregon, washington or loyola marymount would ever say that it's a time for a change in this program, especially with so much time left in this season, and so many quality recruits on board. at the same time, it's keenly disappointing to me that in a key mid-season conference game against a traditional rival, we could play so poorly.
and that there's the truth.
Interesting about GrizNation: A winning coach like BH gets hammered, and a "losing" coach like Tinks, also gets hammered (sorry, Hammer). In BH's case, the Griz are above the conference, so his wins don't count. IOW, it's not the coaching, it's the weakness of the competition. In Tink's case, it's not the strength of the competition, it's the weakness of the coaching. There's no way a UM coach can win with GrizNation, unless it's Robin Selvig.
Someone mentioned why all this interest because of the Griz/Cat game. This person doesn't understand that how the Griz perform against a Cat team is a barometer of the success of the Griz program, and I will say that I think that basketball is a sport where the odds are pretty even between the Griz and the Cats. It's always been that way, & always will. I do not believe UM will win in Greeley. That's strength of conference. As to NAU, I don't know. If the Griz can scrap out a win, again, that's strength of conference.
And, I repeat: Any offense where the shots do not fall, the team is going to lose the game. If the Griz cannot score more than 60 points, game over. Simple as that.
Someone mentioned why all this interest because of the Griz/Cat game. This person doesn't understand that how the Griz perform against a Cat team is a barometer of the success of the Griz program, and I will say that I think that basketball is a sport where the odds are pretty even between the Griz and the Cats. It's always been that way, & always will. I do not believe UM will win in Greeley. That's strength of conference. As to NAU, I don't know. If the Griz can scrap out a win, again, that's strength of conference.
And, I repeat: Any offense where the shots do not fall, the team is going to lose the game. If the Griz cannot score more than 60 points, game over. Simple as that.
David2 said:
Sage observation, David2.
David2 said:
This is what I feel makes the Cat-Griz rivalry fun compared to other schools in the conference - the time and history behind it. I wish that NAU had a rival but due to the set-up of the conference (great distance between schools) it's not to be. One of the reasons I always felt athletics received ho-hum support from the Flagstaff community and the students.
But I also thought that just about the only time people I talked to in Montana gave a second of thought to college basketball was when the Griz played the Bobcats twice a year. A successful program and season has to consist of more than two games.
The closest to any consistency seen in the Big Sky Conference this year, in my opinion, is Weber State. They always seem to put up about a .500 record in non-conference but turn it on during conference play. Same goes this year. The rest of the conference is capable of winning just about any given game but that tricky consistency thing catches up with them.
Shall be interesting to see which NAU team as well as which UM team shows up on Saturday night.
crackgina said:I think the MT team you, and the rest of the league, didn't want to show up actually DID show up.
It was a close game last Saturday night til the last 11-12 minutes of the game and then the Grizzlies put it to NAU.
Weber State and Northern Colorado will have some competition at the end of the year from UM.
I don't wish ill upon any players but as a Lumberjacks fan I' won't shed any tears when I don't have to watch Anthony Johnson go off for 20+ points anymore. The speed and in-paint penetration of UM's guards just killed NAU on Saturday.
Griz fans shouldn't give up on their team yet.
MTJack
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