GRIZ at NAU

[Growler1]

5 couples attended the NAU game last night, as we do every year. The result was dictated from the opening tip by the mugging defense employed by Adras. I have never seen a more physical college game. The officials were letting them play, and NAU basically out-physicaled the Griz early in the game. I remember looking at the clock in first half, and with 7:00 minutes left until half-time, the officials were calling just the second PF on NAU! The Griz got the worst end of the physical play, without a doubt.

This has been an on-going criticism of mine regarding Tinkle. His teams do not play physical man-to-man defense. NAU was manning-up, slapping, body-checking, and actually moving players around with their bodies. The refs were allowing this. But, Montana was not dishing it out on defense at the other end. Teams must adjust quickly to a more physical game if it is clear the refs are calling it soft. We never did. You can not zone a great outside shooting team like NAU.

One thing I love about Adras which makes him the best coach in the Sky in my opinion, is that his teams always play great m2m defense. Montana was much bigger than NAU, but player much smaller. NAU rarely has the best players in the league, but they are always a factor because of Adras.

 

[Grizbacker1]

As I am watching the replay, I am noticing some things I did not before.

(1) Kareem Jamar does have the skill set to be a SG.

(2) The GRIZ need to protect the ball better, and be more aware of opponents stabbing/reaching for the ball. Autry is a better ballhandler than Stockton. Stockton dribbles very high. I am surprised he is not picked more often.

(3) We need to refocus on boxing out.

1. Jamaar is a true freshman, give him some time and he will be a tremendous player. Who else are you goiong to put there right now??????

2. Stockton makes better decisions MOST of the time.... and early on Autry has NOT shown the mental toughness. He is getting better. As Al McGuire used to say: "The best thing about a Freshman is they become Sophomores."

3. When the Griz are in that matchup zone the boxing out part is a lot tougher. That is true of Zone Defenses, not sure why most people don't get that. We don't play much man D.

Regarding 1 and 2, at this stage in this season, Jamar, Steward, Autry, and Stockton need to be guard/SF rotation with Cherry out. The Wood and Adams experiment(s) has not worked one bit. Despite being Freshman Jamar and Autry, without a doubt are better players, and have proven much more. I respect Tinkle for loyality to Wood, but it is time to realize, having Wood or Adams getting playing time over Autry is causing this team right now. I do not have a problem with Stockton's playing time whatsoever. I wish I had rest the games recorded from this season. The majority of GRIZ guards handle the ball just about waist high, and do not shield the ball well. At least that is what I seen in the NAU game. Both Autry and Jamar at least protect the ball well.

Autry has not been out there enough to rates his decisions, but the results have been much better with him on the court than either Wood and Adams. Jamar for the most part makes great decisions, and makes more things happen, than anyone but Cherry, Selvig, and Qvale. Jamar's game is that of an experienced sophomore or Junior player. In my opinion, at this stage of the season, this should not even be a topic of discussion. Autry is obviously better, even as a freshman. I can only go by what I have seen during gametime. Based on that, I honestly do not see why Autry is not out there more?

As for rebounding, maybe there needs to be some things broken down on film when we play zone defense. For the most part of the year, we were rebounding well in zone. The last few weeks we have not been doing so. Our bigs are getting outhustled for lose balls, and our perimeter players are getting beat by crashing perimeter players. Something is not right, and this weekend's games it was a lot more obvious.

I hope it was all a bad weekend, but it has caused some concerns. #3 can be overcome. #1 and #2 is dependent upon the willingness of a coach to decide which player is better, regardless of class. It sounds to me, the majority of posters see Autry being the better player too. When upperclassmen are not getting the job done, it is time to build the Freshman. Even more so when that Freshman has given no reason to see himself on the bench. It is past time to go with him. :thumb:

Sure is easy to coach after the game isn't it?

 

[Grizbacker1]

And the line-up needs to be Autry, Jamar, Steward, Selvig, and Q.

Tinks is slipping into some VERY bad old habits by not going with that lineup.

I agree with this line-up... Autry/Jamar can't be considered true freshman at this point in the season, and we need to stop treating them like they are....Autry especially. Stockton will be a nice player coming off the bench to spell Autry or Jamar bumping Autry over to the 2. I have completely given up on Jordan Wood.

The only person Autry has to blame for lack of minutes has been Autry. If you think because he made 3 treys after a game was pretty well decided means he is big time and the Coach has just missed it, they you are either related to him, or you are clueless. You earn minutes, you are not given them. He has played better of late, and is now getting more PT. Early in the season he stunk it up.

 

[WSUnPurple]

Should have Redshirted him then.

They have the same issue going on with James Walker at Utah State. Highly recruited Freshman not playing should be Redshirting instead of wasting a year.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Should have Redshirted him then.

They have the same issue going on with James Walker at Utah State. Highly recruited Freshman not playing should be Redshirting instead of wasting a year.

Redshirt is not the coaches choice, it is the players.

 

[mtgrizrule]

GB, you and I both know, there is a lot more to this decision than the games. I am giving my opinion entirely on the few games I have seen in person/online, and the fact that Wood nor Adams have stepped up. I agree, Autry looked very shaky early in the year. The key word being "early". He is a much better player now, than then. Yes, he missed 2 3's against NAU, but he did make the right decisions.

In this case, not only do I see Autry as the best player of the 3, but also with much more upside, which will benefit the team now and 3 more years. Unless, there is more going on than what we as fans see, I do not see a controversy on who should be playing. Autry has been the better player the past month.

If there is more to it than what we are privy to, then maybe it is time for someone to shed some light on this.

FWIW,I have always supported and will continue to support Tinkle. He is a great coach for us, and even a greater person. I just cannot see what is keeping Autry on the bench? I think quite a few fans are wondering the same thing.

 

[Umista]

One thing I have noticed after the dismal 2 game performance is this. Some fantasy fans have quit speculating about Tinks leaving for a higher paying job!

By the way, how would we like to be MSU basketball fans? That LOSING streak is beyond bad.

Take a deep breath, Tinks is still a good coach, lots of B ball left...

 

[mtgrizrule]

I just broke down the UCLA game regarding our GRIZ ballhandling. What I noticed during the NAU game is apparent in that game too. Stockton and Wood handle the ball high and often unprotected. See my other post at the no will cherry thread.

 

[Grizbacker1]

GB, you and I both know, there is a lot more to this decision than the games. I am giving my opinion entirely on the few games I have seen in person/online, and the fact that Wood nor Adams have stepped up. I agree, Autry looked very shaky early in the year. The key word being "early". He is a much better player now, than then. Yes, he missed 2 3's against NAU, but he did make the right decisions.

In this case, not only do I see Autry as the best player of the 3, but also with much more upside, which will benefit the team now and 3 more years. Unless, there is more going on than what we as fans see, I do not see a controversy on who should be playing. Autry has been the better player the past month.

If there is more to it than what we are privy to, then maybe it is time for someone to shed some light on this.

FWIW,I have always supported and will continue to support Tinkle. He is a great coach for us, and even a greater person. I just cannot see what is keeping Autry on the bench? I think quite a few fans are wondering the same thing.

mtgrizrule,

First of all, you know better than most that not everything that happens within a program is for public knowledge. That is not a bad thing. I remember when Monty and coaches after him were at UM, one of the things they said often was "what we do here, what we say here, stays here, when we leave here." The reason for that is very simple. Unless someone is there everyday, there is no way they wouldn't take many of the things they might hear out of context. Egriz is full of shit like that, and it doesn't do anyone a bit of good. You know I want the Griz to be successful, but unlike some on here (not you) I prefer to let coaches coach.

 

[scottsgriz]

Should have Redshirted him then.

They have the same issue going on with James Walker at Utah State. Highly recruited Freshman not playing should be Redshirting instead of wasting a year.

Redshirt is not the coaches choice, it is the players.

Are you saying that is Tinkle/UM policy? In most programs, regardless of the sport, the coach decides. Its always wise to seriously consider the players wishes, but it isn't there call.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Should have Redshirted him then.

They have the same issue going on with James Walker at Utah State. Highly recruited Freshman not playing should be Redshirting instead of wasting a year.

Redshirt is not the coaches choice, it is the players.

Are you saying that is Tinkle/UM policy? In most programs, regardless of the sport, the coach decides. Its always wise to seriously consider the players wishes, but it isn't there call.

No question the coach has a lot of input, but they cannot force a student athlete to redshirt if they do not want to.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Are you saying that is Tinkle/UM policy? In most programs, regardless of the sport, the coach decides. Its always wise to seriously consider the players wishes, but it isn't there call.

No question the coach has a lot of input, but they cannot force a student athlete to redshirt if they do not want to.

Can a coach say, "Redshirt, or find another school."? (Answer: Yes.) If so, would that not be equal to forcing a redshirt?

 

[scottsgriz]

Should have Redshirted him then.

They have the same issue going on with James Walker at Utah State. Highly recruited Freshman not playing should be Redshirting instead of wasting a year.

Redshirt is not the coaches choice, it is the players.

Are you saying that is Tinkle/UM policy? In most programs, regardless of the sport, the coach decides. Its always wise to seriously consider the players wishes, but it isn't there call.

No question the coach has a lot of input, but they cannot force a student athlete to redshirt if they do not want to.

All the coach has to do is not play the player in question (they don't even need to allow the player to dress out for the games).

Sure, the player could leave the school after 4 years, but that individual would still have a year of elgibility according to the NCAA.

It is wise to take the players wishes into account to avoid problems, but it is the coaches call.

 

[Grizbacker1]

NO, it is NOT the coahes call. Any coach who would do what you mention above is an idiot, and probably not a winning coach. There are many reasons a kid may not want to redshirt. Granted, it doesn't happen very often because a redshirt is generally discussed prior to the athlete coming to a school. But to say the coach can force it upon a student is a joke

 

[br fan]

GB, you and I both know, there is a lot more to this decision than the games. I am giving my opinion entirely on the few games I have seen in person/online, and the fact that Wood nor Adams have stepped up. I agree, Autry looked very shaky early in the year. The key word being "early". He is a much better player now, than then. Yes, he missed 2 3's against NAU, but he did make the right decisions.

In this case, not only do I see Autry as the best player of the 3, but also with much more upside, which will benefit the team now and 3 more years. Unless, there is more going on than what we as fans see, I do not see a controversy on who should be playing. Autry has been the better player the past month.

If there is more to it than what we are privy to, then maybe it is time for someone to shed some light on this.

FWIW,I have always supported and will continue to support Tinkle. He is a great coach for us, and even a greater person. I just cannot see what is keeping Autry on the bench? I think quite a few fans are wondering the same thing.

I think Autry not getting the minutes was due solely to the fact that we were playing at NAU. If you look at past years, I think you'll seeTinkle has expanded the rotation every year when the Griz play in Flagstaff. I think Tinkle was simply doing the same last Saturday by giving Adams and Wood more minutes, with the intent the team would still be playing strong at the end playing at 7000 feet.

 

[Mousegriz]

Adams' minutes and the 6 point deficit that suddenly became 16 points seemed to coincide pretty closely. Couple TO's and burned on defense a couple more times.......not sure why he got the minutes when he did.

Will is our MVP and it showed last weekend.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

The only person Autry has to blame for lack of minutes has been Autry. If you think because he made 3 treys after a game was pretty well decided means he is big time and the Coach has just missed it, they you are either related to him, or you are clueless. You earn minutes, you are not given them. He has played better of late, and is now getting more PT. Early in the season he stunk it up.

GB1, I agree with you on Autry needing to earn his minutes. However, what have Wood and Adams done to "earn" their minutes? Maybe they are showing something in practice that haven't been shown in the games yet? Granted, Adams hasn't really played all that much, but Wood has only shown brief glimpses here and there, so how is that different than what Autry has shown?

 

[scottsgriz]

NO, it is NOT the coahes call. Any coach who would do what you mention above is an idiot, and probably not a winning coach. There are many reasons a kid may not want to redshirt. Granted, it doesn't happen very often because a redshirt is generally discussed prior to the athlete coming to a school. But to say the coach can force it upon a student is a joke

Right...The players also decide when and how much playing time they get.

I don't even really care much if Autry or anyone else redshirted or not. It is a tough call either way. I have pointed out it is a good idea to consult the player multiple times, but it is ridiculous to say it isn't the coaches call as you initially did.

The first time a player doesn't appear in a game for a season, it doesn't burn a year of competitive eligibility. The player can climb the M and decree, "I refuse to redshirt!" The player can leave after 4 years, but he would still have a year of eligibility remaining in the eyes of the NCAA.

I am curious about this situation now though. Are you purely speaking hypothetically, or are you saying Tinkle wanted Autry to redshirt and chose to grant him his wish after Autry was adamantly against it?

 

[BigSkyBears]

I just broke down the UCLA game regarding our GRIZ ballhandling. What I noticed during the NAU game is apparent in that game too. Stockton and Wood handle the ball high and often unprotected. See my other post at the no will cherry thread.

How in the world do you have time to break down film?

 

[mtgrizrule]

I just broke down the UCLA game regarding our GRIZ ballhandling. What I noticed during the NAU game is apparent in that game too. Stockton and Wood handle the ball high and often unprotected. See my other post at the no will cherry thread.

How in the world do you have time to break down film?

I guess film is the wrong word these days, broke down video. Sunday dragging by for the superbowl, combined with what I seen from the NAU game, and fans wondering about why Autry is not seeing minutes, I figured why not?

It does not take much time when only focusing on offensive possessions and ball handling. It took about an hour for the whole game. Detailed video can take 4 hours. To be honest, it is the 1st video I have broken down in over 10 years. I enjoyed it again.

I do not have enough video to know if the things I observed are consistent or not. However, it was glaring on a 52" HD tv against NAU, and just as glaring against UCLA. Considering the time between the games, I would not be surprised if high, and unprotected ballhandling has been a minor flaw all season.

Video or not, watch the difference in how Will Cherry handles the ball, verses the other Guard/Forwards. I hope you do not notice it in upcoming games. That means maybe the coaches noticed it too. It is very hard to notice on a bigskytv.org feed though. Quick handed guards like Will Cherry, and most BSC guards could really pick our pockets a lot, if they focused on it. Will Cherry is always knee high or lower and the majority of the time shields the ball, just as coached. Other than Vaughn Autry, in limited action, I noticed our other PG and SG open themselves up for picks. Got admit though, our Forwards, Steward and Jamar did better than expected with this.

Cherry, Steward, and Jamar, have been very well coached, and it is 2nd nature for them. I do wonder if this is something the others have not been paying attention to, or never instilled in them before? I mentioned this to an old coaching friend of mine. He pointed out to me, most college coaches do not have the time to get that critical minor flaws like this. That detailed breakdown is more at the HS level. Before he retired from JC coaching a fan asked him about this same thing. He thought the fan was crazy, but assured him he would look at video to see if he too noticed it, and to what extent. 2 days later, he had every player in basic ballhandling drills for the next 2 weeks every day.

To be honest, it is not costing the GRIZ games, but if improved on it could help the other guards in taking the ball to hole and creating for teammates. Cherry is excellent at this. Seriously, next few games see what you notice, then when Cherry returns compare to him. You should see what I am referring to.