Greatest Griz Basketball player...

[ordigger]

Sort of like arguing who was the greatest baseball player ever. Willie Mays had possibly the greatest talent, but was he the greatest player? Ted Williams was possibly the greatest hitter, but he loss a lot of years due to two wars. What would he have done with those 4-5 years. Some say Babe Ruth because of his homeruns, but he may not even had been the best player on his team, as Lou Gehrig had some great seasons. There are some that even believe Ty Cobb is the greatest of all time, or maybe Josh Gibson who never got his MLB shot.

Personally I pick Ted Williams as the greatest player ever, only because he was a fishing buddy of my Dad's though in MA for a couple of summers in the late 40s, so I heard those stories growing up. And my Dad would tell you he was a better fisherman than hitter, but of course he was a Boston Braves fan, not a Red Sox fan so much. lol

 

[Gaeilge1]

I've always marvelled at questions like this because in one respect it's like comparing apples to oranges because they played such different positions. MRR was clearly the best guard to ever play for the Griz and LK was the best power forward. Thus I'm not sure its a valid comparison to pit them against one another as who was the best player for the Griz.

If forced to pick though, and I saw alot of both of them, Micheal Ray was by far the better overall basketball talent. His first step was the quickest I've ever seen at any level. Micheal Ray, (for those of you wondering, this is the correct spelling), had the skills to play for any college team in the country as a starter. While I think LK was a great player I'm not sure I could say the same thing about him.

 

[Growler1]

MRR was, without-a-doubt, the best BB player ever at UM. He was the 4th player picked by the NBA New York Knicks. He became an NBA All-Star, and led the league in steals three consecutive seasons. Cocaine brought him down. If not for his drug problems, he would possibly be in the NBA Hall-of-Fame. End of story....it's not even CLOSE!

 

[weberwildcat]

What I said is he is NOT the greatest Griz player of all time. He simply cant be because he doesnt have the awards and accolades to prove it. Larry was voted league MVP 3 times by the Big Sky. It is they who give him recognition as being the greatest Griz of all time, not me. Michael Ray does not have 3 MVPs last I checked, nor does any other Big Sky player.

The first year of the Big Sky MVP was 1978-79... Richardsons first year as a pro....

http://www.bigskyconf.com/sports/2010/11/12/MBB_1112102524.aspx?id=590" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So you are wrong on Gus and you are wrong on MVP's

Not really....he doesnt have any now does he? Again you are judging him on his PRO career. Larry was the greatest Griz player, as proved by votes from the league. Thats a fact. And Gus Johnson did play for Idaho, so not that wrong...and he was a better player than Richardson also.

Its your opinion, and one that the league did not share nor do I. Richardson had more raw talent, but he was not the better player in college ball thus he cannot be the greatest Grizzly player IMO.

And if there was one Richardson easily wins it for 77-78, but he would not have won it for 76-77. That year the Grizzlies only went 8-18 (this might have been the ineligible player year - Lee Johnson?). Idaho State advanced to the final 8 on the shoulders of Steve Hayes, who would've won it hands down. 75-76 is a toss up, but the Bengals had the better year again, so I would think Hayes would've had a shot also that year. 74-75 Montana had a great year, but I think Eric Hays or Ken McKenzie would've been considered the leaders of the Griz. So at best Michael wins two, but I believe one is more likely.

Here is the link to the Silver Anniversary Team..
http://www.bigskyconf.com/sports/2008/7/31/25ANNIVERSARYMBB.aspx?path=mbball

My list...
1. Larry K
2. Steven Hayes
3. Michael Ray Richardson
4. Willie Humes
5. Ron Boone

In fact, if you're looking at the best pure scorer....its probably Humes. And best pro is Boone simply because he played a full career, and had some very good seasons scoring over 17,000 pts in the NBA.

a top 5 big sky list is not complete without weber's willie sojourner (1968-1971). he is top 3 for sure if not 1 or 2. its a shame back in the day ncaa didn't let players play fresh yr. he would have had 3 mvp awards i am sure if there was such thing back tehn. those all started when the big sky tourney started in 1976.

wsu records:


Career Points
1. Bruce Collins 2,019 (4 yrs)
2. Jimmy DeGraffenried 1,624 (4 yrs)
3. Jermaine Boyette 1,613 (3 yrs)
4. Willie Sojourner 1,563 (3 yrs)

Rebounds Career
1. Willie Sojourner 1143 1971 (#2 Big Sky history)
2. Jimmy Watts 949 1976
3. Bruce Collins 879 1980
4. Richard Smith 762 1980
5. Al DeWitt 722 1976

Career Rebounding Average
1. Willie Sojourner 14.1 68-71 (#1 Big Sky history)
2. Gene Visscher 12.8 64-66
3. Dan Sparks 12.6 66-68
4. Rico Washington 10.6 87-89
5. Kirk Smith 9.6 93-95

Single Season Rebounds
1. Willie Sojourner 411 1970 (#2 Big Sky history)
2. Willie Sojourner 392 1969
3. Dan Sparks 370 1968
4. Gene Visscher 358 1965
5. Lance Allred 348 2005

Single Season Rebounding Average
1. Willie Sojourner 15.8 1969-70
2. Gene Visscher 14.3 1965-66
3. Dan Sparks 13.7 1967-68
4. Willie Sojourner 13.6 1970-71
5. Willie Sojourner 13.1 1968-69

Single Game Points
1. Stan Mayhew 45 1977 (against USU)
2. Harold Arceneax 40 2000
3. Willie Sojourner 39 1971
4. Bruce Collins 39 1980

Single Game Rebounds
1. Willie Sojourner 25 1971
2. Bruce Collins 24 1976
3. Willie Sojourner 24 1970
4. Willie Sojourner 24 1969
5. Willie Sojourner 24 1968

3 Time Big Sky Conference 1st Team
Jermaine Boyette '01, '02, '03
Bruce Collins '78, '79, '80
Jimmy Watts '74, '75, '76
Willie Sojourner '68, '69, '70

4 Time Big Sky Conference 1st Team
a total of 0 between the entire conf. one wsu player that will be a junior this year
has the chance to be the big sky's only ever 4 timer.

willie was drafted to nba in 1971.

wsu with sojourner
-3 big sky titles (2 of those titles 2 place was 4 GAMES BACK!)
-3 ncaa tourney appearances, 3 ncaa touney wins.
-twice weber FINISHED the season ranked
-most wins by a wsu team, 27-3 in 1969. i think the big sky record is 28 wins (griz).
-part of only big sky undefeated team, 1969, that record stood til 2003 when wsu did it again.
-wsu only lost 5 big sky games in his 3 yrs
-first ever wsu instate basketball game was willie's senior year, it was in logan. weber won 63-62.
- willie's worst season was when wsu lost just 7 games overall in 1970.
-wsu had 3 home losses in his 3 yrs. 0 home losses in 2 of those yrs.
-big sky's Longest Winning streak: 18 straight games and 24 straight conference games
-big sky's Longest Road winning streak for road wins and conference road wins: 13 conference games, 1968-70 and 8 total road wins 1969

I dont know Richardson's stats from big sky but hard to argue against #4 in the nba draft.

 

[LittletonGriz]

MRR had the greatest talent of any Big Sky player ever. The problem was that he did not have a brain in his head. LK on the other hand had a lot of talent but had a great brain and heart. More then any other player. If MRR had LKs brain and heart he could have been as good as anyone who ever played the game. LK was known as the up and coming power forward in the NBA and then the injury hit. That year he was on the all opponent team that the Nuggets published. He killed the Nuggets.

 

[Growler1]

MRR had the greatest talent of any Big Sky player ever. The problem was that he did not have a brain in his head. LK on the other hand had a lot of talent but had a great brain and heart. More then any other player. If MRR had LKs brain and heart he could have been as good as anyone who ever played the game. LK was known as the up and coming power forward in the NBA and then the injury hit. That year he was on the all opponent team that the Nuggets published. He killed the Nuggets.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Please!

 

[Growler1]

I saw Willie play two times in Missoula. Yes, he was a man among boys. But he never was the NBA player that Richardson was.

 

[Umista]

Two cents worth of beer. Michael Ray was a man among boys on the BB floor. Perhaps will always be the best and greatest player to suit up for the Griz. Yes, I watched him play every home game. Other greats played before and after but none were as clever, fast or talented. In fact I have never watched a player on the Griz home court that had the talent that Michael Ray had, no mater the team!

Later, as a pro (and after) money, drugs and bad judgement made him less of a man.

 

[bigforkgriz]

Michael Ray Richardson was unquestionably the best ever. He was a complete player. He was a great offensive player and an even better defensive player.

In the game against UCLA his freshmen year he did score only two points and Eric Hayes was unconscious. However, Michael’s defense had a lot to do with Montana’s performance. It gets overlooked because of Hayes. His freshmen year Michael was just that a defensive player, but an exceptional one. His offense was marginal and his outside shot was highly questionable. He went and played in a summer league in Denver with Nugget players most notably David Thompson. He came back a scorer with a complete game and a cocky confidence he hadn’t displayed. He was transformed.

In his 40 point game against the Bobcats he didn’t start. He had a badly sprained ankle. When he came in to the game the first four or five times up and down the court he was hobbling. I believe it was a high ankle sprain and it was legit. He was very questionable. You could see it in the warm-up. It was implied earlier that he didn’t have heart. That is bullsh&t. His ankle began to loosen up and he took off. The crowd was “the zoo” like it always was back then and he fed off it. In one instance he took the ball and faked a pass by putting it over the defenders head with both hands. I mean completely on the other side of his head. He brought the ball back and went around the guy and scored as the Bobcat was looking to see where he had passed it. The crowd went absolutely crazy. I had never seen that done before and my buddies and I were punching and slapping each other.

Larry K was never at the same level as Michael offensively or defensively at Montana or the NBA.

 

[Swillbury]

No love for Victor Venters?

 

[Growler1]

Michael Ray Richardson was unquestionably the best ever. He was a complete player. He was a great offensive player and an even better defensive player.

In the game against UCLA his freshmen year he did score only two points and Eric Hayes was unconscious. However, Michael’s defense had a lot to do with Montana’s performance. It gets overlooked because of Hayes. His freshmen year Michael was just that a defensive player, but an exceptional one. His offense was marginal and his outside shot was highly questionable. He went and played in a summer league in Denver with Nugget players most notably David Thompson. He came back a scorer with a complete game and a cocky confidence he hadn’t displayed. He was transformed.

In his 40 point game against the Bobcats he didn’t start. He had a badly sprained ankle. When he came in to the game the first four or five times up and down the court he was hobbling. I believe it was a high ankle sprain and it was legit. He was very questionable. You could see it in the warm-up. It was implied earlier that he didn’t have heart. That is bullsh&t. His ankle began to loosen up and he took off. The crowd was “the zoo” like it always was back then and he fed off it. In one instance he took the ball and faked a pass by putting it over the defenders head with both hands. I mean completely on the other side of his head. He brought the ball back and went around the guy and scored as the Bobcat was looking to see where he had passed it. The crowd went absolutely crazy. I had never seen that done before and my buddies and I were punching and slapping each other.

Larry K was never at the same level as Michael offensively or defensively at Montana or the NBA.

Anyone who states that MMR did not have heart, knows nothing about basketball. He had more heart than most players who come through this program. We will never see the likes again of a talent like MRR at UM.

 

[LittletonGriz]

I remember talking to the former BSU center about MRR. The conversation took place in 1983. It was before MRRs final NBA troubles. He said that the last year or two MRR was at Montana he had his own house and would invite the BSU team over after the game to party. He said there were more girls and drugs then he had ever seen before. He said MRR has issues but knew how to party. The drug issues began before the NBA years. Like I said before if he would have had LKs heart, brains and determination, he would have been one of the greatest ever. He was the greatest talent at Montana. Both MRR and LK had rough times growing up. One channeled his energy to be better one became self destructive.

 

[Paytonlives]

I remember talking to the former BSU center about MRR. The conversation took place in 1983. It was before MRRs final NBA troubles. He said that the last year or two MRR was at Montana he had his own house and would invite the BSU team over after the game to party. He said there were more girls and drugs then he had ever seen before. He said MRR has issues but knew how to party. The drug issues began before the NBA years. Like I said before if he would have had LKs heart, brains and determination, he would have been one of the greatest ever. He was the greatest talent at Montana. Both MRR and LK had rough times growing up. One channeled his energy to be better one became self destructive.

MRR has totally turned his life around... Its good to see and gives all people with addictions the one thing that they truly need.......... HOPE