grizzlyjournal
Well-known member
:thumb: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Buttegrizzle said:
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Gameday!
- Thread starter EverettGriz
- Start date
Buttegrizzle said:
:clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb:
Great post, grizzle. I agree; if you can't have fun watching this team play, you can't have fun.
grizzlyjournal said:
Okay, confession time:
When it was confirmed that Donovan was out for the year, I admit I thought to myself, "Crap. That means Bobby will have to play more minutes". Man, I could not have BEEN more wrong. Dude is an all-everything stud. I cannot imagine this team without him.
Now, I'm not Catholic, but if someone can tell me how many Hail Mary's I owe, I'd sure appreciate it.
Whew. Feels good to get that off my chest.
cmtgrizzly
Well-known member
The inconsistencies of very talented but young team from the previous two years seem to have evaporated. Pretty great!
I think one other thing you are seeing is the result of Travis demanding a challenging non-conference schedule the past few years where we play elite teams.
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
PlayerRep said:
Solid
grizatwork said:
I was pondering what it was that accounts for the Grizzlies' great success this year. Perhaps it is the challenging non-conference schedule the past few years, although that didn't necessarily lead to great success the last couple years.
It seems to me that the one big difference between UM and most other teams it plays is the defensive schemes it uses and the defensive intensity the players employ. It must be a nightmare for other teams to try to set up their offenses against the Griz, much less score.
And the turnovers the Griz create leads to a lot of easy buckets.
To get to this point, DeCuire had to get his players to buy into his vision of a heavy focus on defense -- something I'm not sure a lot of young guys these days would be enthusiastic about in an age when the internet seems to celebrate offensive highlights. Moreover, it takes an incredible effort to get in terrific shape to run the sort of intense -- sometimes all-court, smothering defense -- the Grizzlies throw at their opponents.
Another point: I'm not sure it would have worked without the emergence of the two true freshmen, Falls and Nicholas, because of the enormous amounts of energy it takes to run the sort of defense the Griz use. They just would have run out of gas trying it with six players.
Finally, not only are the Griz getting easier transition baskets due to their defense, but they seem more patient on offense. Last night they got a lot of easy ones, including 30 points in the paint. The Northern Colorado coach said this in the local paper:
"They came out in the second half … and that's on me, and that's why they're 10-0 in the conference," Linder added. "They're experienced and they have the ability to get easy baskets. That's what they do differently than anybody in the conference...."You can't let a team come in here and shoot 70 percent on your floor (in the second half). They're a hard team to play when you're playing from behind."
https://www.greeleytribune.com/sports/university-of-northern-colorado-mens-basketball-team-runs-out-of-gas-in-key-conference-game/
Anyway, my 2 cents worth...
grizzlyjournal
Well-known member
Note grizonbob: I posted this on another thread, but realize it fits better here! A bit of duplication, but perspectives fit.
Here's a good story, with good quotes, from the Greeley, Colorado Tribune on Montana's win over the Northern Colorado Bears last night. I think this quote, by Bears coach Jeff Linder, says it all:
"You can't let a team come in here and shoot 70 percent on your floor (in the second half)," Linder said. "They're a hard team to play when you're playing from behind.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/quartzglen/status/959484214193172485[/tweet]
Here's a good story, with good quotes, from the Greeley, Colorado Tribune on Montana's win over the Northern Colorado Bears last night. I think this quote, by Bears coach Jeff Linder, says it all:
"You can't let a team come in here and shoot 70 percent on your floor (in the second half)," Linder said. "They're a hard team to play when you're playing from behind.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/quartzglen/status/959484214193172485[/tweet]
cmtgrizzly
Well-known member
Good article GJ. Thanks for sharing. Fitting that the one picture of Moorehead is of him scrapping on the ground for a ball. That fight and his excellent rebounding are evidence of the type of play that has us where we are.
A couple of observations from a former crappy high school basketball coach:
1. Teams want to prevent run out, which is why you see so much dribble handoff stuff on the wing. Easier to to initiate offense when you can leverage a wing defender. What makes this team so difficult to play against, is they hedge so well on the perimeter. They make teams play consistently from 20 feet away. Most ball pick systems are designed on the dribble getting inside the 3 point line to force the defense to collapse. The passes are shorter and more vertical than horizontal. If you'll notice the number of passes against this team that after the ball pick are obstuse angle passes and slow.
The genius of the pack line concept is the ability to overplay the wing entry pass and still have help. You can jump that first long pass, knowing full well that you have a help side defender to stop or cut off penetration. You can get some cheap buckets from time to time, and Northern Colorado got more than most teams do if you can get off that ball screen hedge and turn the corner. My worry all year was a team like Northern Colorado, who is smaller and quicker, could challenge the hips of the wing defenders. Thus 30 fouls last night. Got a lot of hip check/hand check fouls last night.
2. Teams have figured out how to defend the wing ball exchange (witnessed by how well we defend the ball pick. What I have noticed, at least from years past, is that ball pick is now more vertical if it occurs outside of the 3 point line and if it is below there are better options off the pick. Oguine, Rorie and Falls are great getting clean lanes to the basket because they all are capable of getting a foot on the hoop side foot of the defender. When teams have to front the post entry, you get tons of lane to the basket. That weak side drive of Rories was something to behold.
The spacing is excellent, because when you face teams who have great help defense, you can't load the middle of the floor and expect to find lanes. Pridget, Morehead getting of clean wing to baseline looks because of what Falls, Oguine and Rorie are able to do off an initial ball screen, or wing reversal.
Last night was a clinic in simple wing entry into the post. Both Kryslovic and Akon are great post back to the basket post up guys. They got great leverage on the block and point blank hooks to the hoop. That is a rare skill in the face up era. Like in the first game, both Fab and Akoh had size advantage. I think teams get too cute on post entry or lose sight of how how it fits within a overall scheme. This team gets good looks from its post players both in isolated sets and within the scheme.
Even in its worst moments, this team doesn't settle all that often for marginal looks offensively. Last year, especially in closeout moments the passivity increased. In an era where 1v1 skills are exploited (thus dribble hand systems), there tends to be a lot more standing around by secondary options (thus 30 3 pt shots a game). Whatever the adjustment was or is (maturity, scheme change) I have seen more action at the hoop from all personnel this year than I have in nearly 30 years of watching Grizzly basketball.
Just some observations.
1. Teams want to prevent run out, which is why you see so much dribble handoff stuff on the wing. Easier to to initiate offense when you can leverage a wing defender. What makes this team so difficult to play against, is they hedge so well on the perimeter. They make teams play consistently from 20 feet away. Most ball pick systems are designed on the dribble getting inside the 3 point line to force the defense to collapse. The passes are shorter and more vertical than horizontal. If you'll notice the number of passes against this team that after the ball pick are obstuse angle passes and slow.
The genius of the pack line concept is the ability to overplay the wing entry pass and still have help. You can jump that first long pass, knowing full well that you have a help side defender to stop or cut off penetration. You can get some cheap buckets from time to time, and Northern Colorado got more than most teams do if you can get off that ball screen hedge and turn the corner. My worry all year was a team like Northern Colorado, who is smaller and quicker, could challenge the hips of the wing defenders. Thus 30 fouls last night. Got a lot of hip check/hand check fouls last night.
2. Teams have figured out how to defend the wing ball exchange (witnessed by how well we defend the ball pick. What I have noticed, at least from years past, is that ball pick is now more vertical if it occurs outside of the 3 point line and if it is below there are better options off the pick. Oguine, Rorie and Falls are great getting clean lanes to the basket because they all are capable of getting a foot on the hoop side foot of the defender. When teams have to front the post entry, you get tons of lane to the basket. That weak side drive of Rories was something to behold.
The spacing is excellent, because when you face teams who have great help defense, you can't load the middle of the floor and expect to find lanes. Pridget, Morehead getting of clean wing to baseline looks because of what Falls, Oguine and Rorie are able to do off an initial ball screen, or wing reversal.
Last night was a clinic in simple wing entry into the post. Both Kryslovic and Akon are great post back to the basket post up guys. They got great leverage on the block and point blank hooks to the hoop. That is a rare skill in the face up era. Like in the first game, both Fab and Akoh had size advantage. I think teams get too cute on post entry or lose sight of how how it fits within a overall scheme. This team gets good looks from its post players both in isolated sets and within the scheme.
Even in its worst moments, this team doesn't settle all that often for marginal looks offensively. Last year, especially in closeout moments the passivity increased. In an era where 1v1 skills are exploited (thus dribble hand systems), there tends to be a lot more standing around by secondary options (thus 30 3 pt shots a game). Whatever the adjustment was or is (maturity, scheme change) I have seen more action at the hoop from all personnel this year than I have in nearly 30 years of watching Grizzly basketball.
Just some observations.
bigforkgriz
Well-known member
What he said!Grizfan-24 said:
I think it has a lot to do with our rotation. We seem to sub in and out up to 8 players and lose nothing offensively or defensively. We get a lot of hip check fouls on the double teams, but we have a considerable amount of fouls to give with 8 quality players. Also the help outs underneath after the double teams on top are very good.
When I was at the Northern Arizona game Akoh, Rorie and Krislovic all had to sit with fouls or rest. I looked at who was on the floor and thought we were quite small and thought it was a bad time in the game to have that lineup. However, that is when we broke open the game to a double digit lead. I believe that is when Nicholas had his two consecutive massive blocks.
I get nervous sometimes if Oguine and Rorie ever sit at the same time, but it doesn’t seem to matter. No one in our conference plays defense the way we do.
cmtgrizzly
Well-known member
Rotations and schemes are helpful I am sure and puts the boys in position to use what I think is the most important aspect as to why they are succeeding- want to, effort, hustle by everyone of them.
garizzalies
Well-known member
If we lose at this level, it will likely be to a team that figures out and exploits the massive rotations following the extended hedge. Happened a few times last night. One of our bigs would be near mid-court and the offensive player would eventually turn the corner, and our big would be way out of position. It’s a long pass to the open man, but can lead to an easy dunk. Surprised UNC didn’t try it more, but that’s easy for me to say
grizonbob said:
A lot of teams do use it. When I started coaching 15 years ago, we called it helpside defense. The emphasis is to do one of about three different things:
1. Hedge as much as you can on ball screens. Fight over the top, versus running under. Requires the pick defender to slide and force the ball handler to flatten out their path to the basket (what you see Akoh and Krisolvic do) The recovery from the big man is to drop into passing lanes in the middle. All other defenders off that hedge try to get if they can, one foot in the key opposite of the ball.
2. Heavy deny wing passes. Do not let them catch the ball inside about 21 feet. All dribble wing entry is forced to the FT line area, rather than baseline. All defenders to ball side are heavy deny to the middle of the key, the backside defender is or should have his foot in the key. Which is why you see Morehead/Pridget/Falls fly at the skip pass player who shoots the 3 opposite side.
3. Force the kick out on the post. Everything should collapse if the post player gets the ball on the block. The wing defender can double down on the post to force kick out, if the post tries to spin middle then he should pivot into the backside or weak side low player. Again this is an evironment for runout to three point shooters. You want to force the weak skip pass (emphasis to defender is to travel on air). Teams have a penchant for shooting the three, but if you want to defeat the pack concept, you have to skip it and find the flash guy. (Northern Colorado did that last night) Your backside offensive players need to move into the space their defender vacates, but most offenses and players aren't geared toward that mentality.
When you have four guys who can defend multiple positions the traditional answers to it are hard. Morehead and Akoh/Krislovic and Nicolas are what make this so good at times. Most guys I have listened to about this are convinced that the packline or help concept works only if your 3/4 guys get it. Those guys have the most to do, most to be aware of and have to be super active. If you have an offense first 3/4, that wants to play offense more than defense, the packline probably won't work. The reason is the 3-4 is almost always the big mover backside.
I liken the concept to a matchup zone. Heavy on forcing the basketball into predictable movements. You can beat it, but you have to be patient. I prefer when running it to forcing teams to the right, and force them into their normal offensive pattern.
I have heard a number of coaches speak to this, but the defense is vulnerable when you treat it like a zone versus man. In other words, the key to zone is to get ball rotation and movement, with off ball players stepping into soft spaces.
Northern Colorado did a good job as i noted elsewhere in making the backside defender honor the weak side offensive player. They did a great job of finding the short corner opposite. Hard to do, but with their length at guard, they are one of the few teams that can pass with pace opposite.
Northern Colorado did a good job as i noted elsewhere in making the backside defender honor the weak side offensive player. They did a great job of finding the short corner opposite. Hard to do, but with their length at guard, they are one of the few teams that can pass with pace opposite.
