FVV uncut...

[GrizPony]

If it was brain surgery, I could understand your point better. What was it again? Oh yeah, keep rehashing the JJ case regardless of what happened and was decided. Got it.

 

[Raider]

If it was brain surgery, I could understand your point better. What was it again? Oh yeah, keep rehashing the JJ case regardless of what happened and was decided. Got it.

Yep!

Isn't it pathetic how some of these gals have used the JJ case for their personal platform?

Move on.............

 

[getgrizzy]

If it was brain surgery, I could understand your point better. What was it again? Oh yeah, keep rehashing the JJ case regardless of what happened and was decided. Got it.

hilarious. :lol: :lol:

i wasn't even going to post in this thread until you laid this nugget out there on page one.

The most crucial tweet was the one that said the deputy thought the evidence was too weak on the JJ accusation and that she never said no. If that was the case, you really have to question why the charges were brought don't you?

there was no such tweet regarding j.j. and i and someone else pointed that out to you, but as usual you're not even fazed when busted. maybe next time you'll get your facts straight the first time or own it when you don't.

a lot of people on this board can't reconcile themselves with the fact that j.j. being found not guilty doesn't make the girl's accusation false or mean that it was proven that he didn't rape her. it doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[GrizPony]

If it was brain surgery, I could understand your point better. What was it again? Oh yeah, keep rehashing the JJ case regardless of what happened and was decided. Got it.

hilarious. :lol: :lol:

i wasn't even going to post in this thread until you laid this nugget out there on page one.

The most crucial tweet was the one that said the deputy thought the evidence was too weak on the JJ accusation and that she never said no. If that was the case, you really have to question why the charges were brought don't you?

there was no such tweet regarding j.j. and i and someone else pointed that out to you, but as usual you're not even fazed when busted. maybe next time you'll get your facts straight the first time or own it when you don't.

a lot of people on this board can't reconcile themselves with the fact that j.j. being found not guilty doesn't make the girl's accusation false or mean that it was proven that he didn't rape her. it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Two posts later I admitted I must have had it wrong. You are the jackass that never learns or admits when you are wrong. Nice try moron.

 

[GrizPony]

The most crucial tweet was the one that said the deputy thought the evidence was too weak on the JJ accusation and that she never said no. If that was the case, you really have to question why the charges were brought don't you?

where's that? i see that comment about the gang rape case, not the j.j. case.

I must have read it wrong. I thought it was about the JJ trial. I talked with VV before the JJ charges and I felt originally that he was not going to charge him. I think the pressure did make him change his position but I don't know for sure.

Here is my admission dumb ass! Now admit you were wrong, or lied. I'm waiting. :roll:

 

[PlayerRep]

No you aren't "living with the facts". Even if you believed her testimony 100% it didn't rise to the level of the legal definition of rape. That's why the not guilty verdict was so quick. The law has precise standards and her testimony, even if believed, did not meet the standard for conviction. Those are the "facts". :thumb:

never said her testimony warranted a conviction. in fact i just got done saying i'm satisfied with the verdict. regardless, it doesn't mean i or anyone besides j.j. and his accuser knows what happened. so it's no more o.k. for someone to say the accuser was full of isht and that this was a false accusation, than it is for someone to say that j.j. is a rapist. fans simply want to believe he didn't do it and when someone tells them as a matter of fact that there's no way to know for sure, they can't handle it. it's just the way it is. you may as well accept that and move on. its not brain surgery.

Stop with your nonesense. If only 2 people are involved with something, of course, only 2 people know what occurred. The 2 of them may not even agree. People get convicted or acquitted all the time when there were only 2 people there. So what.

What is full of S, is your continuing blabbering, especially in the case, which was clearly decided and decided easily. You weren't in the court room. You obviously didn't follow the case closely.

Jeez, how about if JJ had been convicted, and now Pony and I were posting that he may have been found guility, but that doesn't mean he actually did it (ya know, only 2 people were there and know what occurred, and none of us were there).

I'm telling you, if you followed the case closely and were in court to hear the testimony and see the witnesses, any reasonable person would be saying exactly what Pony and I, and multiple other people, have been saying.

 

[getgrizzy]

The most crucial tweet was the one that said the deputy thought the evidence was too weak on the JJ accusation and that she never said no. If that was the case, you really have to question why the charges were brought don't you?

where's that? i see that comment about the gang rape case, not the j.j. case.

I must have read it wrong. I thought it was about the JJ trial. I talked with VV before the JJ charges and I felt originally that he was not going to charge him. I think the pressure did make him change his position but I don't know for sure.

Here is my admission dumb ass! Now admit you were wrong, or lied. I'm waiting. :roll:

i didn't say you didn't admit it. i said you weren't fazed. you brushed it off like obama brushes off scandals.

 

[getgrizzy]

No you aren't "living with the facts". Even if you believed her testimony 100% it didn't rise to the level of the legal definition of rape. That's why the not guilty verdict was so quick. The law has precise standards and her testimony, even if believed, did not meet the standard for conviction. Those are the "facts". :thumb:

never said her testimony warranted a conviction. in fact i just got done saying i'm satisfied with the verdict. regardless, it doesn't mean i or anyone besides j.j. and his accuser knows what happened. so it's no more o.k. for someone to say the accuser was full of isht and that this was a false accusation, than it is for someone to say that j.j. is a rapist. fans simply want to believe he didn't do it and when someone tells them as a matter of fact that there's no way to know for sure, they can't handle it. it's just the way it is. you may as well accept that and move on. its not brain surgery.

Jeez, how about if JJ had been convicted, and now Pony and I were posting that he may have been found guility, but that doesn't mean he actually did it (ya know, only 2 people were there and know what occurred, and none of us were there).

if people were acting like they knew for a fact j.j. did it, i'd be right there with you. that's why i'm saying what i'm saying. you and others act like there's no way he could've done it and the girl is a slut and a liar. that b.s. makes our fan base looks like a bunch of morons. the only thing i should stop is thinking that it isn't. i realize egriz is very small x-section but its still embarrassing.

 

[GrizPony]

You are the only moron I've dealt with since Growler got banned. :thumb:

 

[GrizPony]

where's that? i see that comment about the gang rape case, not the j.j. case.

I must have read it wrong. I thought it was about the JJ trial. I talked with VV before the JJ charges and I felt originally that he was not going to charge him. I think the pressure did make him change his position but I don't know for sure.

Here is my admission dumb ass! Now admit you were wrong, or lied. I'm waiting. :roll:

i didn't say you didn't admit it. i said you weren't fazed. you brushed it off like obama brushes off scandals.

The only posters who get "fazed" when they are "busted" are ones that intentionally lie like you. I wasn't fazed because I wasn't busted. Rather, I read it wrong and admitted it when it was pointed out. With your insecurity and guilt you wouldn't understand that process.

 

[UMGriz75]

Freddy Van, as he was referred to by his Blgs Central HS classmates, sure seems to have succumbed to outside pressure and now is showing signs of bitterness over his actions.

Fred is the most experienced criminal trial lawyer of the entire bunch involved in this fiasco, with more trial experience than his assistant, the state attorney shop loaner, and the ambitious private "pro bono" lawyer looking for a name, combined.

He knew it was going down. A week before the trial, the conversation was something along the lines of "that's it? This is all you've got?" And he ordered that a plea deal be offered, a misdemeanor I believe, that would have brought a tidal wave of condemnation from the PC crowd, but that Fred well knew was the best they could do with this case.

And that plea deal was argued; this had become a personal grudge match between two attorneys, with a PC overhang and a "Pulitzer Prize" going to the local rag, one of the attorneys on the prosecution side was not going to let go, and Missoula County was sucked into the resulting vacuum. It was finally offered. DP laughed.

And that is a DP strategy, "piss 'em off," and when it's BNSF, they invariably do something stupid. Less experienced attorneys walk too easily into the trap; indeed they run into it. DP had walked into an attorney gopher field, and had brought his 12 gauge; a couple of big egos on the other side, and not enough good judgment to back them up.

And Fred was likely the only adult on the prosecution side that saw it coming.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

UMGriz75, great post but it sure seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog in FVV's office. FVV was clearly in a reactive mode to the circumstances and not in a proactive mode. Did he have the option to dismiss the case before the trial based on the evidence at hand? It would have taken a real pair of them for him to do so.
Instead he offered a plea bargain of a misdemeanor charge. Someone had posted the victim was getting cold feet and did not want to go to trial. I applaud JJ for turning down the plea deal and for going through the angst and anguish of the trial. That decision sure seems to reinforce his innocence in my eyes. Yes I said innocence.

 

[UMGriz75]

Did he have the option to dismiss the case before the trial based on the evidence at hand? It would have taken a real pair of them for him to do so.

Not in Missoula, Montana; not with the social and political elites that run the place. I doubt that the presiding Judge would have permitted it; the political tailwind on this case was that strong.

Like Kirsten Pabst, making an unpopular decision here, with these kind of people, suddenly you lose your friends, you're shut out of organizations you helped to found, your family is shunned, and you get dropped from a lot of Christmas card lists.

It is the equivalent of becoming a Trotskyite.

 

[tnt]

Did he have the option to dismiss the case before the trial based on the evidence at hand? It would have taken a real pair of them for him to do so.

Not in Missoula, Montana; not with the social and political elites that run the place. I doubt that the presiding Judge would have permitted it; the political tailwind on this case was that strong.

Like Kirsten Pabst, making an unpopular decision here, with these kind of people, suddenly you lose your friends, you're shut out of organizations you helped to found, your family is shunned, and you get dropped from a lot of Christmas card lists.

It is the equivalent of becoming a Trotskyite.

Thats absolutely the truth. The trial had to happen, and not just for the reasons 75 stated. No one has paid a bigger price than Kirsten Pabst. It will take years for her to recover in the community. Its over we have had our fun here with it. Move on

 

[PlayerRep]

While tough for the stated political reasons, the case could have been thrown out by the judge when the motion to dismiss was filed in August.

My biggest criticism of the investigators/prosecutors is that they charged JJ before they had talked to the accuser about all of her inconsistent, exculpatory and curious texts. In fact, they didn't get any info on those texts until Paoli/Pabst interviewed the accuser in Nov/Dec. I don't know how any investigators/prosecutors could have charged without getting background and explanation of those texts. Another very interesting aspect of the case for me was the eventual realization that alot of the support people ( i.e. those in the areas of medical, rape crisis, law enforcement, prosecutors) went from being support people to enablers as the process went on, at least that was my impression. All very frightening.

 

[PlayerRep]

Did he have the option to dismiss the case before the trial based on the evidence at hand? It would have taken a real pair of them for him to do so.

Not in Missoula, Montana; not with the social and political elites that run the place. I doubt that the presiding Judge would have permitted it; the political tailwind on this case was that strong.

Like Kirsten Pabst, making an unpopular decision here, with these kind of people, suddenly you lose your friends, you're shut out of organizations you helped to found, your family is shunned, and you get dropped from a lot of Christmas card lists.

It is the equivalent of becoming a Trotskyite.

Thats absolutely the truth. The trial had to happen, and not just for the reasons 75 stated. No one has paid a bigger price than Kirsten Pabst. It will take years for her to recover in the community. Its over we have had our fun here with it. Move on

Probably true, but now more people know who she is, and many of us now have the utmost respect for her and her ability. She may now be a villain to some of her former friends/co-workers, but to me she is a real life hero. That's why she got a spontaneous standing ovation and many congratulations when she walked into the Depot Deck to get dinner following the trial. The Depot people said they had never seen any spontaneous reaction like that one, even for coaches who have just returned from a championship game.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Griz75, that is exactly my point. If I am understanding your post correctly, FVV had the legal option to dismiss the charges. Instead he chose to bow to the social and political pressure of Missoula residents and continue prosecuting a losing cause.
I am not an area resident so really have no right to vote my opinion. That being said and assuming FVV felt the case was not strong enough to win, does that not show the county attorney was not strong enough to stand up to political pressure?

 

[tnt]

Griz75, that is exactly my point. If I am understanding your post correctly, FVV had the legal option to dismiss the charges. Instead he chose to bow to the social and political pressure of Missoula residents and continue prosecuting a losing cause.
I am not an area resident so really have no right to vote my opinion. That being said and assuming FVV felt the case was not strong enough to win, does that not show the county attorney was not strong enough to stand up to political pressure?

Beyond just the local issues. How many years would it have taken JJ to overcome "dismisssed charges"? T star quarterback who got off in a football town? The not guilty verdict is a bunch of help.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Good point tnt and that is likely why JJ insisted on going to trial and why that position points to his belief he was innocent. I do think JVV's comment about not guilty not being innocent is either sour grapes or a cheap shot.
In a more just world, politics would not have any bearing on the judicial system. But still our judicial system, while having some flaws, is really performing quite well.

 

[tnt]

Good point tnt and that is likely why JJ insisted on going to trial and why that position points to his belief he was innocent. I do think JVV's comment about not guilty not being innocent is either sour grapes or a cheap shot.
In a more just world, politics would not have any bearing on the judicial system. But still our judicial system, while having some flaws, is really performing quite well.

It might have been sour grapes, but more than likely it was water on a growing fire. There honest to gosh was a possibility of a down town demonstration escalating into something worse. The community did a good job keeping the lid on. A face book photo of JJ the team and DP celebrating quickly disappeared among other things. I was pretty impressed by the sensitivity shown by all.