For all those curious about the overall landscape of recruiting

[HelenaHandBasket]

This is the head coach at Mt Spokane HS.

Terry Cloer
@TerryCloer
The transfer portal is killing high school recruiting!! We won a league title, made the state playoffs and I’ve seen ZERO college coaches at our school since. There were years I would see up to 30 before signing day.

 

[IdaGriz01]

This is the head coach at Mt Spokane HS.

Terry Cloer
@TerryCloer
The transfer portal is killing high school recruiting!! We won a league title, made the state playoffs and I’ve seen ZERO college coaches at our school since. There were years I would see up to 30 before signing day.

Good place to post the link to the "long article" posted in a separate thread by mthoopsfan.
https://www.theringer.com/college-f...llege-football-alabama-nick-saban-georgia-lsu
You don't have to read "between the lines" to see that this was/is bound to happen. Here's another quote from the article:

The last 20 years have been the great swerve of college hoops, where coaches who figured out what was happening quickly and built programs around it won, and those who didn’t were left behind. A similar shift is happening in college football. The sport’s top talent will not be one-and-done in college, but they might be one-and-done in a specific program. Evaluating, recruiting, and developing those players in a short window is going to become the lifeblood of the sport.

Why take a chance on an unknown (essentially) high school player, when you can harvest the portal for proven players who can fill your specific gaps? The big programs, in particular, will likely recruit those few HS phenoms that get a lot of publicity.

 

[Griz til I die]

That's tragic!

 

[griz4life]

Joe Glenn was the coach that recruited the Spokane area hard. He got Jonny Varona, Chris Snyder, Kevin Edwards, Blake Horgan, to name a few. There's a half million people between Spokane and the Idaho Panhandle.
I know every Griz coach recruits the area, but Glenn did particularly well

 

[uofmman1122]

If the bigger, better programs stop getting hs students, and instead focus on transfers, it's reasonable to assume the lower level teams will then, by necessity, start to get better hs recruits.

It's a zero-sum situation. Those eventual transfers have to enter as a hs student somewhere.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

If the bigger, better programs stop getting hs students, and instead focus on transfers, it's reasonable to assume the lower level teams will then, by necessity, start to get better hs recruits.

It's a zero-sum situation. Those eventual transfers have to enter as a hs student somewhere.

It is my understanding that even the smaller schools are focusing less and less on high schools also. I read a post by Ryland Spencer, who has been the go to guy for keeping up with recruiting in Washington, that the only schools that had any representation at the Championship games of the 2 largest classifications were EWU, Oregon, and USC. It seems that athletic departments are putting much more $$$ into recruiting the portal while cutting back $$$ on high school recruiting. I also think the extra Covid year fallout is still an issue.

 

[RayWill]

Joe Glenn was the coach that recruited the Spokane area hard. He got Jonny Varona, Chris Snyder, Kevin Edwards, Blake Horgan, to name a few. There's a half million people between Spokane and the Idaho Panhandle.
I know every Griz coach recruits the area, but Glenn did particularly well

This staff has heavily recruited the area as well. They just have not been successful in getting them. They need to go after some of the Sandpoint kids. There is some big tough boys on that team. The kind that really show DOLA.

 

[uofmman1122]

If the bigger, better programs stop getting hs students, and instead focus on transfers, it's reasonable to assume the lower level teams will then, by necessity, start to get better hs recruits.

It's a zero-sum situation. Those eventual transfers have to enter as a hs student somewhere.

It is my understanding that even the smaller schools are focusing less and less on high schools also. I read a post by Ryland Spencer, who has been the go to guy for keeping up with recruiting in Washington, that the only schools that had any representation at the Championship games of the 2 largest classifications were EWU, Oregon, and USC. It seems that athletic departments are putting much more $$$ into recruiting the portal while cutting back $$$ on high school recruiting. I also think the extra Covid year fallout is still an issue.

There are definitely more college football players right now than maybe ever before, due to the covid eligibility changes, but the idea that every school only focuses on the portal is unsustainable as a practice. Basic survival analysis proves it. If this really is the case, the teams that pivot HARD to hs recruiting in a year or two are going to have their choice of borderline blue chip recruits that are no longer a priority at most other schools.

 

[IdaGriz01]

If the bigger, better programs stop getting hs students, and instead focus on transfers, it's reasonable to assume the lower level teams will then, by necessity, start to get better hs recruits.

It's a zero-sum situation. Those eventual transfers have to enter as a hs student somewhere.

Absolutely!

I'm not exactly sure on the interpretation of the NCAA rules, but they do mention "classes" (class of 2022) ... so it may be the schools are required to grant scholarships to a certain number of new in-coming students. Don't know how that might play out. But I would guess it will "regionalize" a larger segment of the HS recruiting area. Again, why spend a lot of money recruiting uncertain(?) HS players, unless they're 5-stars that you might possibly land? Bring in the best from your region, and hope they work out. And if they star – and you're a mid- or lower-level – figure they won't be around for four years.

Sad, but I suspect that could be "the new normal."

 

[bgbigdog]

So Semb shared on twitter in a conversation that 1472 FBS players hit the portal in 2021. 42% didn't find a home, 4% withdrew. Of those who did find a new team, 13% wound up below the FBS level, some even below the FCS level. He didn't have numbers on the FCS level. Forty percent of kids who enter the portal, never really come out the other side of it a as player somewhere else. Probably not dis-similar to the percentages of kids who wash out of programs over the course of the five years their recruiting classes progress.

If the FCS is in the realm of the FBS, that's less than 2K kids who wind up being courted by one or more of 254 FBS/FCS schools playing football today. You can all do the math better than me, but to count on remaking a team from the portal, without a dam fine base of kids you've recruited from HS, and hopefully developed yourselves, would be a piss-poor way to run a program.

Got to be a well-rounded in the recruiting of kids, no matter the conduit or avenue of obtaining them. That isn't simply announcing that the roster will be a founded first and foremost on in-state kids, or showing up in their living rooms, evaluating the parents and determining if there's a fit based on them paying to show up in Missoula for a few days over the course of the summer.

Like it or not, it's more complex. And the transfer portal is only symptom of the actual issue.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

It is my understanding that even the smaller schools are focusing less and less on high schools also. I read a post by Ryland Spencer, who has been the go to guy for keeping up with recruiting in Washington, that the only schools that had any representation at the Championship games of the 2 largest classifications were EWU, Oregon, and USC. It seems that athletic departments are putting much more $$$ into recruiting the portal while cutting back $$$ on high school recruiting. I also think the extra Covid year fallout is still an issue.

There are definitely more college football players right now than maybe ever before, due to the covid eligibility changes, but the idea that every school only focuses on the portal is unsustainable as a practice. Basic survival analysis proves it. If this really is the case, the teams that pivot HARD to hs recruiting in a year or two are going to have their choice of borderline blue chip recruits that are no longer a priority at most other schools.

I agree. I think it's going to regulate once COVID years are a thing of the past.
In a closed system of four teams (ABCD) and four players (1234):

Year one: A has 1, B has 2, and so on.
Year two: 1 graduates, 2 txfers to C, 3 txfers to D, 4 txfers to A. B needs a player, but 1 is gone. Where does B go to get the player?

Is that kind of (very simply) what you were saying?

 

[uofmman1122]

So Semb shared on twitter in a conversation that 1472 FBS players hit the portal in 2021. 42% didn't find a home, 4% withdrew. Of those who did find a new team, 13% wound up below the FBS level, some even below the FCS level. He didn't have numbers on the FCS level. Forty percent of kids who enter the portal, never really come out the other side of it a as player somewhere else. Probably not dis-similar to the percentages of kids who wash out of programs over the course of the five years their recruiting classes progress.

If the FCS is in the realm of the FBS, that's less than 2K kids who wind up being courted by one or more of 254 FBS/FCS schools playing football today. You can all do the math better than me, but to count on remaking a team from the portal, without a dam fine base of kids you've recruited from HS, and hopefully developed yourselves, would be a piss-poor way to run a program.

Got to be a well-rounded in the recruiting of kids, no matter the conduit or avenue of obtaining them. That isn't simply announcing that the roster will be a founded first and foremost on in-state kids, or showing up in their living rooms, evaluating the parents and determining if there's a fit based on them paying to show up in Missoula for a few days over the course of the summer.

Like it or not, it's more complex. And the transfer portal is only symptom of the actual issue.

This year, over 1,000 FBS kids hit the portal in the first 24 hours. It's going to be way more than 1,472 this year, and likely next year, too. There are also close to 750 kids from FCS in the portal right now, as well. Last year was a weird year where rosters had too many kids due to covid exemptions on them, and spots weren't as open as they normally are. This year a huge number of those kids can't stick around anymore and need a new school if they want to play more.

I agree with you that you can't just look at the portal and ignore hs kids, but the number of kids moving this year is probably going to be a lot more than we've ever seen before.

 

[griz4life]

Joe Glenn was the coach that recruited the Spokane area hard. He got Jonny Varona, Chris Snyder, Kevin Edwards, Blake Horgan, to name a few. There's a half million people between Spokane and the Idaho Panhandle.
I know every Griz coach recruits the area, but Glenn did particularly well

This staff has heavily recruited the area as well. They just have not been successful in getting them. They need to go after some of the Sandpoint kids. There is some big tough boys on that team. The kind that really show DOLA.

There always seems to be a few Spokane area coaches who feel their athletes are under recruited. Maybe that's the Mt. Spokane crew this year. I seem to recall the Rogers coach thinking his athletes were under recruited within the last couples years.

I wouldn't' suggest there's something special in the water that makes good recruits. I do think that there's a synergy when there are so many teams that there always seems to be camps or clinics to compete in year round.

 

[GoldStandardGriz]

This is the head coach at Mt Spokane HS.

Terry Cloer
@TerryCloer
The transfer portal is killing high school recruiting!! We won a league title, made the state playoffs and I’ve seen ZERO college coaches at our school since. There were years I would see up to 30 before signing day.

I have no idea, but my first inclination is to think that maybe there aren't athletes worth a scholarship on his roster. With Hudl and similar sites, I would think there's enough film to do an evaluation on players before making the trip to the HS campus. Just a thought. Anyone out there know if there are worthy players at this school?
Plenty of HS kids elsewhere getting offered.

 

[bgbigdog]

So Semb shared on twitter in a conversation that 1472 FBS players hit the portal in 2021. 42% didn't find a home, 4% withdrew. Of those who did find a new team, 13% wound up below the FBS level, some even below the FCS level. He didn't have numbers on the FCS level. Forty percent of kids who enter the portal, never really come out the other side of it a as player somewhere else. Probably not dis-similar to the percentages of kids who wash out of programs over the course of the five years their recruiting classes progress.

If the FCS is in the realm of the FBS, that's less than 2K kids who wind up being courted by one or more of 254 FBS/FCS schools playing football today. You can all do the math better than me, but to count on remaking a team from the portal, without a dam fine base of kids you've recruited from HS, and hopefully developed yourselves, would be a piss-poor way to run a program.

Got to be a well-rounded in the recruiting of kids, no matter the conduit or avenue of obtaining them. That isn't simply announcing that the roster will be a founded first and foremost on in-state kids, or showing up in their living rooms, evaluating the parents and determining if there's a fit based on them paying to show up in Missoula for a few days over the course of the summer.

Like it or not, it's more complex. And the transfer portal is only symptom of the actual issue.

This year, over 1,000 FBS kids hit the portal in the first 24 hours. It's going to be way more than 1,472 this year, and likely next year, too. There are also close to 750 kids from FCS in the portal right now, as well. Last year was a weird year where rosters had too many kids due to covid exemptions on them, and spots weren't as open as they normally are. This year a huge number of those kids can't stick around anymore and need a new school if they want to play more.

I agree with you that you can't just look at the portal and ignore hs kids, but the number of kids moving this year is probably going to be a lot more than we've ever seen before.

No doubt there will be many more kids in the portal. Some of my point was that a large portion of them never come out the other side, or step down because they realize they can't compete, are too far away from home, and a variety of other reasons - including being told their scholarships aren't being renewed.

And as you point out, a Covid year puts things in turbo. My hunch is there will be even more kids who don't have a landing spot somewhere, so more than half of them don't find a new team. What's left to consider, will likely be picked over thoroughly with what's at stake for various staffs, including this one.

 

[Butte Griz]

I'm sorry but I already know that I am going cause most of you wish me dead, but the generations we are talking about asked for the portal and NIL. These young adults fought for and some even took legal action for this and got what THEY wanted.
Now they must live their choices.

 

[Fahque]

There are definitely more college football players right now than maybe ever before, due to the covid eligibility changes, but the idea that every school only focuses on the portal is unsustainable as a practice. Basic survival analysis proves it. If this really is the case, the teams that pivot HARD to hs recruiting in a year or two are going to have their choice of borderline blue chip recruits that are no longer a priority at most other schools.

I agree. I think it's going to regulate once COVID years are a thing of the past.
In a closed system of four teams (ABCD) and four players (1234):

Year one: A has 1, B has 2, and so on.
Year two: 1 graduates, 2 txfers to C, 3 txfers to D, 4 txfers to A. B needs a player, but 1 is gone. Where does B go to get the player?

Is that kind of (very simply) what you were saying?

I was told there would be no math…

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

This is the head coach at Mt Spokane HS.

Terry Cloer
@TerryCloer
The transfer portal is killing high school recruiting!! We won a league title, made the state playoffs and I’ve seen ZERO college coaches at our school since. There were years I would see up to 30 before signing day.

I have no idea, but my first inclination is to think that maybe there aren't athletes worth a scholarship on his roster. With Hudl and similar sites, I would think there's enough film to do an evaluation on players before making the trip to the HS campus. Just a thought. Anyone out there know if there are worthy players at this school?
Plenty of HS kids elsewhere getting offered.

I think part of the issue, and I have heard it from a couple other coaches in the area, is they have not been contacted by any college programs. I would think that it would make sense for colleges to at least reach out a few times, as relationships with high school coaches can matter, just not for this year, but down the road.

 

[Spanky2]

I would like to see UM recruit more in California, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Hawaii. Spokane is fine as well. Time to upgrade and move away from the top heavy Montana kid roster.