Football Team's letter to Griz Nation

[Gaeilge1]

That is not what was meant or implied. Yet as long as you brought it up, I never said that something wasn't wrong, but I think we are still a society that believes you are innocent until proven guilty! It seems to me that too many in this debate are deciding that these young men are guilty of crimes that in many instances have not even been charged, simply alleged.

Don't get me wrong, I am not blindly supporting the team simply because I am a fan and an alum. Neither am I supporting any illegal activity by any individual associated with Grizzly Athletics or the University or any other illegal activity. I am supporting their efforts because, in the face of a mindblowing situation, they have taken the time to speak with one voice and to advise of their commitment to honor their obligations.

 

[Gametime]

That is a really great statement, by a group of young men, that understand the big picture of life. You have my 100% support.

 

[grizrgood]

Great letter!

Griz Nation must come together and this is a good start! :thumb:

 

[grizare#1]

Unless there is something else coming that we have not heard yet that RP did or did not do he simply got PHUCKED
I applaud the team for the letter and will be ordering my tickets today.
Go GRIZ

 

[Tokyogriz]

I think you are not accounting for the emotional element of this and the fact that young men feel betrayed by the administration. This could have been handled much better by Royce and the administration. When you leave kids in the dark pertaining to why their coach was fired - they are going to be frustrated. To compound the problem, many of these kids know details related to some of the allegations and charges filed against their fellow players. Stuff the rest of us have no idea about. I think this letter was pretty well written considering the emotionally charged atmosphere. I support the team, these kids, their parents, and Griz Nation!

You make excellent points, and I agree with everything you said (except the Royce part ... I really have no idea how else he could have handled it).

I'm just saying that the letter would have been much better had they removed that one section. But I do understand that they section was their emotions speaking, and it looks like they tried to word it as well as they could to mask their emotions, but they still come through. But at the end of the day, it would have been ideal, for PR purposes (which are absolutely important right now), if they had just decided to cut out that whole bit of emotion.[/quote]

Bullshit these kids are entitled to their emotions and have a right to understand why these things are occuring. You stated before that they need to know now that they are guilty of any allegations until proven innocent also bullshit. This is america were EVERYONE is innocent until charged, then found guilty in court.

A new article regarding this letter by fritz in Missoulian

"UM football players say they'll continue, but want answers"


UM football players say they'll continue, but want answers

Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-football-players-say-they-ll-continue-but-want-answers/article_5a8272e4-7ab4-11e1-b8a3-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1qe63AGtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is not a private corporation were you can just do anything you want. The University of Montana is a public entity and we deserve a real explanation for this period. Public pressure is mounting and Engstrom will likely be forced into being honest about this.

In regards to the letter it is well thought out and accepts that the team needs to do thier best to keep things going. As far as Bay area cats and homies attacks on them saying "allegations" in their letter that is exactly what the JJ incident is so far and ALLEGATION, with no arrest, no conviction. These young men are not criminals unless they have broken some law themselves and been found guilty of doing so.

Engstrom doesnt seem interested in even following the new guidelines created in regards to the JJ issue.

Holding athletes up on a pedastal only to tear them down on any allegation even if its not credible is not what America is all about.

 

[krammer]

how in the world anyone can say that this was NOT a classy letter and gester by the whole griz team is way beyond me.....i feel sorry for all you folks who feel that way.....

 

[JBS]

To that point, I suspect the days of assuming that just because somebody has not yet been convicted of a crime that nobody has done anything wrong have come to an end at UM. This seems to be one of the message implied in the firings.

And do you agree with what you just wrote or is that an observation only? Because that is advocating taking away one of the most fundamental rights we have. But hey, everyone on here is doing that these days. No more rights for the accused at the UofM!! Martial law imposed for the football team only!! What you wrote was stupid and scary. On top of that, the kids shouldn't be allowed to say what they think, it should have to be approved by some PR department for the greater good of the UM faculty and administration. And they should throw their buddies under the bus at the same time. The most important thing is to be PC and don't cause any waves. Bullshit! Some of this crap from people claiming the moral high ground may sound good, but it is stupid and dangerous thinking when you are talking about felony charges.

 

[mcg]

To be brutally honest, a letter from the team in the midst of all of this that would fall into the "classy" category in my mind (and my opinion probably is reflective of a vast majority of people) would be one in which the players proactively spoke out against sexual assault and/or placed the emphasis of their concern on the well-being of victims of sexual assault. Or maybe one where they acknowledged the problems the team has had off-the-field and pledged to "be their brother's keeper" going-forward to police each other in order to prevent players from getting into trouble among their own ranks in the future. In other words, a classy letter would be one that admits fault and pledges to be proactive in making things right.

Instead, this letter seems to be primarily a plea for support from their fanbase for their on-field activities, along with a (as it has been described) passive-aggressive section in the middle where they seem to play the victim and take no real responsibility for actions they as a team collectively have taken that led to their coach and AD being fired.

I would have liked the players to take a little more responsibility for their actions. The brutal reality is that this s**t storm is a result of the behavior of a few of the players.

I wonder who drafted the letter? Was it a player? It is well written and we know for sure that the players have a better communication program than the President.

 

[montanaguy]

To that point, I suspect the days of assuming that just because somebody has not yet been convicted of a crime that nobody has done anything wrong have come to an end at UM. This seems to be one of the message implied in the firings.

And do you agree with what you just wrote or is that an observation only? Because that is advocating taking away one of the most fundamental rights we have. But hey, everyone on here is doing that these days. No more rights for the accused at the UofM!! Martial law imposed for the football team only!! What you wrote was stupid and scary. On top of that, the kids shouldn't be allowed to say what they think, it should have to be approved by some PR department for the greater good of the UM faculty and administration. And they should throw their buddies under the bus at the same time. The most important thing is to be PC and don't cause any waves. Bullshit! Some of this crap from people claiming the moral high ground may sound good, but it is stupid and dangerous thinking when you are talking about felony charges.

:thumb: :clap:

 

[Griz90]

GrizNation has your back boys. From every nook and cranny of this great state and from all over the world where our alumni have scattered, GrizNation has your back. Stand tall. Stand together. We will right this ship and GrizNation will be stronger for it. As for the stinking Cat fans and their drivel, what else would we expect. The naysayers will pile on and kick us while we're down. But we won't be down for long my friends. Stand tall GrizNation. Stand together. Go Griz!

 

[griz71]

Outstanding composition by a terrific group of student/athletes reflecting the exceptional quality of education they are receiving at the University of Montana. Hats off to these articulate young men demonstrating such poise and class in a most difficult matter. :clap: :thumb:

 

[Umista]

Good job and a very good letter from our team! We are in a deep hurt at the moment for two great guys that got fired. They will bounce back and do just fine, right now it is a very sorry time for them and our team. Remember this, our fierce support for our team has not changed, we are behind our team 100%.

Team, discount any and all statements from other teams such as the blather by the cat-peeing posters. They don't have a dime in our situation and employ "the pile on mentality" usually reserved for poor losers!

This was a great letter from all of you Griz players and it shows a ton of class! Further, do not continue to read the blind posters on this board from now on as most of it is simple minded junk......!!!

 

[TheTruth]

Great work Griz Players. That was a well written, and classy letter. :clap:

This shows LEADERSHIP from the PLAYERS. this is what we need... the players play and they must hold each other ACCOUNTABLE, and support each other through hard times!



Now back to grinding toward the ultimate GOAL: A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

 

[Bay Area Cat]

To that point, I suspect the days of assuming that just because somebody has not yet been convicted of a crime that nobody has done anything wrong have come to an end at UM. This seems to be one of the message implied in the firings.

And do you agree with what you just wrote or is that an observation only? Because that is advocating taking away one of the most fundamental rights we have. But hey, everyone on here is doing that these days. No more rights for the accused at the UofM!! Martial law imposed for the football team only!! What you wrote was stupid and scary. On top of that, the kids shouldn't be allowed to say what they think, it should have to be approved by some PR department for the greater good of the UM faculty and administration. And they should throw their buddies under the bus at the same time. The most important thing is to be PC and don't cause any waves. Bullshit! Some of this crap from people claiming the moral high ground may sound good, but it is stupid and dangerous thinking when you are talking about felony charges.

:thumb: :clap:

It is an observation.

As to whether I agree ... that's far too complex of a question to try to discuss in this emotionally charged venue (short answer -- it depends on the situation ... and the standards of the legal system are not those that other entities are bound to).

Having stepped away for awhile and now coming back (my belly blessed with one more beer within it), I realize that I probably shouldn't have said anything at all, as the wounds are all far too fresh for everyone here to really discuss this in the context I was trying to discuss it. And I get that -- I was in your shoes not that long ago. I should have recognized that sooner and just stayed out of the discussion.

Perhaps in a few months, when the emotions have died down, it will be a better time to discuss these sorts of things. My sincere apologies ... I know how much this sucks.

 

[Tokyogriz]

Actually your original post is exactly what you and most of the lynch mob people on here truely believe. UM football players are guilty of any accusation and need to pay the price before any evidence, charge, or conviction.

No one else at UM has to live with this double standard though. This would include academic scholarship students, regular students, UM employees, and of course dear MR Engstrom. These folks still have the rights granted to us all as americans, but kids playing football do not.

 

[JBS]

To that point, I suspect the days of assuming that just because somebody has not yet been convicted of a crime that nobody has done anything wrong have come to an end at UM. This seems to be one of the message implied in the firings.

And do you agree with what you just wrote or is that an observation only? Because that is advocating taking away one of the most fundamental rights we have. But hey, everyone on here is doing that these days. No more rights for the accused at the UofM!! Martial law imposed for the football team only!! What you wrote was stupid and scary. On top of that, the kids shouldn't be allowed to say what they think, it should have to be approved by some PR department for the greater good of the UM faculty and administration. And they should throw their buddies under the bus at the same time. The most important thing is to be PC and don't cause any waves. Bullshit! Some of this crap from people claiming the moral high ground may sound good, but it is stupid and dangerous thinking when you are talking about felony charges.

:thumb: :clap:

It is an observation.

As to whether I agree ... that's far too complex of a question to try to discuss in this emotionally charged venue (short answer -- it depends on the situation ... and the standards of the legal system are not those that other entities are bound to).

Having stepped away for awhile and now coming back (my belly blessed with one more beer within it), I realize that I probably shouldn't have said anything at all, as the wounds are all far too fresh for everyone here to really discuss this in the context I was trying to discuss it. And I get that -- I was in your shoes not that long ago. I should have recognized that sooner and just stayed out of the discussion.

Perhaps in a few months, when the emotions have died down, it will be a better time to discuss these sorts of things. My sincere apologies ... I know how much this sucks.

You have me wrong. I've read and posted on here for 2 days without getting emotional. All I've done is tell what I think about the situation and reading crap on both sides that I think is ridiculous. This thread is the only one that has pissed me off. Here I am reading along and actually enjoying the comments when BAM! here they come! I couldn't believe anyone could come up with something stupid to say about this letter. And it pissed me off. I get emotional about my kids trials and tribulations, not about a game. It's disapointing to me, and I have problems with the timing of it, but I'm not emotional about it and certainly capable of discussing it.
That being said, there is absolutely no situation where anyones fundamental rights should be taken away from them. None. To take away someones right to the assumption of innocence without even a charge, let alone a conviction, is as unconstitutional as it gets. And I am reading a lot of stuff on here, even from folks whose posts I've enjoyed and agreed with for years, that seems to be advocating just that. Keep in mind I am talking about the rape allegations, not the obvious and verifiable discipline problems that have been ongoing. They piss me off just as much as the next guy.

 

[Bay Area Cat]

Just to clear up a misconception that seems to be out there, I fully agree with the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" in our legal system.

That said, I am also aware of the concept of many private organizations/employers/etc. punishing or firing people within those entities for conduct they didn't approve of. Very few of those situations involve a criminal conviction in a court of law.

Can we all agree that the two concepts are not one and the same?

Assuming the answer is "yes," can we then please stop invoking the Constitution each time somebody makes any reference to punishment doled out within an organization?

 

[mtgrizrule]

Simply amazing in a few ways. (1) That anyone would find fault in this. (2) This level of maturity, and level headed thinking from how many 18 to 23 year olds?

Rather they talked about this collectively, then got counsel, or it was brought to them,and they decided this needed to be done, I don't know. I do know I have never heard of any college, or pro team have its team write a letter to a fanbase, and community, then taking ownership, and responsibility in issues caused by teammates no longer, or soon to be no longer on the team. This is damn impressive from any group, of any age.

Another thread mentioned who the leaders are? I think we have our answers, whoever the leaders are, they are going above, and beyond. I do not know the number of players we will be losing, and not sure if the players even know. I do know, no matter what the number, I am confident this will be the most cohesive returning unit we can expect, and after a letter like that, their will be accountability amongst every player, and every coach. If they are all on the same page on this, then in my mind, they are all leaders, and role models, for the better. I applaud whoever this team consists of for this action.

With that said, I hope they realize how much more they have put themselves in the spotlight within the Missoula Community, than ever before. As to if that will be good, or bad, only time will tell. I do not want to imagine the next time a player crosses a line, or makes dumb decision off the field, how much scrutiny, and criticism, that player will get. It will be well beyond the norm.

This letter has made me an even prouder GRIZ fan, and am giving the players a level of respect beyond my normal level of respect, and if possible, even more support to them. I believe that will be the case for the majority of GRIZNATION.

Speaking of support, you guys have my support, and am praying every team members is committed to off the field excellence from this point forward. I pray however you guys do it, you watch out for one another like never before, and better yet, start an off field tradition to be proud of. I hope you guys can have your fun away from the bars, groups of women, drugs, alcohol, and shady characters. Even if that means having the balls to tell your fellow teammate that GIRL X is bad medicine, or trouble, and just trust each others insights. When it comes to women, most men, of all ages tend to wear blinders, and only friends and family, can see for them.

After reading this letter, I can honestly say, "I am looking forward to this season, just as much as I look forward to GRIZ basketball." It has been many of years since I have been able to have that kind of pride, and conviction with GRIZ football. I look forward to every season, in both sports, but basketball in time has become my preference. Why? Well the off the field BS every off season, for far too many years, in my opinion.

My best wishes to every player, parent, and coach. I hope and pray, the players live up to this letter, as for off the field. I have no doubts about on the field.

WE ARE MONTANA, WE ARE GRIZNATION.
2012 motto "Survive, and Thrive!!!"

 

[ben dover]

"As student athletes of this university we are left without an answer as to why our two leaders, Coach Pflugrad and Jim O'Day, are gone." i suggest you think about what all has happened in the last few years and think about it for a while. i would guess these new coaches are coming in with a short rope. want to get tazed by the cops it isn't going to be sitting out one qtr of the next game. dwi no big deal no more letting the law run its course screw up, good chance your gone. the head coach and ad are gone because of the actions of a few members of your team it isn't because everybody is out to get you. people are just tired of the b.s.

 

[Tokyogriz]

That said, I am also aware of the concept of many private organizations/employers/etc. punishing or firing people within those entities for conduct they didn't approve of. Very few of those situations involve a criminal conviction in a court of law.

The University of Montana is a part of the Montana State goverment not a private organization. They dont get the luxury of selective punishments you would like to see.

A school like BYU on the other hand is not a goverment entity and has setup ridiculous guidelines IMO that football athletes are not allowed pre martital relations and doing so is grounds for dismisal.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/feed/2011-03/davies-suspension/story/byus-davies-kicked-off-team-for-having-premarital-sex" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dont try to back pedal on your comments about UM athletes guilty and deserving punishment before any due process at all. That is EXACTLY what you believe, same with Alpha, Growler, Engstrom, and the rest of the lynch mob.