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Foolerton

My error. I ass/u/me/(d) that when you specifically stated" 7000-8000" that there was objective criteria. Still, when teams in the Salt Lake City, Portland, and Sacramento Metropolitan Statistical Areas can only produce such pathetic attendance figures, then SOMETHING needs to be done, and what better a time than when a new Commissioner is chosen.
 
According to NCAA attendance figures, the Big Sky was 22nd out of 32 Division I conferences in men's basketball attendance last year (2108 per game) -- that's down from 18th in both 2013 and 2014. Cleary the historical trend is downward: with slight bumps up in specific years, Big Sky attendance has gone down consistently from 1987, when it reached a high over 5,000 per game. That same attendance today would put the Big Sky in the top 10 in the nation.

So what happened? Well, Boise State, Idaho and Reno left the league, all three schools that, back in the 1980s and 90s were drawing fairly significant crowds -- and who also were league rivals for Idaho State and could guarantee putting 4,000 fans or more in the seats when they visited Pocatello. (And yes, Idaho did come back to the league, but when they returned they brought a shell of their former powerhouse program and dwindling attendance numbers).

Those schools that traditionally drew well were replaced by schools like Portland State and Sac State, who traditionally do NOT draw well. You had the erosion of the fan base in Pocatello, where Idaho State used to draw 4 to 5,000 fans for games against Weber, Montana, Boise State and Idaho, and almost always over 3,000 for conference games. The long run of bad basketball coupled with the deterioration over time of facilities has dragged the fan base down to about 1,500 a game for Idaho State.

And then you have the gradual, but noticeable decline of the fan base among the league "powers," Montana and Weber State, who still lead the conference in attendance, but rarely ever fill the house like they used to back in the "glory days."

Finally, you have the fact that college basketball, outside the top 9 or 10 conferences, has become a boutique sport. The American Conference ranked No. 8 in average basketball attendance last year -- at just 6,284 a game. Weber State beats that most nights. There is very little difference in attendance from the 13th rated conference (Mid-American) down to No. 23 (Sun Belt). The MAC averaged 2,885 per game, the Sun Belt 2,039. Hardly discernible in the grand scheme of things. For a whole host of reasons -- too many games on TV, one-and-done nature of its best players, smothering nature of all things football -- college basketball is just not a hot sport in all but the biggest hotbeds.

I am cautiously hopeful a new Big Sky Commissioner will get some kind of endorsement from the people who hire him -- the Presidents --- to pursue a more aggressive agenda to improve Big Sky basketball. A TV contract would be great (although I'm not sure how many people will watch Big Sky games with SO much other basketball on, but at least you can tell a recruit he's going to be on TV). Scheduling agreements with other, similar D-1 conferences like the Big West and the WAC would also be a step forward. And incentives to improve facilities and attendance would also be a nice idea. But keep in mind, many of these things have been tried already (a number of conferences have turned down Big Sky overtures to have a "challenge" style tournament, for example), and many conference schools are facing decreasing enrollments, and don't have the "deep pocket" supporters needed to build new facilities. Keep in mind, also, that football typically wags the dog in just about every athletic department, and nothing is going be done that takes away resources from football programs.

But a new perspective on these issues would certainly be welcome from the Commissioners Office, and hopefully that would reflect a new concern from the Presidents who ultimately will have to endorse -- and pay for -- any such changes.
 
Other conferences have turned down games against the bsc programs because the bsc wants home and home. Until we can get our RPI above second to last in the nation, absolutely NO ONE will play games at our place, and no one wants our teams in tournaments. There's absolutely no reason to. I don't blame those teams or conferences a bit.

The bsc has to realize that they need to schedule road games at pac12, WCC, MWC schools and not expect a return game. They need to schedule 6 or 7 of those a year, and drop the Seattle U's and Utah Valley's of the world. It's time to kick the excuses to the curb. Get bigger, get better, or get out.
 
EverettGriz said:
Other conferences have turned down games against the bsc programs because the bsc wants home and home. Until we can get our RPI above second to last in the nation, absolutely NO ONE will play games at our place, and no one wants our teams in tournaments. There's absolutely no reason to. I don't blame those teams or conferences a bit.

The bsc has to realize that they need to schedule road games at pac12, WCC, MWC schools and not expect a return game. They need to schedule 6 or 7 of those a year, and drop the Seattle U's and Utah Valley's of the world. It's time to kick the excuses to the curb. Get bigger, get better, or get out.

I can tell you from experience EG that playing a killer non-conference schedule doesn't guarantee you anything, other than your coach getting fired. When Joe O'Brien came to ISU, he had that, "we'll play anybody, anywhere" attitude. He played games at Kansas, Iowa, Arizona State, Washington, Washington State, BYU, Utah, Illinois, the list was endless. But the result was a program that was often broken down by the time conference season rolled around. The Bengals would be on the road most of the pre-season, rolling up losses and by the time they got home, the fan base forgot who they were, and the players had zero confidence. I think the best O'Brien's teams ever finished was 9-7 in conference -- not bad, but not world beaters.

I'm not saying Big Sky schools should not aggressively seek top level competition in the non-conference. But there has to be a happy medium -- you can't just throw your kids out there to get trashed every week, it kills their confidence and your fan base. And it's darn near impossible to get even decent D-1 schools to come to places like Pocatello or Flagstaff. Nobody wants to fly into Phoenix or Salt Lake City, take a three-hour bus ride, play a game, and then ride back to SLC. Unless you're a Power 5 school, you're not chartering to games, so that makes it hard to get Big West or WCC schools to come play you at home. The only D-1 schools Idaho State can get to come to Pocatello, unfortunately, are schools like Utah Valley and Cal Northridge.

Idaho State played a fairly decent non-conference schedule this year -- we played two PAC12 schools (Utah and Wazzu), we played three D-1 teams in the Utah State tournament, including USU and North Dakota State, and we played a few so-called "mid-majors" -- Lamar, Portland, Northridge, etc. Maybe we could have thrown another Power 5 or Mountain West school in there, but even if you play a team like San Jose State or Wyoming and lose, it's not going to do anything positive for your RPI.
 
Well, I agree somewhat, BV. But the fact of the matter is that the BSC non conference SOS is abysmal every year.

This year, we have 3 teams with noncon schedules ranked in the top 180 in the nation (so everyone else is well below the median, many of them much, much, much below): NAU was 8, UM was 25, Weber was 176. Idaho State was nearly dead last in the nation at 345th.

That's just not good enough.
 
EverettGriz said:
Well, I agree somewhat, BV. But the fact of the matter is that the BSC non conference SOS is abysmal every year.

This year, we have 3 teams with noncon schedules ranked in the top 180 in the nation (so everyone else is well below the median, many of them much, much, much below): NAU was 8, UM was 25, Weber was 176. Idaho State was nearly dead last in the nation at 345th.

That's just not good enough.

Every school schedules in what it perceives to be its own best interest. Idaho State's schedule may have been ranked 345th in the nation, but it did what Bill Evans needed it to do: brought in some money (Utah, Wazzu, the Utah State tournament), got them some comparable level competition against several other mid-majors, and kept the team from becoming completely demoralized. The result is a 7-4 conference record and a young team that is on the rise.
 
grizindabox said:
statler & waldorf said:
Football attendance:
UM. 25600
MSU. 19000
EWU. 9600
CP. 8600
ND. 8300
NAU. 7500
ISU. 7300
PSU. 7000
UCD. 5700
SUU. 5600
UNC. 4300
Had to crunch the numbers. Didn't realize how bad BSC attendance has been. Requiring 9/11 of a conference to come up to the standards of The State of Montana ain'ta gonna happen. Time has long since come to look at other options.

You seem to not realize that the standard is 7000-8000 for the BSC.....UM and MSU just exceed the standard.....they are the exception.....not the norm.....and the BSC is fine with that standard....it is not a BSC problem.....it is a UM/MSU problem....

EWU's stadium is being filled beyond capacity so the only thing holding them back is a bigger stadium which is yet to come. Once/if it does regularly getting 15k attendance is very realistic.

Hopefully PSU's successful year brings more butts in the seats. They have the nicest venue in the Big Sky and all they're missing is fan support - though I believe late season attendance saw some big spikes.
 
And I'm okay with that on an occasional basis. If you have a young team and want to ease it in, I'm good with that. I understand that not every year will a team's SOS be 75 or better. But teams in the league schedule so that their NCSOS is in the 300s year in and year out. And it MUST stop.
 
statler & waldorf said:
bgbigdog said:
grizindabox said:
announced his retirement effective in June

How does the determination of a successor happen?

Apparently, after an exhaustive nationwide search, and recommendations from conference ADs and Presidents, the least qualified candidate is offered the job. The BSC needs to start over, not promote the Vice-Fullerton.

:lol: :lol: :clap:

Let's hope the next guy has some fixes for Foolertons messes. E.g., 27 team conferences, remote locations to water down the already under attended basketball tournament and participation ribbons for our sub-300 rpi teams. Maybe a new move-up opportunity?
 
footballdood said:
Hopefully PSU's successful year brings more butts in the seats. They have the nicest venue in the Big Sky and all they're missing is fan support - though I believe late season attendance saw some big spikes.

Compare the two early season home games to the last two home games, and PSU got about 3,000 more butts in seats(not to be confused with fans). This in a metro area of 2,350,000. By way of comparison, if the Missoula metro area(112,684) increased attendance to Griz games by the same proportion, 14.378 more fans(yes, fans)would show up. 14 adults and a eight year old. Ooh Rah! But, a start for a school who was close to dropping football a couple years ago. About on par with basketball, 900(mens), 300(women).
 
statler & waldorf said:
footballdood said:
Hopefully PSU's successful year brings more butts in the seats. They have the nicest venue in the Big Sky and all they're missing is fan support - though I believe late season attendance saw some big spikes.

Compare the two early season home games to the last two home games, and PSU got about 3,000 more butts in seats(not to be confused with fans). This in a metro area of 2,350,000. By way of comparison, if the Missoula metro area(112,684) increased attendance to Griz games by the same proportion, 14.378 more fans(yes, fans)would show up. 14 adults and a eight year old. Ooh Rah! But, a start for a school who was close to dropping football a couple years ago. About on par with basketball, 900(mens), 300(women).
You have to draw a pretty large circle to include 112,684 for Missoula.
 
US Census Bureau stats, but, yes, a big circle. Had to recheck my stats, and Portland increased attendance by an average of about 2,180 per game(including the UNI playoff game). WGS would have seen 104 more fans by comparison. Don't want to underestimate PSUs promotional efforts.
 
So I was hoping to watch (Wayne and Tres) OSU play OU tonight, yes basketball. So telecast is on the Pac-12 network. I was frustrated as we don't get the Pac 12 with Charter. Anyway I was wondering if there was data on the income for the Pac12 from their television contracts ESPN, their own network etc (football, basketball etc). To make a long story short it is a fairly impressive amount. The commissioner of the conference apparently negotiates a lot of this and while I know our conference doesn't have the viewership market of the Pac12 I think it would be nice to find a commissioner that could find a way to use media more effectively to increase revenue for conference members.


SEC: $35.6 million
Big Ten: $33 million
Pac-12: $22.95 million

The above numbers are per member school! The Pac 12 numbers are known as are the SEC roughly but Big Ten numbers are projections. I Know these numbers are out of reach for us but I was just impressed with the numbers and hope for some progressive thinking for our conference. Not as simple as I have presented here and I am sure the variables, negotiations and agreements are complicated but still interesting.
 
There's no additional money at the FBS level, cmt. Just ask a few special people on this board. They'll tell you.
 
EverettGriz said:
There's no additional money at the FBS level, cmt. Just ask a few special people on this board. They'll tell you.


Have you written to your a.d. about your strong desire to move up to the FBS level? What conference would you prefer?
 
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