First Game Discussion

[AZGrizFan]

Depth on defense is the most critical for us, and I just don't see it at many positions. Since our offense is a quick-strike one, our defense will be expected to be on the field quite a bit, which will tax them more than a Bobby Hauck team, which usually controlled the possession clock and kept the defense fresher.

Coach Stitt's offenses are not "quick strike". They are ball-control short passing offenses, for the most part. For instance, last season they averaged over 31 minutes per game of possession.

Now, with Ellis and Jamal on the outside, we may have a few quick strikes, but that hasn't been Coach Stitt's MO over the last few years.

"ball control short passing offense"??? That's the label they put on Don Read's offense, and his average time of drives was about two minutes in length.

DOesn't matter. Quick Strike <> 100 plays per game. Just does not compute. The PLAYS are run quickly, but the DRIVES aren't necessarily quick strike like Pflu's offense was designed.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Az:
You named a boatload of players that were recruited mostly by Hauck right? I understand that Pflu's recruits are just beginning to cycle out and Delaney's will start to move on in a year or two. But do you really believe that there are players from the recruiting classes of the last five years that are at that level of the players you just referred to? Even if there is one or two that might get an NFL shot, the amount of NFL players that Hauck recruited and developed is impressive. You can talk about the new offensive and defensive systems, the scholarship reductions etc. as having an impact on recruiting. That's an alternative viewpoint. But from my point of view, it is difficult to argue that Hauck's teams didn't have more talent and depth. NFL players, conference championships and National Title Game appearances are indicative of something......

 

[AZGrizFan]

Az:
You named a boatload of players that were recruited mostly by Hauck right? I understand that Pflu's recruits are just beginning to cycle out and Delaney's will start to move on in a year or two. But do you really believe that there are players from the recruiting classes of the last five years that are at that level of the players you just referred to? Even if there is one or two that might get an NFL shot, the amount of NFL players that Hauck recruited and developed is impressive. You can talk about the new offensive and defensive systems, the scholarship reductions etc. as having an impact on recruiting. That's an alternative viewpoint. But from my point of view, it is difficult to argue that Hauck's teams didn't have more talent and depth. NFL players, conference championships and National Title Game appearances are indicative of something......

Agreed, for the most part...but with the upheaval and lack of continuity the program has seen since 2010 it's difficult to gage. Hauck was here for 7 years and developed and recruited an average of 1-1.5 NFL players per year. Not sure how many guys it would take to meet someone's arbitrary requirement for "adequate talent and depth", but here's a few names from the Pflu/Delaney era (again, just 5 years and much more unstable environment) that I think we should keep our eye on for potential NFL shots:

Waggenman ('10 - Pflu recruit, developed by Delaney's staff)
Caleb Kidder ('12)
Joe Counts ('12)
Alex Thomas ('14)
Tyrone Holmes ('12)
Ryan McKinley ('13)
Jamaal Jones (Delaney transfer)
Ellis Henderson (Delaney transfer)
Conner Strahm ('13)
Van Ackern (Delaney transfer)
Herbert Gamboa ('12)
Jeremiah Kose (Delaney transfer)

That's a lot of names for 5 years of turmoil. At least in my humble opinion...

 

[br fan]

Depth on defense is the most critical for us, and I just don't see it at many positions. Since our offense is a quick-strike one, our defense will be expected to be on the field quite a bit, which will tax them more than a Bobby Hauck team, which usually controlled the possession clock and kept the defense fresher.

Coach Stitt's offenses are not "quick strike". They are ball-control short passing offenses, for the most part. For instance, last season they averaged over 31 minutes per game of possession.

Now, with Ellis and Jamal on the outside, we may have a few quick strikes, but that hasn't been Coach Stitt's MO over the last few years.

"ball control short passing offense"??? That's the label they put on Don Read's offense, and his average time of drives was about two minutes in length.

DOesn't matter. Quick Strike <> 100 plays per game. Just does not compute. The PLAYS are run quickly, but the DRIVES aren't necessarily quick strike like Pflu's offense was designed.

Stitt wants the Griz drives to average 7 to 9 plays each. For example, Stitt has stated he's watched a lot of game film on NDSU, and they have a great defense. Stitt's theory though, backed by statistics, is if the Griz can average 7-9 plays per drive the offense will make any defense look average at best.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

during the two decades of Griz dominance, the quality which allowed them to beat down teams was their depth. did u ever notice how FCS teams can usually stay with FBS teams for a quarter, or even a half? but in the second half, their relative lack of depth catches up with them, the starters get tired, and the FBS team blows them away.

We used to have FBS type depth at most positions, which allowed us the same advantages against most other FCS teams. But no longer. Alpha and I commented on this very topic on Maroonblood. We just don't have the depth that we used to have. We are now more equal to the teams we used to dominate with our superior depth. Many Griz fans will not admit that our recruiting has slipped in recent years, but it is true. Sure, we still recruit some great players. But the overall quality of each recruiting class is not nearly as strong as it used to be.

NDSU has that depth that we used to enjoy, which gives them an advantage.

Depth on defense is the most critical for us, and I just don't see it at many positions. Since our offense is a quick-strike one, our defense will be expected to be on the field quite a bit, which will tax them more than a Bobby Hauck team, which usually controlled the possession clock and kept the defense fresher.

Please provide some tangible evidence that our recruiting class this year was inferior to past ones. Or any for that matter. Use stars, all-state nods, whatever you want, lets see something other than opinions. I don't buy it for a second. Not to mention we cleaned up in-state this year. Finally, depth fluctuates each season, we are currently down a few schollies, but lb, cb, and wide receiver are as deep as they've been in quite some time. Also, have you even watched Stitt's offense? There's nothing really quick strike about, unless the play is executed really well against the right defense which can result in big plays, but that is true with every offense.

Our recruiting class this year is anywhere from very good to excellent.

And you know this how?? From the number of stars on some site? The proof will be on the field. You sound like the millions who said that Obama would be a great president, before he was elected and we have had to live with his incompetencies.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Az:
You named a boatload of players that were recruited mostly by Hauck right? I understand that Pflu's recruits are just beginning to cycle out and Delaney's will start to move on in a year or two. But do you really believe that there are players from the recruiting classes of the last five years that are at that level of the players you just referred to? Even if there is one or two that might get an NFL shot, the amount of NFL players that Hauck recruited and developed is impressive. You can talk about the new offensive and defensive systems, the scholarship reductions etc. as having an impact on recruiting. That's an alternative viewpoint. But from my point of view, it is difficult to argue that Hauck's teams didn't have more talent and depth. NFL players, conference championships and National Title Game appearances are indicative of something......

Hauck's recruiting classes had a greater number of high-quality players than either Pflu or Delaney. But, they came at a price, as he recruited quite a few kids that were criminals (especially his drop-downs), who were passed over by bigger programs due to character issues. I am sure that we all remember that aspect of Bobby's teams. Playa Rape wanted Bobby to be re-hired. And, if he had been, we would have returned to recruiting those questionable kids.

 

[Alaska Griz]

Az:
You named a boatload of players that were recruited mostly by Hauck right? I understand that Pflu's recruits are just beginning to cycle out and Delaney's will start to move on in a year or two. But do you really believe that there are players from the recruiting classes of the last five years that are at that level of the players you just referred to? Even if there is one or two that might get an NFL shot, the amount of NFL players that Hauck recruited and developed is impressive. You can talk about the new offensive and defensive systems, the scholarship reductions etc. as having an impact on recruiting. That's an alternative viewpoint. But from my point of view, it is difficult to argue that Hauck's teams didn't have more talent and depth. NFL players, conference championships and National Title Game appearances are indicative of something......

Hauck's recruiting classes had a greater number of high-quality players than either Pflu or Delaney. But, they came at a price, as he recruited quite a few kids that were criminals (especially his drop-downs), who were passed over by bigger programs due to character issues. I am sure that we all remember that aspect of Bobby's teams. Playa Rape wanted Bobby to be re-hired. And, if he had been, we would have returned to recruiting those questionable kids.

You just said that we have no basis for saying this year's recruiting class was good (hell, why even recruit good talent if there is no correlation with talent and accolades and what they'll actually do in college). :roll: With that said, you then go on to state matter-of-factly that Hauck's recruits are better than Delaney's. If I'm not mistaken, many of Delaney's recruits are redshirt freshmen, Ellis and Jones have already each had 1,000 yard seasons, may both be All-Americans when all is said and done, and Stitt's first class is mostly made up of Delaney recruits. So have of Delaney's recruits haven't even hit the field yet, which by your admission, means their is no way to evaluate them...Are you really not seeing the huge fallacies in your logic?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Turnovers. It'll come down to turnovers. One of these two teams will take care of the ball, and the other will pee down their legs.

UNDSU has generally avoided mistakes during their two straight championships. But on August 29 it will be different. Yeah, yeah, I know, they've played at Kansas State and Colorado State and Minnesota and Central Michigan and Iowa State :roll: , but this year, the Thunder Buffaloes' luck will run out. They'll cough it up a few times, and Herbert Gamboa will take one to the house.

That's okay, UNDSU will still have a winning season and will lose Klieman. So all is not lost in Grand Forks.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

brewski, how do you get that impression they just won the nat. championship and in most publications i've seen they are preseason no.1

Bohl built up a program that consisted consistently good recruiting classes with all his assistants. Klieman rode those recruiting classes and momentum last year, didn't take much work. But every one of Bohl's staff left NDSU to Wyoming, except Klieman. I simply don't think that he can keep doing the job that Bohl did, especially after they lost big to UNI last year.

Lol at this. Klieman was seen among his peers as being one of the best defensive coordinators in the FCS. I know several players who played for Bohl and had a cousin play there. They hated Bohl's guts and played for Klieman or Vigen. Travis Beck was always quoted with calling his coach Coach Klieman. Klieman was also known as being a great recruiter and produced what appears to be a phenomenal recruiting class this year.

Klieman took over after losing 24 seniors, losing the winningest QB in FCS history, 4/5 offensive lineman and some of the best defensive players to ever for NDSU, and lead them to a 14-1 record and national championship. Bohl also ravaged the cupboard of long time assistants, and Klieman was able to replace them with as good if not better coaches and has retained every one of his assistants for this year. Bad coaches would not have been able to do that.

 

[mtgrizrule]

brewski, how do you get that impression they just won the nat. championship and in most publications i've seen they are preseason no.1

Bohl built up a program that consisted consistently good recruiting classes with all his assistants. Klieman rode those recruiting classes and momentum last year, didn't take much work. But every one of Bohl's staff left NDSU to Wyoming, except Klieman. I simply don't think that he can keep doing the job that Bohl did, especially after they lost big to UNI last year.

Lol at this. Klieman was seen among his peers as being one of the best defensive coordinators in the FCS. I know several players who played for Bohl and had a cousin play there. They hated Bohl's guts and played for Klieman or Vigen. Travis Beck was always quoted with calling his coach Coach Klieman. Klieman was also known as being a great recruiter and produced what appears to be a phenomenal recruiting class this year.

Klieman took over after losing 24 seniors, losing the winningest QB in FCS history, 4/5 offensive lineman and some of the best defensive players to ever for NDSU, and lead them to a 14-1 record and national championship. Bohl also ravaged the cupboard of long time assistants, and Klieman was able to replace them with as good if not better coaches and has retained every one of his assistants for this year. Bad coaches would not have been able to do that.

You do realize, at some point, some NDSU coach will not be able to retain what has been done the last 5 years at NDSU? As we found out, it is a matter of time to be knocked off that pedestal. I hope the GRIZ are the 1st to start knocking NDSU off too. Then again, I'd rather have the GRIZ knock them off in the playoffs if given a choice.

 

[spsyk]

Defense I believe will be up to the challenge, however offense is an unknown.

A new head coach coming up from a conference where good high school teams from Texas, California or Ohio could have competed and even could have won games.

Hoping for the best and all the hype and maroon colored glasses soothsayers predictions come to fruition.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

brewski, how do you get that impression they just won the nat. championship and in most publications i've seen they are preseason no.1

Bohl built up a program that consisted consistently good recruiting classes with all his assistants. Klieman rode those recruiting classes and momentum last year, didn't take much work. But every one of Bohl's staff left NDSU to Wyoming, except Klieman. I simply don't think that he can keep doing the job that Bohl did, especially after they lost big to UNI last year.

Lol at this. Klieman was seen among his peers as being one of the best defensive coordinators in the FCS. I know several players who played for Bohl and had a cousin play there. They hated Bohl's guts and played for Klieman or Vigen. Travis Beck was always quoted with calling his coach Coach Klieman. Klieman was also known as being a great recruiter and produced what appears to be a phenomenal recruiting class this year.

Klieman took over after losing 24 seniors, losing the winningest QB in FCS history, 4/5 offensive lineman and some of the best defensive players to ever for NDSU, and lead them to a 14-1 record and national championship. Bohl also ravaged the cupboard of long time assistants, and Klieman was able to replace them with as good if not better coaches and has retained every one of his assistants for this year. Bad coaches would not have been able to do that.

You do realize, at some point, some NDSU coach will not be able to retain what has been done the last 5 years at NDSU? As we found out, it is a matter of time to be knocked off that pedestal. I hope the GRIZ are the 1st to start knocking NDSU off too. Then again, I'd rather have the GRIZ knock them off in the playoffs if given a choice.

Of course I do. A coach not being able to win 3 in a row does not mean he is not at the level of most FCS coaches, which was stated earlier. I think the Bison will regress at some point. That's inevitable. That won't necessarily mean it will be do to Klieman's coaching. The dude is a excellent coach. Do you think they would have forever remain untouchable if Bohl had stayed? They would have eventually regressed back one year.

 

[blackfoot griz]

It will be interesting to see how Coach Stitt's tendency to go for it on 4th will pan out in this particular game. Could easily go either way...

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

What does the secondary look like for Montana this year?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

It will be interesting to see how Coach Stitt's tendency to go for it on 4th will pan out in this particular game. Could easily go either way...

I agree 100%. It is a high-risk strategy against a great defensive team. We need to convert about 75% of our 4th down possessions in order for it to be a positive. Otherwise, our defense will be on the field way too much, and many times with a short field. That could mean disaster and a huge point production for NDSU.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

What does the secondary look like for Montana this year?

UM has been very weak at the CB position since Trumaine Johnson's senior season. But, we should be very much improved there this season (FINALLY, I might add)! However, we are weak at the safety positive. There are big hopes for one of our young safeties to emerge as a force this season after a very strong showing in spring scrimmages. But you how that goes. Big difference between intra-squad scrimmages and real-time play.

 

[NDSUSR]

It will be interesting to see how Coach Stitt's tendency to go for it on 4th will pan out in this particular game. Could easily go either way...

I agree 100%. It is a high-risk strategy a great defensive team. We need to convert about 75% of our 4th down possessions in order for it to be a positive. Otherwise, our defense will be on the field way too much, and many times with a short field. That could mean disaster and a huge point production for NDSU.

75% may be difficult.

4th down against:

NDSU 2015: Attempts: 32, Conversions: 15, %: 0.469.

Sacred Heart had the best percentage. Attempts: 26, Conversions: 6, %: 0.231.

You guys: Attempts: 28, Conversions: 12, %: 0.429.

 

[get'em_griz]

It will be interesting to see how Coach Stitt's tendency to go for it on 4th will pan out in this particular game. Could easily go either way...

I agree 100%. It is a high-risk strategy a great defensive team. We need to convert about 75% of our 4th down possessions in order for it to be a positive. Otherwise, our defense will be on the field way too much, and many times with a short field. That could mean disaster and a huge point production for NDSU.

75% may be difficult.

4th down against:

NDSU 2015: Attempts: 32, Conversions: 15, %: 0.469.

Sacred Heart had the best percentage. Attempts: 26, Conversions: 6, %: 0.231.

You guys: Attempts: 28, Conversions: 12, %: 0.429.

huh... so far the only stats that I can find for 4th down conversions in 2015 is this:

Attempts: 0, Conversions: 0, %: 0.000.

 

[NDSUSR]

Fine.... Feb 6th 2014 to January 10th 2015.

I forgot you guys didnt have any stats in January 2015.

 

[Yukon]

What does the secondary look like for Montana this year?

UM has been very weak at the CB position since Trumaine Johnson's senior season. But, we should be very much improved there this season (FINALLY, I might add)! However, we are weak at the safety positive. There are big hopes for one of our young safeties to emerge as a force this season after a very strong showing in spring scrimmages. But you how that goes. Big difference between intra-squad scrimmages and real-time play.

I think Yaman Sanders will get the start at safety.