fickle, heartless fans?

[AZGrizFan]

It's interesting to see people bitch about the Griz having no "signature wins". They scheduled (AND BEAT) LMU (twice), Fresno State, Boise State and Oregon (the same Oregon that SWEPT USC AND UCLA this year)and were up by 1 with 30 seconds to play against the then-11th ranked Huskies. That's 5-1 against "non-BSC" teams from major or mid-major conferences.

Then again, they lost games they shouldn't have lost, like just about every other team in America.

It all depends on which team shows up Tuesday & Wednesday.

 

[Hammer]

It's interesting to see people bitch about the Griz having no "signature wins". They scheduled (AND BEAT) LMU (twice), Fresno State, Boise State and Oregon (the same Oregon that SWEPT USC AND UCLA this year)and were up by 1 with 30 seconds to play against the then-11th ranked Huskies. That's 5-1 against "non-BSC" teams from major or mid-major conferences.

Then again, they lost games they shouldn't have lost, like just about every other team in America.

It all depends on which team shows up Tuesday & Wednesday.

you would think that team would never get swept by the cats. Am I right?

 

[1986cat]

Ouch 73-56, 2:16 left. Thats not going to really your seeding.

The great thing about Gonzaga is that we will dance, win or lose. Will the Griz get an at large bid, or will that loss to Denver hurt your bid?

 

[1986cat]

No, LAGriz, it isn't an opinion. It is a fact. RPI and SOS are statistics. You haven't provided any. I'm backing up what I say with actual, tangible facts. When you get scared, you run off and say "it's all a matter of opinion."

That isn't an argument. It makes you look incompetent.

 

[1986cat]

PSST.........by the way, Zags are down to St Marys 50-45 with 9 minutes left

We're the team that's going to the NCAA tournament. You must be the other guys?

 

[GrizLA]

No, LAGriz, it isn't an opinion. It is a fact. RPI and SOS are statistics. You haven't provided any. I'm backing up what I say with actual, tangible facts. When you get scared, you run off and say "it's all a matter of opinion."

That isn't an argument. It makes you look incompetent.

here is a fact, Gonzaga was just blown out of their conference tourney....I didn't run away from you...i ran to watch a very average Gonzaga team get beat by a "bubble team" and beat solidly.......ooops..my opinion has been ratified by...Gonzaga...

 

[GrizLA]

PSST.........by the way, Zags are down to St Marys 50-45 with 9 minutes left

We're the team that's going to the NCAA tournament. You must be the other guys?

We are the team that sports one of the best football teams of our class and a very competitive basket ball team....you are the one that comes here because you know you have, well, to be nice, a slightly above average bball team that will indeed go the tourney...but not a championship....

 

[1986cat]

Any coach would be happy to have 20 wins. I grant you that fact. And of those 100+ coaches with 20 wins, 35 of them will not be dancing. That's the point. It doesn't separate you from anybody. You need quality wins over quality programs. Montana, for example, has 18 wins. Their RPI is 124. Their SOS is 237. Now, tell me, what about that profile, as close as you are to 20 wins, separates you from anybody else?

 

[1986cat]

You just can't win this won, LAGriz, until you actually support your assertions.

"A very competitive basketball team." - opinion, not supported by any fact.

"best football team of our class." - opinion, but widely known to be absolutely true.

What is known to be true about U of M basketball that is so great?

 

[1986cat]

No, LAGriz, it isn't an opinion. It is a fact. RPI and SOS are statistics. You haven't provided any. I'm backing up what I say with actual, tangible facts. When you get scared, you run off and say "it's all a matter of opinion."

That isn't an argument. It makes you look incompetent.

here is a fact, Gonzaga was just blown out of their conference tourney....I didn't run away from you...i ran to watch a very average Gonzaga team get beat by a "bubble team" and beat solidly.......ooops..my opinion has been ratified by...Gonzaga...

We were just blown away. True. There are no excuses. Separating us from every team in the Big Sky is the fact that we will be dancing, regardless. Every team in the Big Sky would have to win its conference tourney to dance. That is a fact.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Montana is not in the same league as the Zags.

But the reality is that they ARE on par with (if not better) than the remainder of the teams in the WCC.

After watching the complete beating the Zags just suffered against a team that probably wasn't going to end up in the tournament, I'm not sure the Zags are in the same league as Weber this year. :lol:

They had a lot of trouble stopping St. Mary's from hitting the 3s... If that is their weakness this year, they are really in trouble in the tournament. If they draw a good 3 point shooting team in the tourney, it's going to another early exit in the tournament for the Zags again.

We were just blown away. True. There are no excuses. Separating us from every team in the Big Sky is the fact that we will be dancing, regardless. Every team in the Big Sky would have to win its conference tourney to dance. That is a fact.

Do you want another fact? Here's one: Gonzaga is incredibly overrated (as they are damn near every year) and don't deserve anything better than a 9 seed in the tournament. Gonzaga will do nothing of note in the tournament again. Their RPI going into the St. Mary's beating was #34. Their SOS was #119. Why were they #14 in the ESPN poll with that RPI and SOS? They just got Blown Out at home by the #43 RPI team who had a #131 SOS. That team that blew them out most likely wouldn't have been dancing (according to the experts, and judging by how they were left out with similar record and ranking last year).

The only reason the WCC is a 2 bid conference this year is because the over rated Zags got their asses handed to them by a decent bubble team that probably wouldn't have made it into the tournament. Had the Zags won that game, the WCC would be a one bid conference just like the Big Sky. The only difference is the Big Sky team would've earned whatever seed they got, and he Zags would've been handed a #4 or #5 seed that they didn't deserve

 

[ilovethecats]

We were just blown away. True. There are no excuses. Separating us from every team in the Big Sky is the fact that we will be dancing, regardless. Every team in the Big Sky would have to win its conference tourney to dance. That is a fact.

i don't know why you keep bringing that up like it's such an accomplishment. the big sky conference will never get more than one team in. ever. and for the most part, the wcc never does either. it's normally the zags and that is it. the last couple years st marys has had a pretty good team. but it seems to me that if the zags are truly "elite" like some fans like to think, you wouldn't care about making the dance. all conferences are not equal. there is a reason why teams like kansas, kentucky, texas, syracuse, etc. never brag about making the tourney. that is expected. making the dance as a big sky team is an accomplishment. it's what we strive to do because we are a tiny conference and we know that we'll likely be one and done. but it is what it is. i can name another 20 conferences with teams that have the same aspirations. and that won't change anytime soon. look how hard it is to improve as a conference. the zags are tough every year, yet the wcc is still a joke. seems to me if the zags really want to be looked at as elite they need to start winning more than 2 games in the tourney. they have never been past the sweet 16! elite teams don't do that. if duke or kansas fail to make the sweet 16 it's a huge letdown. so please stop this almighty crap when it comes to the zags. it's getting old fast. once again, you guys will win one or two games (although 2 out of the last 3 years you couldn't even win one), and be done. elite teams don't need to go to message boards of small mid-major conferences talking about how good they are. yes the zags will be in the tourney. and next year too. and the next year. and the next year. and the next year. and the next year. and the....you get the idea. eventually you need to raise the expectations. i'll give it to you that they'll make the dance more than the cats or the griz, or any other team in this league. however...i'm not so sure that is something to brag about. :lol:

 

[1986cat]

We were just blown away. True. There are no excuses. Separating us from every team in the Big Sky is the fact that we will be dancing, regardless. Every team in the Big Sky would have to win its conference tourney to dance. That is a fact.

Do you want another fact? Here's one: Gonzaga will do nothing of note in the tournament again. They are overrated (as they are damn near every year) and don't deserve anything better than a 9 seed in the tournament. Their RPI going into the St. Mary's beating was #34. Their SOS was #119. Why were they #14 in the ESPN poll with that RPI and SOS? They just got Blown Out at home by the #43 RPI team who had a #131 SOS. That team that blew them out most likely wouldn't have been dancing (according to the experts, and judging by how they were left out with similar record and ranking last year).

The only reason the WCC is a 2 bid conference this year is because the over rated Zags got their asses handed to them by a decent bubble team that probably wouldn't have made it into the tournament. Had the Zags won that game, the WCC would be a one bid conference just like the Big Sky. The only difference is the Big Sky team would've earned whatever seed they got, and he Zags would've been handed a #4 or #5 seed that they didn't deserve

We deserve the rankings we get because of our non-conference schedule. Last year, we earned a 4 seed and lost in the sweet 16 to North Carolina, just like every other team along the way. Not too bad a season.

Funny, if the Zags make the Sweet 16, it isn't good enough, but when the BSC team makes the tourney, it is a stellar accomplishment? That's as logically inconsistent as it is ridiculous.

 

[ilovethecats]

Funny, if the Zags make the Sweet 16, it isn't good enough, but when the BSC team makes the tourney, it is a stellar accomplishment? That's as logically inconsistent as it is ridiculous.

no, that is EXACTLY how it works. all teams are not even close to equal. do you honestly believe it's the same accomplishment when duke, kentucky, kansas, 'cuse, etc make the dance as it is for wofford, siena, or the big sky champ? it's not. and to suggest otherwise leads me to believe that you really don't understand college hoops. if you want to be looked at like an elite program like you have suggested, than it comes with elite expectations. there is nothing ridiculous about thinking otherwise. frankly, it's a little ridiculous that you don't see that...

 

[Potomac Griz]

We deserve the rankings we get because of our non-conference schedule. Last year, we earned a 4 seed and lost in the sweet 16 to North Carolina, just like every other team along the way. Not too bad a season.

You guys came dangerously close to not getting out of the 2nd round last year.. WKU falling asleep at the wheel in the last few seconds of the game probably saved you guys from taking another early exit in the tournament. I'm pretty sure we went over all the Zag chokes in a previous thread...

Funny, if the Zags make the Sweet 16, it isn't good enough, but when the BSC team makes the tourney, it is a stellar accomplishment? That's as logically inconsistent as it is ridiculous.

No one here is claiming that the Griz, or any other Big Sky team is an "elite" team, like you are about the Zags. So the above statement you made is kind of ridiculous

 

[1986cat]

Funny, if the Zags make the Sweet 16, it isn't good enough, but when the BSC team makes the tourney, it is a stellar accomplishment? That's as logically inconsistent as it is ridiculous.

no, that is EXACTLY how it works. all teams are not even close to equal. do you honestly believe it's the same accomplishment when duke, kentucky, kansas, 'cuse, etc make the dance as it is for wofford, siena, or the big sky champ? it's not. and to suggest otherwise leads me to believe that you really don't understand college hoops. if you want to be looked at like an elite program like you have suggested, than it comes with elite expectations. there is nothing ridiculous about thinking otherwise. frankly, it's a little ridiculous that you don't see that...

In the context of what LAGriz said, yes it is ridiculous. He is such a Griz homer he suggests "parity" exists between the Griz and Gonzaga. That is the crux of my argument.

 

[ilovethecats]

In the context of what LAGriz said, yes it is ridiculous. He is such a Griz homer he suggests "parity" exists between the Griz and Gonzaga. That is the crux of my argument.

well i understand that, and to be honest, you're both right. obviously around the country the zags are a more well-known name than the griz. there is no denying that. i also agree that the zags have built a great grogram. but their is definitely parity in college hoops, even between the zags and a team like the griz. if there wasn't, then the zags would have never lost in the first round of the tourney twice in a row a couple years ago.

 

[1986cat]

In the context of what LAGriz said, yes it is ridiculous. He is such a Griz homer he suggests "parity" exists between the Griz and Gonzaga. That is the crux of my argument.

well i understand that, and to be honest, you're both right. obviously around the country the zags are a more well-known name than the griz. there is no denying that. i also agree that the zags have built a great grogram. but their is definitely parity in college hoops, even between the zags and a team like the griz. if there wasn't, then the zags would have never lost in the first round of the tourney twice in a row a couple years ago.

My counter is that there is parity in college basketball, but that the Griz are not there. You have to actually make the tournament to upset teams in the first and second round.

 

[LillardMVP]

1986Cat ELITE, Elite, elite, elitE 81-62 Ouch! ELite Gonzaga is not :shock:

 

[GrizLA]

You just can't win this won, LAGriz, until you actually support your assertions.

"A very competitive basketball team." - opinion, not supported by any fact.

"best football team of our class." - opinion, but widely known to be absolutely true.

What is known to be true about U of M basketball that is so great?

Gonzaga is a good program, granted but they lost their conference tourney and their conference is about par with the BSC....they are not as good as you say they are, in fact, the past weeks are looking pretty weak, like the rest of their conference. So, face it, all you have is an opinion and that of others...Gonzaga has had a nice run...but it appears over...my point is and has been since you decided to put your own spin on it, is the Griz have greatly improved season by season and now, in spite of what you say, boast a 20 win season, and with the level of talent coming in, will be even better next year....my opinion...and it as valid as yours or the guys who create the stats....20 wins is better than good. If you don't think so, then you and the Alpha guy need to talk....