grizatwork said:
Missed very few hoops games in the late 80s/early 90s - men's or ladies. Student section was big, loud, and courtside. Bring it back.
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Fan Support and Attendance
- Thread starter mtgrizrule
- Start date
Missed very few hoops games in the late 80s/early 90s - men's or ladies. Student section was big, loud, and courtside. Bring it back.
Okay, then one shitty fan.
I can understand how out-of-towners don't come for Thurs. night games and would rarely come for Sat. games. Not really worth it unless there's another reason to be in Missoula.
What were the hoops attendance figures in the "old" days? What was the split between student attendance and others? I assume the university enrollment is much bigger now than in the old days.
I agree that the men's Cat game crowd/atmosphere could and should have been better, and that the number of fouls negatively impacted the atmosphere, but I would go to the exact same game every time I got the opportunity. Atmosphere/crowd helps, but for me, 90% of why I go is because of the teams on the court and the game/competition. The quality of popcorn is not important to me. If shitty fans are going to not attend because of the quality of the refs, the opponents and the conference, and the tourney format, then perhaps they should continue to do something else. Why waste any time, energy or money on trying to make them happy.
I can understand how out-of-towners don't come for Thurs. night games and would rarely come for Sat. games. Not really worth it unless there's another reason to be in Missoula.
What were the hoops attendance figures in the "old" days? What was the split between student attendance and others? I assume the university enrollment is much bigger now than in the old days.
I agree that the men's Cat game crowd/atmosphere could and should have been better, and that the number of fouls negatively impacted the atmosphere, but I would go to the exact same game every time I got the opportunity. Atmosphere/crowd helps, but for me, 90% of why I go is because of the teams on the court and the game/competition. The quality of popcorn is not important to me. If shitty fans are going to not attend because of the quality of the refs, the opponents and the conference, and the tourney format, then perhaps they should continue to do something else. Why waste any time, energy or money on trying to make them happy.
PlayerRep said:
Don't be so hard on yourself. You're an okay fan.
Why waste time, energy and money trying to make fans happy? Is that really your question??
UMGriz75
Well-known member
Among fans, of course, who is going to book "early" for a full six days and likely 7-8 days including overnight and travel days when they have no idea if their team is even going to make it. As for the teams themselves, well, I guess you'd be optimistic and book the whole week, but then cancellation fees are going to chew up dollars. And Reno gets the revenues.PlayerRep said:
Adams Center rents to the Athletic Department for about $5,000-10,000 for all services, last I checked. They take a % fee for running the ticket office and managing ticket sales; somewhere between 3-6%. University Dining Services take the entire take from concessions.
For a basketball game such as against MSU, the gross ticket sales is about $104,000 and concessions usually gets something close to that (assuming the weighted average ticket price is about $16.00).
So, the gross from a basketball game is about $208,000, minus expenses and UM sticky fingers, the net to the program is about $94,000. That's not bad, but that was the highest turnout of the year. I understand that the Big Sky Conference gets the net of playoff games, and redistributes it to conference schools, but that is still
$114,000 that the University does not get for hosting at least one game.
That's consistent with the overall program figures of UM Men's Basketball season revenue $1,306,552 and expenses of $1,532,926. Sixteen total games, the average revenue is $81,659. But, the concessions for the most part aren't counted in that revenue. So, the U skims about $1.3 million additional revenue simply because it is collected by Food Service. The "expenses" are the cost of hosting the sixteen games, and travel and lodging.
That's lost university revenue, plus added expense of lodging and travel. It's lose-lose for the teams, the University and the students.
Three main things wrong for our basketball program: Big. Sky. Conference.
Ironically, what has been great for our football team has been a disaster for our basketball program.
Traditional rivalries: In football we have two, the Cats and Eastern Washington, plus generally a wild-card that is good for a year (Northern Arizona or Portland State), plus one non-conference game that is of interest--a North Dakota State, Washington, et. al. So that's four interesting games out of twelve. Basketball? Two biggies, the Cats and Weber, but in a 16-game conference schedule, that's not very much to get your stomach churning. We've lost Nevada and Boise State, not to mention the old rivalries from the Skyline Conference days--Wyoming, Utah State, Colorado State.
Playoffs: In the FCS, where Montana is an acknowledged power, the playoffs are exciting, something to look keenly forward to. Basketball? Most likely a desultory conference playoff in a second rate locale, before a merciless beating at the hands of a one or two seed at the Big Dance, or a one-and done in the NIT. In basketball, we're coming out of a second-rate conference to play against the best in the country, not against other second-rate FCS teams.
Television: In the digital age, if you're not on TV, you don't exist. Our football team gets on TV, during the playoffs, or against a major non-conference foe like North Dakota State. We've seen in our recruiting this year the impact of being on national TV. But basketball? A tree falling in the forest. Not even ESPN2 on weeknight. Root Sports hardly counts; Big Sky TV is a major joke.
It's undeniable that the best situation for both our basketball programs would have been to move up the WAC when that was possible, which would have put us in the Mountain West now. But since that wasn't perceived to be the best for our football program, football prevailed. And now our basketball program is stuck in a truck-stop conference, with no TV, and very little national exposure. Our only hope is a recruiter like DeCuire, and a win at the Big Dance, however little the Big Sky prepares you for that possibility.
Ironically, what has been great for our football team has been a disaster for our basketball program.
Traditional rivalries: In football we have two, the Cats and Eastern Washington, plus generally a wild-card that is good for a year (Northern Arizona or Portland State), plus one non-conference game that is of interest--a North Dakota State, Washington, et. al. So that's four interesting games out of twelve. Basketball? Two biggies, the Cats and Weber, but in a 16-game conference schedule, that's not very much to get your stomach churning. We've lost Nevada and Boise State, not to mention the old rivalries from the Skyline Conference days--Wyoming, Utah State, Colorado State.
Playoffs: In the FCS, where Montana is an acknowledged power, the playoffs are exciting, something to look keenly forward to. Basketball? Most likely a desultory conference playoff in a second rate locale, before a merciless beating at the hands of a one or two seed at the Big Dance, or a one-and done in the NIT. In basketball, we're coming out of a second-rate conference to play against the best in the country, not against other second-rate FCS teams.
Television: In the digital age, if you're not on TV, you don't exist. Our football team gets on TV, during the playoffs, or against a major non-conference foe like North Dakota State. We've seen in our recruiting this year the impact of being on national TV. But basketball? A tree falling in the forest. Not even ESPN2 on weeknight. Root Sports hardly counts; Big Sky TV is a major joke.
It's undeniable that the best situation for both our basketball programs would have been to move up the WAC when that was possible, which would have put us in the Mountain West now. But since that wasn't perceived to be the best for our football program, football prevailed. And now our basketball program is stuck in a truck-stop conference, with no TV, and very little national exposure. Our only hope is a recruiter like DeCuire, and a win at the Big Dance, however little the Big Sky prepares you for that possibility.
Lots of factors. Schedule not that interesting, long winter break for students, conference isn't what it once was, hundreds of games competing on TV, growth of participation in alternative sports (especially hockey), huge appeal of Griz football and the often extended playoff season and 7PM not a great tip off time in my opinion (too early).
I rarely miss a home game I can make but went to SUU last week and left at half and then skipped NAU entirely after seeing how they got pummeled by MSU. That wouldn't have happened were the Griz playing Idaho, Boise, MSU, Reno in the old BSC as those type of blowouts wouldn't have occurred. I'm a fan of the game on the court but not a huge blowout. Also just by name alone "Boise" "Reno" and "Idaho" sound better (and usually are) than "Portland State", "Sacramento State", "Northern Colorado" and "Southern Utah".
Subconsciously, I think when fans read about or watched the big road game vs. Weber where 8,000 (or Idaho 5,000? guessing, Reno 5,000? guessing, MSU sold out) showed up it made it more important for those fans to show up when those teams came to town. When you see NAU, SUU, Portland and Sac State "pack" 1,000 into their gyms I think it directly affects attendance at home Griz games.
Also (for PR's benefit!) those Cub games back in the late '70s brought 2,000 to 3,000 fans that otherwise wouldn't have come to watch the Griz. Those Cubs were exciting! And played the game!
I rarely miss a home game I can make but went to SUU last week and left at half and then skipped NAU entirely after seeing how they got pummeled by MSU. That wouldn't have happened were the Griz playing Idaho, Boise, MSU, Reno in the old BSC as those type of blowouts wouldn't have occurred. I'm a fan of the game on the court but not a huge blowout. Also just by name alone "Boise" "Reno" and "Idaho" sound better (and usually are) than "Portland State", "Sacramento State", "Northern Colorado" and "Southern Utah".
Subconsciously, I think when fans read about or watched the big road game vs. Weber where 8,000 (or Idaho 5,000? guessing, Reno 5,000? guessing, MSU sold out) showed up it made it more important for those fans to show up when those teams came to town. When you see NAU, SUU, Portland and Sac State "pack" 1,000 into their gyms I think it directly affects attendance at home Griz games.
Also (for PR's benefit!) those Cub games back in the late '70s brought 2,000 to 3,000 fans that otherwise wouldn't have come to watch the Griz. Those Cubs were exciting! And played the game!
MissoulaMarinerFan
Well-known member
Wait - so me being realistic and honest about what MIGHT be going on with attendance makes me a bad fan? Really?
UMGriz75
Well-known member
I always enjoyed the Cubs games, and they were a terrific development tool. Instead of athletic young men spending most of the season on the bench as freshmen, they all got to play, and a lot more of them. A great place to pick up walk-on talent that had potential to turn into varsity quality. And they wanted to play. And they all had friends that wanted to see them play. It was also a great development tool for the assistant coach(s). I was sorry to see that system go.Mousegriz said:
UMGriz75
Well-known member
That's my point, Basketball is competing with a lot of activities, which is large part why the active audience is getting older and older, and that's not going to change directions. Basketball itself needs to change, somehow, to make it worth the drive, driving on icy roads, parking in the snow, to watch an hour of free throws, eating concession food and drinking some pop. Football at UM drew smaller crowds in the 1970s than Basketball now, before the Big Change. And it's not football per se, nearly half the Big Sky conference has football attendance comparable to a good day for UM Basketball. But, those football programs that are attracting fans to precisely what every single commentator points out at UM "The Game Day Experience."Mousegriz said:
At UM, it has changed dramatically from what it was; Basketball hasn't.
After Heathcote turned everything around through a larger-than-life personality -- installing all new everything -- and bringing the "Fast Break" to the Field House, and featuring enough Montana talent that already had a local or regional following from High School and locals wanted to see them --Selvig, DeMers, Rocheleau, Peck, Lyman, Reich -- it's been a long downhill.
UMGriz75 said:
In my day it was all walk ons. Scholarship redshirt freshman couldn't play on the Cubs or would burn their redshirt. Think that changed the next year( they cold play and not burn the RS) but then the whole program ended probably about 1981 or 1982. Great times playing pregame for the Griz and watching the place fill to almost capacity by halftime of our game.
Griz/Cat.....they opened the doors during our warm ups and the Zoo was full in less than 10 minutes more than two hours before the "real" game. Fans were running to their seats faster than we were warming up! Kittens went down hard to the Cubs that day and Mousegriz dropped a cool 29 on them. Fat Dad growled out my name a few times and my fraternity bros in the Zoo were going wild!
UMGriz75
Well-known member
That's a neat story. Too, there had to be a synergistic effect; these Cubs got their friends to come, mostly freshmen, and developed in their first year of school the "habit" and tradition of going to the Basketball games that remained throughout their college years.Mousegriz said:
AZGrizFan said:
Look, I've said repeatedly that I'd go watch a UM team compete in Tidliwinks if such a competition existed.
But I'm not the type of fan UM BB needs to attract. And if you believe for a moment that the issues I mentioned are not a concern with the average fan, you've lost your ever loving mind. Talk to anyone who used to go to games but now goes to very few. I promise you they will tell you it's because of the reasons I mentioned.
Semester system was the end for student participation. In the mid 80s up through 92 it was batshit crazy, wait outside for an hour to rush to the "Zoo". The endless winter break and a dose of a few humdrum years and coaches, plus taking out the Zoo killed it. I don't know why it didn't improve more during LK and Tinks tenure, they had the success for sure. Not enough of today's students are bringing the energy. Although they do have those giant heads. We never had those.
The conference in which the Griz play has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I go to basketball games. We got to four to six games each year, all conference games. We enjoy whatever team we happen to see. This year's team is a particularly fun team to watch. I know you, EG, hate the fact the Griz are playing in the Big Sky, but that IS the reality of it all, and I will fully enjoy each and every game. I'll be honest, I like it lots more when the Griz win than when they lose, so, if they were in a conference (whatever it might be -- and God knows, I've no idea in what other conference the Griz might be) where they were NOT winning, I might not like going to the games as much. Just my opinion.EverettGriz said:
EG has a good point though. Who gives a shit if we beat one of our sub 300 rpi conference foes? It prepares
The Griz for nothing. There are only a handful of teams that "bring it". I like the preseason home games, just for novelty, and Weber (not coming), EWU and the Cats (because it's funny that they suck). But really. Wouldnt it mean more if there was some competency in our league?
The Griz for nothing. There are only a handful of teams that "bring it". I like the preseason home games, just for novelty, and Weber (not coming), EWU and the Cats (because it's funny that they suck). But really. Wouldnt it mean more if there was some competency in our league?
rocklobster
Well-known member
I love going to the games with my 9 year old! We go all the time! Coach DeCuire is carrying on a great tradition. So much talent, and so little people to see it. The university needs to turn it into an event every week. Tail gates, family nights, wharever...it all needs to be promoted better. If you get people in once, they'll come back for the product. I don't blame TD for being passed! These student/athletes are great representatives for the university, but don't get near the support of the football players! Too bad!
68, as I said, I LOVE Griz hoops and would also go regardless. But you and I are not the problem. The problem is the 4,000 others who used to regularly go to Griz games and no longer do. I challenge you: ask a few of them why they no longer go. I can assure you that my list of reasons will be mentioned by nearly all. Quality of opponent and meaningful games matter. Not EVERYONE bleeds maroon, as much as we'd like to think it was so.
And with the officiating Saturday, if I were new to BSC basketball and had to suffer through that debacle, I'd NEVER go back.
And with the officiating Saturday, if I were new to BSC basketball and had to suffer through that debacle, I'd NEVER go back.
Yes, it probably would mean more if the BSC had more competency. BUT, there's not a damned thing that a one of us can do to make that happen. So, why not enjoy what we have and quit bitching about what we don't have, and have no control over changing?????????Buttegrizzle said:
