Engstrom's Idea to Help Enrollment

[SoldierGriz]

If you give a shit about the U, get the fvck on board and help out in whatever way you can. Sure its easier to bitch about RE and cheer when he screws up but what, exactly, does that get you?

Go Griz!

As I was reading the article about current initiatives, I asked myself how I could help.

I understand the RE thing, I really do. But, I also think many of the ideas they are implementing are solid. I will do my part to talk to HS kids about The U of M whenever I get a chance.

 

[UMGriz75]

You really don't know much about the U of M do you 75 when it comes to fine arts. Ceramics is a huge deal.

My youngest got his degree in fine arts in 2010. I am likely more familiar than you. To me, the outline does what it always does for UM: describes odd things without qualification, just like the TV ads. Getting your feathers up over "Ceramics" and "Welding" when trying to attract 17 year olds to a research University is part of what is "wrong with the picture."

Indeed, you'd have to talk to Engstrom about "Ceramics." It is he who targeted it for some of the biggest cuts. The School of Art is down from 300 to 170 undergraduates since 2009 ... of course, the hemorrhaging having occurred under the auspices of ... Royce Engstrom. You can call him up and tell him it's a "Huge Deal."

Here's his number: 243-2311.

 

[UMGriz75]

I understand the RE thing, I really do. But, I also think many of the ideas they are implementing are solid. I will do my part to talk to HS kids about The U of M whenever I get a chance.

I liked most of the approach. The problem I have with it is that it reads just like prior press releases each time they "roll out" some huge new initiative. This is about the fourth iteration of the same thing and in particular, the promise that they "expect to see results next Fall Semester." How many times, honestly, can this regime keep saying the same thing over and over?

Which part of what they say they are doing makes sense? Well, most of it. Wasn't that obvious when enrollment began to plummet seven years ago? The very fact that they are saying some of these things raises the question as to ... did they just figure this stuff out?

It's not that the ideas might not work out, it's the fact that virtually everything they are doing are well-known, well-tested college recruiting efforts. It is akin to seeing the Chemistry Department claiming to have discovered that Be is an element and that they intend to investigate it "very carefully." I mean, well, good for them. But if you think about it, it isn't reassuring as to the capabilities of that group in Main Hall to launch, via huge press release, a campaign seven years into a decline, announcing lavish attention to concepts that peer schools have been doing for decades and they are acting like it is "like wow, new thinking!"

It isn't.

 

[Grisly Fan]

75: You got a problem with Beryllium? BeO it sinters to a very stable ceramic which RE would no doubt value in the UM's pottery curriculum. Don't be dissing on no Be!

 

[UMGriz75]

75: You got a problem with Beryllium? BeO it sinters to a very stable ceramic which RE would no doubt value in the UM's pottery curriculum. Don't be dissing on no Be!

I have never liked Beryllium. It just sits there. Even when it oxidizes. No personality. No character. Even when it coyly sinters.

It does little for the periodic table except take up space, and allows the song to work.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM-wSKFBpo[/youtube]

 

[GrizLA]

A couple of years ago, UM overhauled its recruitment communication strategies, and the students who enroll in the fall 2016 will be the first who have been through an entire round of the revamped effort, from snazzy print brochures touting ceramics and welding to targeted emails written to inform students about financial aid ...

Oh Lord, please tell me that is not true ..... :yikes:

Well, at least they are "snazzy!"

The University of Montana is world renown for ceramics and innovation in that field. I think Rudy Audio and his wife are featured in more museums and galleries in the world than you might think. Ceramics at UM began to earn international recognition when Audio and his staff and students like Jay Rummel put stuff out that was groundbreaking. This is what a GOOD school does....There is big money in the arts and Montana is foolish to not take full advantage as the grads are great messengers. In fact, I would say, the Fine Arts at Montana has the potential to bring a lot of creative people and students to Missoula. Maybe, even more than football.

 

[UMGriz75]

For people like Jay Rummel and Rudy Autio, it probably works. For the target audience, 17-year old kids, they most likely associate "ceramics" with ash trays. Ash Tray University. To me, that is symptomatic of not understanding who they are trying to recruit in the first place. I am sure Coach Stitt, recruiting players, always mentions "Ceramics" at the U.

The fact is, during Engstrom's reign, the department took one of the biggest hits on campus. Now, there is something to point to.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

A couple of years ago, UM overhauled its recruitment communication strategies, and the students who enroll in the fall 2016 will be the first who have been through an entire round of the revamped effort, from snazzy print brochures touting ceramics and welding to targeted emails written to inform students about financial aid ...

Oh Lord, please tell me that is not true ..... :yikes:

Well, at least they are "snazzy!"

The University of Montana is world renown for ceramics and innovation in that field. I think Rudy Audio and his wife are featured in more museums and galleries in the world than you might think. Ceramics at UM began to earn international recognition when Audio and his staff and students like Jay Rummel put stuff out that was groundbreaking. This is what a GOOD school does....There is big money in the arts and Montana is foolish to not take full advantage as the grads are great messengers. In fact, I would say, the Fine Arts at Montana has the potential to bring a lot of creative people and students to Missoula. Maybe, even more than football.

I think the kids that are really truley serious about ceramics probably arent the demographic we need to be recruiting. Those kids know the good arts schools to go to. What we should be targeting is the demographic that is unsure of what they want (like many 17 yr olds are after high school) and showing those kids that the UofM has something for you. Im sure we have no problem bringing in the 10 real good artists from throughout the pacific northwest year in and year out.

 

[EverettGriz]

BGF, how do you market to a 17 year old who has no idea what they want to do or where they want to go? LA is right. You market to your strengths. Now if ALL you market is ceramics, I'd agree there is an issue. But I'd argue quite the opposite, that some of UM's marketing materials haven't been specific enough. It's very hard to market to a kid who has no plan. We need to be getting those kids who do, and tell THEM how strong is in their field.

 

[SoldierGriz]

BGF, how do you market to a 17 year old who has no idea what they want to do or where they want to go? LA is right. You market to your strengths. Now if ALL you market is ceramics, I'd agree there is an issue. But I'd argue quite the opposite, that some of UM's marketing materials haven't been specific enough. It's very hard to market to a kid who has no plan. We need to be getting those kids who do, and tell THEM how strong is in their field.

My kid gets about 15 mailings a day from schools all over the country...some of them are narrowly focused and specifically targeting his academic strengths and future goals. Others are broadly focused on the experience a campus might offer him. Some schools send him both...and they send them often. The schools that send both are "winning" in my house.

I think UM must do both...target kids who have identified their specific academic wants/needs, and broadly appeal to the Montana experience that awaits them. Send both....a day apart...start with specific offerings...then bring out the Big Sky, Mountains, rivers/lakes etc.

I cannot believe the access universities have to high school kids...they know just about every conceivable way to contact my kid...

 

[EverettGriz]

BGF, how do you market to a 17 year old who has no idea what they want to do or where they want to go? LA is right. You market to your strengths. Now if ALL you market is ceramics, I'd agree there is an issue. But I'd argue quite the opposite, that some of UM's marketing materials haven't been specific enough. It's very hard to market to a kid who has no plan. We need to be getting those kids who do, and tell THEM how strong is in their field.

My kid gets about 15 mailings a day from schools all over the country...some of them are narrowly focused and specifically targeting his academic strengths and future goals. Others are broadly focused on the experience a campus might offer him. Some schools send him both...and they send them often. The schools that send both are "winning" in my house.

I think UM must do both...target kids who have identified their specific academic wants/needs, and broadly appeal to the Montana experience that awaits them. Send both....a day apart...start with specific offerings...then bring out the Big Sky, Mountains, rivers/lakes etc.

I cannot believe the access universities have to high school kids...they know just about every conceivable way to contact my kid...

Agreed.

 

[PlayerRep]

BGF, how do you market to a 17 year old who has no idea what they want to do or where they want to go? LA is right. You market to your strengths. Now if ALL you market is ceramics, I'd agree there is an issue. But I'd argue quite the opposite, that some of UM's marketing materials haven't been specific enough. It's very hard to market to a kid who has no plan. We need to be getting those kids who do, and tell THEM how strong is in their field.

I too have little or no idea how to do this, but how can UM, which has had multiple years of significant enrollment decline and has apparently spent 7 figures on marketing and marketing consultants, still not know how to do this? Big time marketing consultants do this for a living, don't they? UM needs to select the right one. The enrollment decline is the single largest issue facing the university, as it causes the also important budget shortfalls. What could possibly be more important than reversing the enrollment decline and stopping the budget decline/shortfall?

 

[UMGriz75]

Kaimin Editorial: All remaining students please pretend everything is fine

http://www.montanakaimin.com/opinion/article_0c5aa4de-e57b-11e5-934f-d7507e42bd5d.html#comments?platform=hootsuite

"690 students lost over Winter Break alone." That's a record.

 

[Grisly Fan]

Kaimin Editorial: All remaining students please pretend everything is fine

http://www.montanakaimin.com/opinion/article_0c5aa4de-e57b-11e5-934f-d7507e42bd5d.html#comments?platform=hootsuite

"609 students lost over Winter Break alone." That's a record.

Kudos to GarretMorrill (commenter on the article). The whole rape thing has nearly achieved the status of "mass hysteria". All that is missing is for Orson Welles to be reading the narrative on KBGA.

 

[GrizLA]

For people like Jay Rummel and Rudy Autio, it probably works. For the target audience, 17-year old kids, they most likely associate "ceramics" with ash trays. Ash Tray University. To me, that is symptomatic of not understanding who they are trying to recruit in the first place. I am sure Coach Stitt, recruiting players, always mentions "Ceramics" at the U.

The fact is, during Engstrom's reign, the department took one of the biggest hits on campus. Now, there is something to point to.

So, if I am reading you correctly, you loathe the president of the university and want him removed. I won't argue with you on that point. But, you seem to want a trade school and not a university. Well, to each their own. But, UM has graduates in the arts more famous than even the most famous of football and basketball players. Perhaps, raising the admission standards would attract more students. When you accept everyone, or nearly so, of course there will be drop outs. A state school is at a disadvantage in that regard. But, why not try to reach the most creative and independent young people who are inner directed and see the fine and performing arts as the truly special things they are. UM is a UNIVERSITY, not a trade school. Perhaps, with a more aggressive leadership, it can "Thrive" (a bad hook, as ever there was) but, the Regents don't seem to think so. And, that is where the real problem lies.

 

[UMGriz75]

[ But, you seem to want a trade school and not a university.

My objection was specifically to the reference to making it sound like a trade school -- i.e. "welding."

To most peoiple, especially 17 year olds, "ceramics and welding" sound exactly like the frilly unserious crap already associated with higher education at "some" schools. Certainly not a "research" university.

I cited to an academic description of UM that I thought did a much better job of describing its strengths as an academic institution that managed not to mention "welding."

Let me try it again.

Top rated for combining academic quality and outdoor recreation, The University of Montana boasts one of the most scenic campuses in America. A number of unique programs combine academics with experiential learning in the surrounding outdoors.

Ranking seventeenth in the nation, and fifth among public universities in producing Rhodes Scholars, UM also boasts eight Pulitzer Prize winners and several Fullbright, Truman and Goldwater Scholars. It has been named a top university for Udall Scholars, receiving the most in 2005 and the most since the award's 1996 inception.

CPA candidates continue to achieve among the highest first-time pass rates. Seventy-eight percent of all UM pre-med students are admitted to various medical schools (well above the national average of 40 percent). UM boasts a number of unique programs: Radio-TV's student documentary program; the Entertainment Management Program, addressing the business of entertainment and event management; and Wilderness and Civilization (campus courses and wilderness fieldwork), among others.

UM Journalism students have established the first student chapter of the Native American Journalists Association. UM was honored among 81 "Colleges with a Conscience" and ranks 52among the top ten in the nation in producing Peace Corps volunteers.

Two NASA Earth Observing System satellites currently monitor the planet with software designed at UM. The UM ROTC program has been ranked ninth (out of 271) in the nation. Sports Illustrated ranked UM in its top twenty-five best college sports towns (UM was the only I-AA Football school on the list).

Monte, UM's mascot, was the 2004 and 2002 Capital One National Mascot.

The Grizzly football team has had twenty-five consecutive winning seasons since 1986, has won or shared fifteen conference championships since 1993, has reached the NCAA Division I-AA national playoffs nineteen times since 1993, and been to the national championship seven times, winning it in 1995 and 2001.

Street & Smith's magazine, the bible of college hoops, named the women's Lady Griz basketball program seventh among the all-time best women's basketball programs in the country (its sixteen regular season conference championships and fifteen conference tournament titles rank second in the nation).

UM ecologist and forestry professor Steve Running, one of the nation's foremost experts on climate change, was a co-recipient of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Al Gore and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), of which Running is a member.

Does that sound like a "trade school?"

 

[UMGriz75]

2013

"The enrollment decline we’re experiencing at UM is in the resident undergraduate population,” he said. “The enrollment picture is the thing that keeps me awake at night. We have five key actions we’re putting into motion to address enrollment, and resident undergraduates are the target.”

Yup, everything is "on target."
2013:

The University of Montana is experiencing an “enrollment problem” and has taken several steps to reverse the trend, the school’s president told the Montana Board of Regents on Wednesday.

Engstrom noted five steps UM is taking to reboot its enrollment numbers.

Among them, he named more focused recruiting, a review of financial aid and how it compares to other schools, and a more “consumer friendly” atmosphere that realizes students have choices.

2015.

The commissioner's office doesn't want to see campuses competing against each other for Montana students, but he agreed UM should look to increase its enrollment of out-of-state and international students.

He also said UM plans to do so, and the commissioner's office supports its plans.

"The reason we say they should is they have made their case, they're trying to, they're focusing on it. And the regents support that," McRae said.

Engstrom assured the BOR, he was "focusing" on the problem.
2014:

Spring enrollment at the University of Montana fell more than 6 percent over fall enrollment, reflecting what school administrators describe as a normal decrease in students after the winter break.

Peggy Kuhr, UM vice president of integrated communications, said 13,554 students enrolled for classes in the 2014 spring semester. That’s down from 14,525 students who signed up for the fall semester in 2013.

“We had a higher number of fall graduates, or degrees awarded at the end of the fall semester,” Kuhr said Thursday. “Enrollment numbers normally go down from fall to the spring semester.”

It’s really not an indicator at all,” Kuhr said. “It simply reflects where you are midpoint in the year. Students graduate early, move to another school, or for personal or financial reasons don’t come back. There’s not a lot of stock in spring numbers as an indicator.”

It's all "normal!"
2014:

UM officials expected the enrollment decline due to smaller incoming classes the past two years while having larger graduating classes.

Nothing to worry about, we expected it!
2014:

She says UM is doubling down on its overall recruiting efforts and points out the school posted a 6.4% increase in freshman students this semester. UM also saw an increase in the average high school GPA for new freshman. That average is 3.31 compared with 3.27 for last fall.

Doubling down!
2015:

Asked to summarize the ongoing enrollment drop at the University of Montana, Provost Perry Brown takes the next 14 minutes to explain. He begins precisely where President Royce Engstrom did during his annual address in August, by suggesting the small classes of the past four years are a kind of correction to the record number of students who attended UM during the economic recession.

"Actually, we just dropped back to the pre-recession period. We're almost back to normal now," Brown says. "That was a blip, an anomaly."

We are almost back to "normal!" Another few thousand students gone, and we will be fabulously "normal."

This is the problem on campus. Every new campaign will "turn things around" even at the same time that these highly paid administrators are trying to argue, "gee, it's actually a good thing!"

The campus community is fed up with the weasily attitude of Engstrom and his staff. These guys have no clue, and when they say incredibly stupid stuff, like Perry Brown above, everyone just rolls their eyes. Either they are stupid, or they think the campus community is stupid.

UM has "doubled down" on recruiting efforts about four times now; That cumulatively means they are doing 16 times more recruiting than the first "double down." That's the problem with the latest press release. UM has already said all of that, several times.

 

[Umista]

Most of the "jackal like characacters" 75 speaks of (above) are educated way beyond their intelligence.

Yes, I swiped this statement from Bill S. What in the hell could they lead?

When I hear double down I imediately think of a drinking situation...not a dumb effort at BS.

 

[UMGriz75]

Speaking with a friend yesterday, a Missoula resident, UM alum, with two daughters attending UM. They're transferring to MSU next fall. He said their departments are being slashed, he's sick of Engstrom spending seven years weaseling about "the problem" that he pretty much set in motion, and its obvious to him the BOR isn't inclined to fix it. Seven years is a very long time to continue to reward failure. It shows an inability in Main Hall and at the BOR to deal with it.

So it begins. Even the "core" student body, Missoula kids the children of UM Alums, are bailing.

The moral to the story here is that, if you don't fix it, it may get to the point that you can't fix it.

 

[fanofzoo]

Speaking with a friend yesterday, a Missoula resident, UM alum, with two daughters attending UM. They're transferring to MSU next fall. He said their departments are being slashed, he's sick of Engstrom spending seven years weaseling about "the problem" that he pretty much set in motion, and its obvious to him the BOR isn't inclined to fix it. Seven years is a very long time to continue to reward failure. It shows an inability in Main Hall and at the BOR to deal with it.

So it begins. Even the "core" student body, Missoula kids the children of UM Alums, are bailing.

The moral to the story here is that, if you don't fix it, it may get to the point that you can't fix it.

No sweat, no sweat it's all being fixed. Last night the U ran an old (5-6 tears/years) ad clip, it was way better than anything now, much of what 75 said. See it's all good.