Engstrom

[62GRIZ]

I will not declare that Engstrom made the wrong move, but I will not be convinced that he made the right decision until I know the reasons for the dismissals. There is still the possibility he fired both to save his own job. If that turns out to be the case I'll be toatally disgusted. If there is a viable justification for the firings I'll support the decision. It will take some strong evidence to convince me that Jim O'Day was not doing an outstanding job as AD. I will support Engstrom based on facts rather than presumptions.

 

['68griz]

I will not declare that Engstrom made the wrong move, but I will not be convinced that he made the right decision until I know the reasons for the dismissals. There is still the possibility he fired both to save his own job. If that turns out to be the case I'll be toatally disgusted. If there is a viable justification for the firings I'll support the decision. It will take some strong evidence to convince me that Jim O'Day was not doing an outstanding job as AD. I will support Engstrom based on facts rather than presumptions.

I think this is how I feel too. I find the lack of explanations for the dismissals really disconcerting.

 

[argh!]

For people who are concerned about, or want to have some influence over, the future direction of UM athletics, there are various views on the proper approach. You can continue to donate, and say nothing. You can continue to donate, and say something softly. You can can continue to donate, be nice, and try to meet with Engstrom. You can withhold donations--and do either of the above 3 things. Some believe that withholding donations, for now, will encourage Engstrom to make better decisions regarding athletics. Who will be the future head coach and when? Who will be the AD? What negative actions, if any, will be taken against players under the athletic and university codes? I can tell you one thing: if JJ were thrown out without being charged legally, there would be some irritated supporters. How much support will the university provide to athletes? How much money will the university siphon off of athletics in the future? What is Engstrom going to do about tailgating and alcohol?

Note that many athletic donors who are withholding or withdrawing donations/pledges now, are willing to increase their donations to certain things, such as to the qb club or for specific needs. Aslo note that some donors are also withholding donations from the general fund, professional schools, etc.

I am more pessimistic than some. I fear that there is a significant chance that Engstrom's recent and future actions will signficantly and negatively impact UM athletics, as well as the university.

sounds like greenie got a little lecture on his involvement with the program. people fearing engstrom will make bad hiring decisions based on two very intertwined firings? o'night and pflugrad obviously exhibited behavior that led him to think their football program would continue in the same direction as far as athlete behavior. how does that indicate he doesn't have the ability to make good hires?

 

[mtgrizrule]

Good to hear, Engstrom, and O'day have both moved on since the controversial decision.

As I read this thread throughout my work day, I had to laugh, when my mind got to wondering a little too far. Being Egrizzers are the 1st to post any, and all news, rumor, or truth, the Athletic Department, Engstrom, players, coaches, and BOR all spoke to Chris to help our fans get a better perspective on how it is to be a GRIZ. How are they going to do that?

They are asking Chris to publish an updated EGRIZ roster every month, with actual names, not tied to our egriz name. With that roster, the players, coaches, Engstrom, basically anyone can now search the Missoula Jail Roster for egrizzers having legal run ins. There will be a new website dedicated to freely posting whatever you want about any egrizzer, including jumping to conclusions, guilty before being found innocent, being classified as a "thug" or "gangbanger", etc EGRIZZER.

Every egrizzer, including Chris, and mods are subject to this list, and to participate on egriz one has to agree to being put in the public spotlight, or not be an EGRIZZER any longer. Rumor has it there will also be your groups or individuals known as EGRIZ insiders, only by their own claim(s), the my opinion is right, and any other opinion is wrong, because I am always right, the designated member claiming to know every thing, and everyone before Chris even knows it.

Of course, Chris will own, and manage this new website too. :thumb:

Seriously, I was laughing all day at work, while thinking of this. Thanks to all contributors for making work rather enjoyable today, while my mind got to wandering. :thumb:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Yup, that may be true, and Engstrom may cater to some donors who like the action he took. And some supporters will continue to donate. However, I believe the net amount of contributions and pledges, at least to athletics, will be significantly lower for the foreseeable future. Some people will probably get over their concern/irriation fairly soon, but some will likely remain on the sidelines for awhile. Some may put their money elsewhere. Some future funds from people who are saying they are changing their wills, won't get to UM if the people die before they become happy again with UM and put the donations back in. Some people have other demands for their money including other schools to support, so some of this money is never going to get to UM.

Some questions for you. If UM football loses a bunch of games this fall or the year after, or both, what impact do you think that will have on donations? If UM starts tossing out athletes who haven't been charged with anything, or who have plead to disorderly conduct or dui's, how will you view that? Will that make you happy?

If people are donating because they're bandwagonners just glomming on to something successful I say good riddance. If we start losing a bunch of games this year or the year after, it won't be because Engstrom fired Pflu & O'Day.

And when have I advocated tossing out athletes who haven't pled guilty? There's a whole 'nother level of significance between DUI/Disorderly Conduct and rape--would you not agree? What would REALLY make me happy would be for a few of the players to stop doing stupid stuff and putting themselves in compromising positions (whether ultimately found guity or not) that could/will reflect badly on themselves, the team, their coaching staff and the university.

People who donate are not bandwagoners. Donors are critical to any successful program. It's just a fact that more people donate more when the team or teams are successful, just like more people attend games when the team is successful.

I disagree with your statement about what might cause the team to be less successful, or not successful. It would be a direct result of firing the coach, having to have an interim coach, making recruiting more difficult, possible losing some players who would transfer (either sooner or later), possibly losing more assistants than usual (do not think the assistants might not be thinking about what may happen to them after the interim coach is gone?), etc.

I just asked you some questions; I didn't accuse you of anything. Why is it so hard to just answer the questions? I answered yours.

Didn't I answer yours?

And conversely, I think a team/program with more discipline (both internally AND externally) might actually win MORE games. This was going to potentially be a rebuilding year anyway, what with a new OC & DC and 9 new starters on defense. How convenient that if Mick goes out and goes 7-4 or 6-5 it can conveniently be blamed on Engstrom's decision. If the team goes 10-1, will you be unhappy because it disproves your hypothesis?

 

[TxGriz]

The firings came from nowhere just as the University accepted a report from the Barz investigation that stipulated a process for oversight of student conduct code violations that everyone was applauding as a model for moving forward. O'Day's and Pflugrad's jobs were otherwise in great standing, and then they were blindsided.

My concern is that in light of the unjust way in which these two people were terminated, how do they expect to attract qualified people to take these low paying jobs to start with when it is now clearly demonstrated they can be fired without due process? What kind of recruiting tool is that when we try to attract high quality coaches with embarrassingly low pay? Oh, and by the way - welcome to Missoula, Montana with high cost of living and low pay and any day of the week you can be fired.

On top of the arbitrary nature of the firings, donors are seeing the department placed in a position to fritter away its meager financial resources on legal proceedings.

 

[Grizmayor]

The firings came from nowhere just as the University accepted a report from the Barz investigation that stipulated a process for oversight of student conduct code violations that everyone was applauding as a model for moving forward. O'Day's and Pflugrad's jobs were otherwise in great standing, and then they were blindsided.

My concern is that in light of the unjust way in which these two people were terminated, how do they expect to attract qualified people to take these low paying jobs to start with when it is now clearly demonstrated they can be fired without due process? What kind of recruiting tool is that when we try to attract high quality coaches with embarrassingly low pay? Oh, and by the way - welcome to Missoula, Montana with high cost of living and low pay and any day of the week you can be fired.

On top of the arbitrary nature of the firings, donors are seeing the department placed in a position to fritter away its meager financial resources on legal proceedings.

Another check in the "Just doesn't get it" column?

 

[ranco]

The firings came from nowhere just as the University accepted a report from the Barz investigation that stipulated a process for oversight of student conduct code violations that everyone was applauding as a model for moving forward. O'Day's and Pflugrad's jobs were otherwise in great standing, and then they were blindsided.

My concern is that in light of the unjust way in which these two people were terminated, how do they expect to attract qualified people to take these low paying jobs to start with when it is now clearly demonstrated they can be fired without due process? What kind of recruiting tool is that when we try to attract high quality coaches with embarrassingly low pay? Oh, and by the way - welcome to Missoula, Montana with high cost of living and low pay and any day of the week you can be fired.

On top of the arbitrary nature of the firings, donors are seeing the department placed in a position to fritter away its meager financial resources on legal proceedings.

Another check in the "Just doesn't get it" column?

Really?? TXGriz is spot on. Apparently you think its just fine and dandy to wake up one morning and, without any explainable reason, fire two highly succesful - highly thought of - people, without a stitch of cocern for their past work and loyalties. Keep in mind, despite all the talk about sexual assaults, only one player - one - was charged, and he was suspended from the team. Engstrom was feeling the heat and he decided to sacrifice a couple of people to make it look like he is doing something productive. If you respect that, then I feel very badly for you.

 

[fanofzoo]

As to the reaction of Jim O'Day upon encountering President Engstrom at a GSA function: They are both Grizzlies and UM men, first and formost; and, they would shake hands and wish each other luck.

Let this meeting happen in a dark alley and I think Jim is the only man to walk out.

 

[TxGriz]

The firings came from nowhere just as the University accepted a report from the Barz investigation that stipulated a process for oversight of student conduct code violations that everyone was applauding as a model for moving forward. O'Day's and Pflugrad's jobs were otherwise in great standing, and then they were blindsided.

My concern is that in light of the unjust way in which these two people were terminated, how do they expect to attract qualified people to take these low paying jobs to start with when it is now clearly demonstrated they can be fired without due process? What kind of recruiting tool is that when we try to attract high quality coaches with embarrassingly low pay? Oh, and by the way - welcome to Missoula, Montana with high cost of living and low pay and any day of the week you can be fired.

On top of the arbitrary nature of the firings, donors are seeing the department placed in a position to fritter away its meager financial resources on legal proceedings.

Another check in the "Just doesn't get it" column?

Please enlighten me then, oh learned one. What is it in what I said that I "just don't get"? What is it (taken from the public record) that is factually incorrect about the sequence of events?

My opinion is based on everything that has been published, and going by that the firings were handled in about the most lowball manner, which doesn't give Engstrom any higher ground to stand on than the supposed overseers of this crime spree.

 

[Cats2506]

are you people still pissing and moaning about this, Jesus Christ, you just got an upgrade in the coaching department, move on

 

[Brock Landers]

 

[grizatwork]

are you people still pissing and moaning about this, Jesus Christ, you just got an upgrade in the coaching department, move on

As much as I hate to agree, he is probably right. I have been saying move on for awhile, but we may have lucked into a perfect storm for next year. A team consolidated with an us against the world attitude. Teams overlooking us because of the issues. A coach that can heal the team and one who is going to let his assistants/coordinators coach and not meddle. He also seems to be more media savvy and better versed at choosing the right things to say. I liked Pflugrad, but he seemed to be a little spacey at times and not choose his words very carefully.

Anyone who thinks Engstrom woke up one morning at just decided to do this is just idiotic. I can guarantee you every move has been calculated and checked with the universities legal team. His silence on the matter is the right thing to do at this time. O'Day and Pflugrad have lawyered up. Shows how smart he is by not giving them any ammo to use against the university at a later date.

 

[ranco]

are you people still pissing and moaning about this, Jesus Christ, you just got an upgrade in the coaching department, move on

As much as I hate to agree, he is probably right. I have been saying move on for awhile, but we may have lucked into a perfect storm for next year. A team consolidated with an us against the world attitude. Teams overlooking us because of the issues. A coach that can heal the team and one who is going to let his assistants/coordinators coach and not meddle. He also seems to be more media savvy and better versed at choosing the right things to say. I liked Pflugrad, but he seemed to be a little spacey at times and not choose his words very carefully.

Anyone who thinks Engstrom woke up one morning at just decided to do this is just idiotic. I can guarantee you every move has been calculated and checked with the universities legal team. His silence on the matter is the right thing to do at this time. O'Day and Pflugrad have lawyered up. Shows how smart he is by not giving them any ammo to use against the university at a later date.

I agree with your first paragraph entirely. I also agree the U is right for not publicly discussing the case. However, I can't but wonder about your idea that "every move was cacluated and checked with the university's legal team." You either have your head in the sand or Engstrom is complete idiot and the U needs a new legal team.

 

[grizatwork]

are you people still pissing and moaning about this, Jesus Christ, you just got an upgrade in the coaching department, move on

As much as I hate to agree, he is probably right. I have been saying move on for awhile, but we may have lucked into a perfect storm for next year. A team consolidated with an us against the world attitude. Teams overlooking us because of the issues. A coach that can heal the team and one who is going to let his assistants/coordinators coach and not meddle. He also seems to be more media savvy and better versed at choosing the right things to say. I liked Pflugrad, but he seemed to be a little spacey at times and not choose his words very carefully.

Anyone who thinks Engstrom woke up one morning at just decided to do this is just idiotic. I can guarantee you every move has been calculated and checked with the universities legal team. His silence on the matter is the right thing to do at this time. O'Day and Pflugrad have lawyered up. Shows how smart he is by not giving them any ammo to use against the university at a later date.

I agree with your first paragraph entirely. I also agree the U is right for not publicly discussing the case. However, I can't but wonder about your idea that "every move was cacluated and checked with the university's legal team." You either have your head in the sand or Engstrom is complete idiot and the U needs a new legal team.

So you don't think the University's legal team researched the Mike Kramer files before Engstrom let these two go? I would think they did. There is certainly fallout. I am sure it is about what they expected, but by keeping a lid on things, they are minimizing the universities exposure to liability.

 

[Spanky]

Maybe the firings were not necessary or just, however, I believe Engstrom was told to terminate the two gentlemen. If you are complaining about Engstrom in general, you need to look no further than the manner in which he was hired which was nothing more than the standard Dennison back room deal without proper consideration given to other applicants and an ethical process of candidate interviews. Engstrom was hired in the classic good old boy manner which has become tradition at UM for all key positions with Dennison as the architect.

 

[ranco]

are you people still pissing and moaning about this, Jesus Christ, you just got an upgrade in the coaching department, move on

As much as I hate to agree, he is probably right. I have been saying move on for awhile, but we may have lucked into a perfect storm for next year. A team consolidated with an us against the world attitude. Teams overlooking us because of the issues. A coach that can heal the team and one who is going to let his assistants/coordinators coach and not meddle. He also seems to be more media savvy and better versed at choosing the right things to say. I liked Pflugrad, but he seemed to be a little spacey at times and not choose his words very carefully.

Anyone who thinks Engstrom woke up one morning at just decided to do this is just idiotic. I can guarantee you every move has been calculated and checked with the universities legal team. His silence on the matter is the right thing to do at this time. O'Day and Pflugrad have lawyered up. Shows how smart he is by not giving them any ammo to use against the university at a later date.

I agree with your first paragraph entirely. I also agree the U is right for not publicly discussing the case. However, I can't but wonder about your idea that "every move was cacluated and checked with the university's legal team." You either have your head in the sand or Engstrom is complete idiot and the U needs a new legal team.

So you don't think the University's legal team researched the Mike Kramer files before Engstrom let these two go? I would think they did. There is certainly fallout. I am sure it is about what they expected, but by keeping a lid on things, they are minimizing the universities exposure to liability.

no, they just didn't research Montana law. btw, i happen to agree about the need to put a lid on things - see above.

 

[tourist]

I wonder how he will be received by the crowd at WGS during the South Dakota game, when he goes out for his first photo shoot in front of the North Endzone Crazies. Any bets?

 

[Grizbacker1]

Maybe the firings were not necessary or just, however, I believe Engstrom was told to terminate the two gentlemen. If you are complaining about Engstrom in general, you need to look no further than the manner in which he was hired which was nothing more than the standard Dennison back room deal without proper consideration given to other applicants and an ethical process of candidate interviews. Engstrom was hired in the classic good old boy manner which has become tradition at UM for all key positions with Dennison as the architect.

Engstrom was the Long Gunman, he was working alone. The few people who he had discussed this with on previous occaision all told he them were oppossed to this action.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Good for him. He has nothing to be ashamed of. He made a decision based on what he thought was best for the university at the time. That is his job. We are a hundred times better off with him than Dennison. He at least seems interested in growing the program rather than raping it to fund his pet projects.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: