Engstrom stepping down

[GrizFan2011]

My daughter graduated from Sentinel in Missoula in 1998, in the top 3% of her class. She received information packets from nearly 200 colleges, received countless phone calls and personal letters, and had scholarship offers from half a dozen colleges from west to east coast, including a couple to which she never even applied. UM sent her, perhaps, three little pamphlets, nothing more, over a period of two years.

I generally have 2-3 student athletes in residence, and their mail usually follows them from home. Over the years, MSU pamphlets, still following the students even after the start of their freshman year, are generally on the kitchen table. Haven't seen a UM pamphlet. Ever. Not one. MSU pamphlets went out to the kids and the buyers at the 4-H stock sale at the Missoula County fair these past three years.

I had two Hellgate graduates - both honor students - 2003 and 2005. Neither received one piece of material from UM. We are totally focused on out-of-state students and have not looked at our own back yard for recruitment. Neither of my daughters went to UM - both had scholarships elsewhere. Engstrom didn't do anything to reverse that trend even though I contacted him directly when he took over and had many other Montana folks do the same. He had his chance and blew it.

 

[grizbro]

My daughter will graduate high school this spring at the top of her class and like others has recieved numerous college recruiting information from all over the US. She (and we) get weekly emails, phone calls and mailings from MSU after being identified as a prime candidate under their "Leadership Edge" program even though she has decided to go into journalism which isn't one of Bozemans draws. Other than a few postcards from UM we haven't heard much from them. Interesting though that she did apply to UM and it only took a couple weeks for the acceptance letter to come.

 

[grizfnz]

My daughter will graduate high school this spring at the top of her class and like others has recieved numerous college recruiting information from all over the US. She (and we) get weekly emails, phone calls and mailings from MSU after being identified as a prime candidate under their "Leadership Edge" program even though she has decided to go into journalism which isn't one of Bozemans draws. Other than a few postcards from UM we haven't heard much from them. Interesting though that she did apply to UM and it only took a couple weeks for the acceptance letter to come.

Our son (top of class, high test scores, AP courses, etc.) is in the same boat, weekly letters from schools across the county, MSU included. We get weekly emails from MSU as well, reminding him of guaranteed scholarship deadlines, application fee waiver etc. Even as an out of state student UM hasn't done much recruiting (although they encouraged him to apply to the Davidson Honors College). It took about two weeks to receive his acceptance letter from UM, no word from DHC yet.

 

[PlayerRep]

In my OPINION, to simplify things, we need to go the other direction. Her leadership would be similar to Engstroms. She has too big of a heart too little business experience to pull this institution out of its tailspin.

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

 

[tnt]

And so?

 

[behappp]

In my OPINION, to simplify things, we need to go the other direction. Her leadership would be similar to Engstroms. She has too big of a heart too little business experience to pull this institution out of its tailspin.

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

 

[kemajic]

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

Or as 75 has pointed out, her lack of key credentials for the job and the task at hand.

 

[behappp]

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

Or as 75 has pointed out, her lack of key credentials for the job and the task at hand.

That too.

 

[PlayerRep]

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

My point was to provide the prior poster with additional factual information, from an article, because he said he hadn't been aware of the DUI's. I made no comment or argument with what I posted. I asked if the poster was aware of it.

A question for you. Do you think it would be good for UM to hire, now, a president without significant higher education experience, without any experience in higher ed administration, a couple DUI's, and who is apparently openly gay. Do you think the faculty and alumni, and the bulk of the larger donors, would be supportive of that? Do you think she would be good at overseeing and supporting UM athletics?

 

[behappp]

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

My point was to provide the prior poster with additional factual information, from an article, because he said he hadn't been aware of the DUI's. I made no comment or argument with what I posted. I asked if the poster was aware of it.

A question for you. Do you think it would be good for UM to hire, now, a president without significant higher education experience, without any experience in higher ed administration, a couple DUI's, and who is apparently openly gay. Do you think the faculty and alumni, and the bulk of the larger donors, would be supportive of that? Do you think she would be good at overseeing and supporting UM athletics?

My guess is that she would be more supportive of UM athletics than Royce was, but that is a pretty low bar.

I don't think the problems that Royce is leaving behind are ones of appearance, but run much deeper. Faculty, Alumni and large donors would be open to someone who shows he/she is an effective administrator, IMHO. From talking to people who know her, she is an excellent administrator and could very well do as good a job as Ms Cruzado. I'm sure there were those who questioned whether a Puerto Rican woman was the right person to lead MSU, but she quickly showed she was more than capable.

One thing I do know is that while the contributors to EGriz may have some influence on FB head coach, they are not the ones who will influence the choice of Royce's replacement.

 

[grizpack]

I could care less what her sexual orientation is. To each their own. Even the 2 DUI's don't really matter to me (I never knew about that). I just think there are much more qualified candidates.

 

[wbtfg]

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

My point was to provide the prior poster with additional factual information, from an article, because he said he hadn't been aware of the DUI's. I made no comment or argument with what I posted. I asked if the poster was aware of it.

A question for you. Do you think it would be good for UM to hire, now, a president without significant higher education experience, without any experience in higher ed administration, a couple DUI's, and who is apparently openly gay. Do you think the faculty and alumni, and the bulk of the larger donors, would be supportive of that? Do you think she would be good at overseeing and supporting UM athletics?

Don't forget, she's also openly Native American and openly female.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UMGriz75]

I had always thought that James Koch was a particularly good appointment. Well published in economics, he continued to teach while at UM, and still managed to be the chief recruiter personally visiting more high schools in the state than any UM president before or since. He talked to the kids in Montana directly. They listened. Enrollment surged. He continued to publish after leaving UM and is a well known economist.

Most forget that Engstrom, at UM, was an actual scientist, while Cruzado was, I vaguely recall, something of a social studies major, and who managed to lose for MSU its coveted Carnegie Research University designation, because she wasn't sure who "Carnegie" was and thought that, therefore, he should be fired.

Engstrom never played up his credentials. Few are even aware of them. He could have played the card very well. Like most of the cards he was dealt, he did not play that one at all.

 

[UMGriz75]

Don't forget, she's also openly Native American and openly female.

As the first Kaimin editorial writer to advocate for an "Indian Studies Program," literally the first person at UM to publicly advocate for Indian Studies -- being associated with Salish-Kootenai -- and "why are we instead funding Black Studies that spends their funds on keggers, in a state where we have, for the most part, no Blacks," please ask how Professor Doss sent three large thugs over to "ask me" about my editorial, the confrontation so inflamed that an associate editor, who just happened keep a revolver in his desk drawer, signaled to me across the room that he had "opened the drawer."

"Those were the days my friends, we thought they'd never end."

 

[PlayerRep]

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

My point was to provide the prior poster with additional factual information, from an article, because he said he hadn't been aware of the DUI's. I made no comment or argument with what I posted. I asked if the poster was aware of it.

A question for you. Do you think it would be good for UM to hire, now, a president without significant higher education experience, without any experience in higher ed administration, a couple DUI's, and who is apparently openly gay. Do you think the faculty and alumni, and the bulk of the larger donors, would be supportive of that? Do you think she would be good at overseeing and supporting UM athletics?

Don't forget, she's also openly Native American and openly female.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Am I am big supporters of both.

 

[PlayerRep]

One thing I do know is that while the contributors to EGriz may have some influence on FB head coach, they are not the ones who will influence the choice of Royce's replacement.

Nope. Wrong again. There are a good number of contributors to egriz who know, are good friends with, or are former business associates of people on the board of regents.

 

[kemajic]

I had always thought that James Koch was a particularly good appointment. Well published in economics, he continued to teach while at UM, and still managed to be the chief recruiter personally visiting more high schools in the state than any UM president before or since. He talked to the kids in Montana directly. They listened. Enrollment surged. He continued to publish after leaving UM and is a well known economist.

Most forget that Engstrom, at UM, was an actual scientist, while Cruzado was, I vaguely recall, something of a social studies major, and who managed to lose for MSU its coveted Carnegie Research University designation, because she wasn't sure who "Carnegie" was and thought that, therefore, he should be fired.

Engstrom never played up his credentials. Few are even aware of them. He could have played the card very well. Like most of the cards he was dealt, he did not play that one at all.

Engstrom is far from renowned in the field of chemistry.

 

[griz4life]

Did you know this? First 3 paras of linked Gazette article.

"Denise Juneau has won two statewide elections as a Native American woman.

As the 48-year-old congressional candidate ramps up her campaign against first-term Republican U.S. Rep. Ryan Zinke, she is matter-of-fact about her sexual orientation, making her Montana’s first openly gay candidate running for federal office.

While Juneau introduced the woman she is dating at a fundraiser in Bozeman last week, she has been open for some time about her sexuality, without making a big deal of it."

http://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/juneau-becomes-montana-s-st-openly-gay-candidate-for-federal/article_439a27d3-fa58-5485-8e17-130d9d8f80d7.html

And your point is? This fact is not relevant to her ability or lack of ability to lead UM into a new direction.
The DUI's I would guess would be more influential in whether or not she is chosen.

My point was to provide the prior poster with additional factual information, from an article, because he said he hadn't been aware of the DUI's. I made no comment or argument with what I posted. I asked if the poster was aware of it.

A question for you. Do you think it would be good for UM to hire, now, a president without significant higher education experience, without any experience in higher ed administration, a couple DUI's, and who is apparently openly gay. Do you think the faculty and alumni, and the bulk of the larger donors, would be supportive of that? Do you think she would be good at overseeing and supporting UM athletics?

My guess is that she would be more supportive of UM athletics than Royce was, but that is a pretty low bar.

I don't think the problems that Royce is leaving behind are ones of appearance, but run much deeper. Faculty, Alumni and large donors would be open to someone who shows he/she is an effective administrator, IMHO. From talking to people who know her, she is an excellent administrator and could very well do as good a job as Ms Cruzado. I'm sure there were those who questioned whether a Puerto Rican woman was the right person to lead MSU, but she quickly showed she was more than capable.

One thing I do know is that while the contributors to EGriz may have some influence on FB head coach, they are not the ones who will influence the choice of Royce's replacement.

Well one thing's for sure. She won't get the job if there's a public vote. That loss to Zinke was a doozy.
She's probably a great human being, but am I the only one who thinks she looks bad fishing for her next gig while UM is about to be gutted like a fish?
Someone should ask her what she would do if she had the job now because the real hard decisions are going to be made without her.
I wouldn't sign her petition until she told me how she'd handle the budget cuts and job cuts that will come next.

 

[UMGriz75]

Sitting around the table this evening with some from the Drama Dept. They share the views of most, Engstrom has thoroughly demoralized the campus with his inability to even recognize the problems let alone design solutions. When he does seek outside help, he hires incompetent recruiting firms. Noting that the University slogan, announced with great fanfare when Royce took over, attempting to put his "stamp" on everything, we got a logo derisively called the "wet noodle," abandoned the proper usage of "The" University of Montana and ... "thrive." In a state where the population views the term as relevant to a bottle-fed calf. It finally changed, recently, to "Let's Go There!" which the assembled thought was probably worse than "Thrive!" And used in ads that are likely the most uninspired college ads out there.

The next Pres has a big hole to dig out of. This process went on far too long, the damage allowed to accumulate and become self-perpetuating, and in hindsight demonstrates some truth to the observation that bad managers don't improve by giving them 2,3, 5 or seven more years.

On the bright side, the new VP of enrollment seems to clearly "get it." But he's also not painting a pretty picture. The bad PR has been going on too long. Most of the kids now choosing college have heard nothing but bad news about UM since they were in the Sixth Grade.

After Hurricane Katrina, Tulane did a massive revamp of its educational mission, replacing the gloomy headlnes with challenges, and progress and change. It seems to have worked for them.

Curious still as to what the trigger was for this. The November enrollment figures have still not been released. The Enrollment VP has been highly and publicly critical. I suspect the November numbers must be very bad.

 

[first11]

Sitting around the table this evening with some from the Drama Dept. They share the views of most, Engstrom has thoroughly demoralized the campus with his inability to even recognize the problems let alone design solutions. When he does seek outside help, he hires incompetent recruiting firms. Noting that the University slogan, announced with great fanfare when Royce took over, attempting to put his "stamp" on everything, we got a logo derisively called the "wet noodle," abandoned the proper usage of "The" University of Montana and ... "thrive." In a state where the population views the term as relevant to a bottle-fed calf. It finally changed, recently, to "Let's Go There!" which the assembled thought was probably worse than "Thrive!" And used in ads that are likely the most uninspired college ads out there.

The next Pres has a big hole to dig out of. This process went on far too long, the damage allowed to accumulate and become self-perpetuating, and in hindsight demonstrates some truth to the observation that bad managers don't improve by giving them 2,3, 5 or seven more years.

On the bright side, the new VP of enrollment seems to clearly "get it." But he's also not painting a pretty picture. The bad PR has been going on too long. Most of the kids now choosing college have heard nothing but bad news about UM since they were in the Sixth Grade.

After Hurricane Katrina, Tulane did a massive revamp of its educational mission, replacing the gloomy headlnes with challenges, and progress and change. It seems to have worked for them.

Curious still as to what the trigger was for this. The November enrollment figures have still not been released. The Enrollment VP has been highly and publicly critical. I suspect the November numbers must be very bad.

Enrollment indeed the crux of the bane that has settled over UM. High Ed liberal arts programs are feeling the strain, UM doing much worse in terms of retention as well as looking less attractive for prospectors. UM has done well in attracting international students, but a worrying trend in recent political thought and action could well damper students from attending here. The hundreds of students from abroad (many from Asia) are paying the full bill, often sponsored by respective governments. If they feel unwelcome here or less attracted to UM, we could experience a dire plummet in future enrollment.