Engstrom stepping down

[UMGriz75]

UM has good programs and what should be a fine campus experience, so it should be doing better. But that's the rub: You have to sell your great stuff (and it can be a hard sell). We've heard far too many stories on here, over the years, from parents whose sons or daughters are about to graduate ... but have heard ZERO from UM, while getting brochures, standard mailings, etc. from other schools. That is truly an area where "you have to spend money to make money" -- the final "money" being a fee-paying, enrolled student. Yet, from all indications, UM is doing an abysmal (piss poor :evil: ) job in that area.

Both Tom Crady and his predecessor, Jed Liston, have pointed out that MSU began outspending UM on recruiting several years ago, first at a two-to-one rate, and then a three-to-one rate. That's been pointed out to Engstrom on several occasions, but he seemed oddly oblivious to the solution: spend more money on recruiting. In some ways he did, but mainly these were in failed attempts to outsource recruiting, which did more harm than good. It was emblematic of the "Engstrom Era" that the first email blast by the first contractor encouraged potential recruits to "attend Montana State University."

The efforts did more harm than good. Engstrom just never "got it." I doubt that I've ever seen a nicer human being so oblivious to basic management skills, such as his notorious failure to even read the "DOJ/DOE Settlement Agreement" before he signed it, condemning male students to violations of due process across the country and universities to tens of millions of dollars of settlements.

Crady pointed to the budget failures publicly in a Missoula Independent feature a couple of weeks ago. He minced no words. He's worried, and UM simply did not invest. Unspoken directly, but strongly implied, is that the Engstrom administration let this happen by simple negligence. Cut budgets? OK, cut recruitment budgets too! Incomprehensible decisions.

 

[grizzly bob 70]

Interestingly enough, 2 years ago I went through some of the recruiting process with my youngest son and am able to compare the process of both schools. I was very impressed with the entire process at MSU. The students that were giving the campus tour were engaged, organized, friendly and very strong supporters of MSU much to my disappointment. In sharp contrast I found the students doing tours at U of M to be disinterested and put-off by having to complete tours that had been scheduled for over a month in advance. At the time I wrote a note to the university describing what I had witnessed and was hoping it was not a true reflection of the process at the U of M. Apparently it was not...

 

[tnt]

Question, maybe 75 or PR can answer.

But wouldn't RE have retreat rights as an internal hire? Is it possible he could "retreat" to his previous position as chancellor (which is open) or at very least as a chemistry prof (I believe he had tenure) If they chose not to have him in either of those positions wouldn't they have to pay him until mandatory retirement age? I'm not saying he would do it but I am curious.....

 

[IdaGriz01]

Interestingly enough, 2 years ago I went through some of the recruiting process with my youngest son and am able to compare the process of both schools. I was very impressed with the entire process at MSU. The students that were giving the campus tour were engaged, organized, friendly and very strong supporters of MSU much to my disappointment. In sharp contrast I found the students doing tours at U of M to be disinterested and put-off by having to complete tours that had been scheduled for over a month in advance. At the time I wrote a note to the university describing what I had witnessed and was hoping it was not a true reflection of the process at the U of M. Apparently it was not...

Bingo!

Too many stories like this one.

 

[PlayerRep]

Question, maybe 75 or PR can answer.

But wouldn't RE have retreat rights as an internal hire? Is it possible he could "retreat" to his previous position as chancellor (which is open) or at very least as a chemistry prof (I believe he had tenure) If they chose not to have him in either of those positions wouldn't they have to pay him until mandatory retirement age? I'm not saying he would do it but I am curious.....

Don't know, but assume professor job would be open. Assume chancellor would not. Assume they just have to pay him under his existing president contract, which runs through end of June, I believe. Haven't noticed any other severance in articles or statements.

 

[PlayerRep]

Maybe Engstrom should see if he could get Pflu to help him get the president's job at Pflu's JC in Phoenix. Heck, maybe O'Day could find a job for him at his company.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Interesting comments about new programs at UM, a medical school would be great but it is terribly expensive to start and then to run and I doubt if the state coffers are that loaded with extra $'s plus i believe MSU already said NO and Bozeman would not be a good location anyhow--they need a more complex healthcare/hospital operation to make it work. Missoula does have the healthcare operations but money is the issue I think. Ancillary programs to complement PT and Pharmacy would be great--OT, Optometry for example. Recruiting is also a big issue and it sounds to me like UM has fallen way behind in that respect. I am also thrilled that Engstrom has been shown the door--it is obvious that he was not willing or able to do what needed to be done and most of what needed to be done should have been done 3-4 years ago.

I doubt the State of Montana could afford a Medical School and if one was to be developed the most logical location would be in Billings. MSUB s just up the hill from both hospitals and the service offered are the most extensive in the state. Billings Clinic is now affiliated with the Mayo Clinic and is in the second year of their residency program.
It has been mention that Rocky is looking into a med school but I suspect it is too small and under funded to do so. However Rocky seems to be the favorite among the social elite in Billings so who knows.
I do think there are opportunities for new medical programs at the U. I think my pick would be Optometry since I know a lot of local practitioners in this area have attended Pacific University in Oregon and they are not shy on tuition.

Total employment at both St V.'s and Billings Clinic exceeds 8,000. Both facilities are within walking distance of each other as well as MSUB and the Medical Corridor has the majority of the provider offices. Billings clinic is affiliated with the Mayo Clinic and has a residency program. RMC has a Physicians Assistant program. City College has many health care programs in nursing and cort. Both hospitals have satellite hospitals such as Columbus, Red Lodge, Miles City, Livingston etc.
Some of the resident physicians also practice out of state at facilities such as the Mayo Clinic on a weekly basis. The community strongly supports the health care providers.

I have seen two posters now state definitively that Billings is the place for a med school and state that Billings has better medical services than every other town in the state. I am not arguing, because I don't have any metric on which to do so, but I am curious as to why people are so certain Billings is so much better than Missoula in the medical field? are there metrics anywhere that judge this, or is it opinions that would likely be clouded by those who have only experienced one or the other?

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Sorry my post is out of order in its response.

 

[tnt]

Keep in mind Missoula and UM also have a pretty extensive residency program already. BTW is community not owned by Billings Clinic or at least the same outfit in TN that owns the Billings Clinic

Money shouldn't be problem I f UM did want to start a med school there is still millions in trust from the sale of community medical center that have to be used for health enhancement. I would think a medical school would apply.

 

[signedbewildered]

Juneau wants the job.

Please no.

 

[UMcheer2000]

Juneau wants the job.

Please no.

Hearing different things about her.

Thoughts?

 

[signedbewildered]

Juneau wants the job.

Please no.

Hearing different things about her.

Thoughts?

In my OPINION, to simplify things, we need to go the other direction. Her leadership would be similar to Engstroms. She has too big of a heart too little business experience to pull this institution out of its tailspin.

The things she would want won't be the things that get our enrollment back to where it should be. They might be fun, they might be needed somewhere, but not here.

 

[UMGriz75]

In my OPINION, to simplify things, we need to go the other direction. Her leadership would be similar to Engstroms. She has too big of a heart too little business experience to pull this institution out of its tailspin.

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

 

[signedbewildered]

In my OPINION, to simplify things, we need to go the other direction. Her leadership would be similar to Engstroms. She has too big of a heart too little business experience to pull this institution out of its tailspin.

She has absolutely no background for a doctorate level research university; i mean, NONE. Her two DUIs might only be problematic, but at this point, fresh off a failed political campaign, the optics of her partisanship would look too much like a political sinecture, not a professional appointment.

Well said. I honestly didn't know about the DUIs. She doesn't stand a chance.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Alright, alright, alright. Enough of the emails, phone calls and PM's.

I'll take the damned job.

Can you kick ?

....ass and take names, yes. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Grizzoola]

I think it's critical to stop the drain of Liberal Arts and Business School students to Bozeman. 75 produced an interesting analysis that showed most of the decline in Liberal Arts and Business students was very nearly perfectly offset by gains in enrollment in these areas in Bozeman.

New programs are important, but I think the quicker fix is to restore what is at UM already.

Isn't it ridiculous that MT offers B.A. degrees in business and education, to state two examples, at six institutions, for the size of its population? Consolidation needs to be made to cut costs of duplication at these schools. Let only UM, for example, offer the B.A. in business and education; Bozeman is ok w/ engineering & architecture, etc. This state is 4-yr. institution-heavy.

 

['68griz]

Interestingly enough, 2 years ago I went through some of the recruiting process with my youngest son and am able to compare the process of both schools. I was very impressed with the entire process at MSU. The students that were giving the campus tour were engaged, organized, friendly and very strong supporters of MSU much to my disappointment. In sharp contrast I found the students doing tours at U of M to be disinterested and put-off by having to complete tours that had been scheduled for over a month in advance. At the time I wrote a note to the university describing what I had witnessed and was hoping it was not a true reflection of the process at the U of M. Apparently it was not...

My daughter graduated from Sentinel in Missoula in 1998, in the top 3% of her class. She received information packets from nearly 200 colleges, received countless phone calls and personal letters, and had scholarship offers from half a dozen colleges from west to east coast, including a couple to which she never even applied. UM sent her, perhaps, three little pamphlets, nothing more, over a period of two years. Despite having grown up here and the fact that both her parents are UM alums, she would never have considered going to UM because, as she observed at the time, "they really don't give a damn about me." UM's recruiting problems existed long before Engstrom arrived but, for certain, he did NOTHING to fix the situation.

 

[UMGriz75]

My daughter graduated from Sentinel in Missoula in 1998, in the top 3% of her class. She received information packets from nearly 200 colleges, received countless phone calls and personal letters, and had scholarship offers from half a dozen colleges from west to east coast, including a couple to which she never even applied. UM sent her, perhaps, three little pamphlets, nothing more, over a period of two years.

I generally have 2-3 student athletes in residence, and their mail usually follows them from home. Over the years, MSU pamphlets, still following the students even after the start of their freshman year, are generally on the kitchen table. Haven't seen a UM pamphlet. Ever. Not one. MSU pamphlets went out to the kids and the buyers at the 4-H stock sale at the Missoula County fair these past three years.

 

[UMGriz75]

Kaimin Editorial in October:

Enrollment is not a performance metric in the Montana University System, said Kevin McRae, who is the deputy commissioner for communications and human resources in Montana’s Office of the Commissioner of Higher Education. Administrators work on year-to-year contracts and undergo annual evaluations, McRae said.

“Enrollment is not the goal or the measure or the outcome,” McRae said. It is only one presidential responsibility of many.

Engstrom said it is fair to partially judge his performance on enrollment, as it is his responsibility to reverse the downward trend, but meeting the University’s strategic plan goals is also important.

“An institution is measured by outcomes and excellence in a lot of different areas, and enrollment isn’t the only factor that’s important to an institution,” Engstrom said. “So people will judge me the way they want to judge me.”

And yet, enrollment essentially dictates UM’s budget each year. Ninety percent of state funding is allocated based on enrollment numbers. The other 10 percent is based on performance metrics like retention and graduation rates. McRae also said presidents are evaluated on their ability to manage the budget, something he said Engstrom excels in. In fact, the Montana Associated Students awarded Engstrom Administrator of the Year for his efforts to realign UM’s budget with dropping enrollment last year.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/should-president-royce-engstrom-be-held-responsible-for-um-s/article_e60f24c0-901b-11e6-9ab1-63da79318350.html

But then, just six weeks later, McRae is raking Engstrom for not cutting faculty quick enough. Two weeks after that ... out!

 

[UMGriz75]

But wouldn't RE have retreat rights as an internal hire? Is it possible he could "retreat" to his previous position as chancellor (which is open) or at very least as a chemistry prof (I believe he had tenure) If they chose not to have him in either of those positions wouldn't they have to pay him until mandatory retirement age? I'm not saying he would do it but I am curious.....

At UM, Engstrom holds the rank of a fully-tenured Professor of Chemistry.