Emphasis on recruiting Montana first hurting recruiting.?

[grizfnz]

The real irony of this is neither of them should be getting much attention because they could almost certainly pull a better player at Safety from California, Arizona, or Texas. I get wanting to have the local kids on the team. But you can get better athletes and win, or you can fill your team full JAGs from Montana and hope they develop into great players. Look at a team like Oregon, who also plays in a state that also doesn't traditionally produce a bunch of guys that can play at power 5 level. They have 21 players on their roster from the state of Oregon, but only three of them are on scholarship. They go all over the place to get the athletes they need to be competitive. Absolutely no reason the Grizz staff should be sacrificing wins so they can fill the team up with a bunch of kids from Montana. Once upon a time that philosophy might have worked, but it doesn't anymore. Much like they best player should always start, the better player should always be recruited.

Montana State's starting safety is on a top 3 team that beat another top 10 team 40 to 0 last weekend. He's started for 3 years and played in an NC game and a couple semifinals.

Just for clarification: Ortt was ineligible for the championship game and missed an additional 5 or 6 games last season due to failing a PED test taken after the semifinal win over SDSU in 2021.

 

[Lord Vigo]

I don't know whether this is Hauck's recruiting process or not, but if it was you would think that he would be winning the in-state recruiting battle, and he definitively is not. So if he were to actually be putting off good out-of-state recruits in favor of Montana kids, and then still coming in 2nd place in terms of in-state talent... that would truly be a failure.

What I've heard from kids who have gotten recruited by both schools is that UM presents itself as a place where kids should want to be and if they don't, it's not for them. I understand that approach. I think Hauck wants to avoid overly self-involved players who would put their individual success above that of the program. That's an admirable ambition. But my (pure) speculation is that the approach goes too far and makes guys feel unwanted.

 

[GrizRealist]

I don't know whether this is Hauck's recruiting process or not, but if it was you would think that he would be winning the in-state recruiting battle, and he definitively is not. So if he were to actually be putting off good out-of-state recruits in favor of Montana kids, and then still coming in 2nd place in terms of in-state talent... that would truly be a failure.

What I've heard from kids who have gotten recruited by both schools is that UM presents itself as a place where kids should want to be and if they don't, it's not for them. I understand that approach. I think Hauck wants to avoid overly self-involved players who would put their individual success above that of the program. That's an admirable ambition. But my (pure) speculation is that the approach goes too far and makes guys feel unwanted.

This recruiting method is what took down Jimmy Lake at Washington. Their "OKG" (Our Kinda Guy) method of recruiting was a disaster. They gave out very few offers and basically told kids if you get one your special. Big time backfire.

 

[bgbigdog]

What you have is likely your umpteenth new screen name. Your alter ego, third and forever pissing and moaning over Hauck, shared that same story. By the way, are we talking about the same kid who was suspended for PEDs or the kid whose father actually played at Montana and more than likely has a beef with the way his kid was treated? Because there's only one other Missoula kid not named Crews associated with the team from (Sentinel). Somehow I was surprised you weren't able to work "national search" into this post.

Kids should go where they are wanted which, unfortunately, isn't always where they want. I think if you look back at some of the threads, what you'll find, as I did when the scholarship information was finally explained to me, is that it's all about the money and how they are able to finance things when they slot a kid from in or out of state. After looking at the bozeman roster, I can see why there would be some questions given the number of kids they have from California and Texas. And finally Ray, I think your friend's kid will have a much more productive college career if as a DE, he goes to a place where they do more than eat blocks. We're long past the days of their relevance for anything else in playing defense. Imagine what it might have been like for a Holmes, Wagemann, or Bierman if that's all they were asked to do.

You can name call till the cows come home, but it doesn't change the story. I won't embarrass the kid, nor his family by revealing his name. No, this kid was never suspended for PEDs, nor did his father ever play college football.

You are desperate to try to can a true story, but you are totally off-base.

I can also add that I heard a similar story from a guy from Florence about the difference in how a stud player from there was recruited by the Griz and the Cats. Ignore it all you want, but the answer is seen on the playing field every Saturday.

Project much? I just read you the number of players from Missoula Sentinel that are on the bozeman roster or committed to the team in the season to follow. Ortt is the only one who is making a difference all day right now and he was the one who was suspended for PED's. That's all common knowledge. This isn't the court system or waiting for the media in bozeman to figure something out and bring it to your attention. Your imaginary player interaction with a parent is just that. And what's really sad is you feel like you need to find another screen name, or ten, to make your case for hating Hauck. Everyone gets that.

Right now, I see that bozeman football is head and shoulders above Montana. And it's Haucks fault. I don't need to find a story to share under different names that never happened. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

 

[OrgonGriz]

I think times have evolved and it’s become clear that winning with mainly MT kids just isn’t going to cut it. Did it work years ago? Sure seemed to. But that just not the case now.
I think UM just needs to offer the best recruit for the position. If it happens to be a MT kid great. Don’t get me wrong handbag some MT kids in the roster is important to project the MT loyalty and to instill how important the success of the program is to the people of the state!
But to put too talent on the back burner recruiting to just fill the spot with a MT kid doesn’t cut it anymore.
We have one of the top facilities at this level if not the top! We have an amazing fan base and football culture. One would think top talent (at this level) would love to play in Missoula! Yet it seems that just about every BSC team is out recruiting and developing players. Why is that? It can only be coaching. The longer the Griz slide goes, the harder it may be to get too recruits. Top facilities and fans base or not.
We are still in that solid win loss record. But a couple seasons of sub 500 seasons may damage that even more.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think times have evolved and it’s become clear that winning with mainly MT kids just isn’t going to cut it. Did it work years ago? Sure seemed to. But that just not the case now.
I think UM just needs to offer the best recruit for the position. If it happens to be a MT kid great. Don’t get me wrong handbag some MT kids in the roster is important to project the MT loyalty and to instill how important the success of the program is to the people of the state!
But to put too talent on the back burner recruiting to just fill the spot with a MT kid doesn’t cut it anymore.
We have one of the top facilities at this level if not the top! We have an amazing fan base and football culture. One would think top talent (at this level) would love to play in Missoula! Yet it seems that just about every BSC team is out recruiting and developing players. Why is that? It can only be coaching. The longer the Griz slide goes, the harder it may be to get too recruits. Top facilities and fans base or not.
We are still in that solid win loss record. But a couple seasons of sub 500 seasons may damage that even more.

How many Montana kids are starting along that vaunted OL?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

This is a HUGE factor. However, in an atmosphere where the portal is always beckoning you have to make kids feel wanted and connected. UM is losing the commitment battle because of Hauck’s “you’re lucky to be here” approach.

 

[Yukon]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

Didn't Idaho do that for the quick turnaround? I know Colorado did.

 

[GrizRealist]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

The other part about recruiting and the transfer portal in todays environment is cutting dead weight and processing kids out of the program. All the big schools do it, and its needed in order maintain a talented roster that has depth. You dont straight cut kids, but coaches should be having conversation with kids if they have not cracked the two deep by their third Spring Ball in the program that it might be better for them to move on to a program where they will have a better chance of getting playing time. Its the way of the world now and its how schools continually build and upgrade their roster. Hauck of course won't do this because he's "old school," but its what needs to happen every year. Roster management is critical.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

We have to. Probably everyone has read my take on this, but I repeat my admittedly radical (in every sense of the word) ideas:

1. Farm/Feeder system.
Work in concert with FBS programs. Example: U$C has a true frosh who was the #1 ranked QB recruit (ESPN) who is third on the depth chart behind the 2022 Heisman Trophy winner and another dude. He has 1 completion and 3 attempts on the season. He would have been the easy starter for the Griz in every game this season getting valuable playing time. Then, we would hand him off to U$C after this year or his second year. U$C says, "Thanks, we'll pay for his scholarship to UM in exchange for you getting him game reps."

If we want to stay FCS, we could become the AAA affiliate for one or more FBS programs. The limiting factors are System and Injury Risk. We would have to run the same system as, and follow directions from, the team(s) in the Big Show. No, I don't think we'd ever get players like the one mentioned above, but a lineman, linebacker, safety, etc.? Maybe. I also don't think UM's staff would ever go for it. Probably also violates NCAA rules, but who knows nowadays?

2. Sell the Portal.
Work in concert with FBS programs through the player. Get guys who were overlooked, or maybe want early playing time, and sell them on the fact that you've put X number of players into Y FBS programs. Coach Prime has come out and said that nobody likes to recruit out of high school anymore because not many are ready to go right away in FBS ball. If you develop a relationship with one or more FBS programs, you can use your placement of players in those programs via the portal as a recruiting tool. In my mind, we are only using the portal to our advantage in one direction. Top prep programs have been recruiting this way for years. "Hey, parent, have your kid come to Mater Dei (the good one), we're a pipeline to U$C." It's true and it works. Matt Leinhart, Matt Barkley, J.T. Daniels, etc.

Finally, I believe #2 could have a really good effect on the recruitment of the rare in-state unicorns who have FBS offers. "Oh, you have an offer from Utah? I know the coaches and have put several players in that program via the portal. Come to UM, get more game reps than you would there in your first two years, and you'll be ready to contribUTE (haha) right away when you move up." Plus, with the portal, it's not like the FBS coaches will forget about the kid.

Even if any of this works out 15% of the time, we'd be better off. Just my thoughts.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

The other part about recruiting and the transfer portal in todays environment is cutting dead weight and processing kids out of the program. All the big schools do it, and its needed in order maintain a talented roster that has depth. You dont straight cut kids, but coaches should be having conversation with kids if they have not cracked the two deep by their third Spring Ball in the program that it might be better for them to move on to a program where they will have a better chance of getting playing time. Its the way of the world now and its how schools continually build and upgrade their roster. Hauck of course won't do this because he's "old school," but its what needs to happen every year. Roster management is critical.

Great point, and I believe a very critical flip-side to what I posted above.

 

[PaytonIsADickMod]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

The other part about recruiting and the transfer portal in todays environment is cutting dead weight and processing kids out of the program. All the big schools do it, and its needed in order maintain a talented roster that has depth. You dont straight cut kids, but coaches should be having conversation with kids if they have not cracked the two deep by their third Spring Ball in the program that it might be better for them to move on to a program where they will have a better chance of getting playing time. Its the way of the world now and its how schools continually build and upgrade their roster. Hauck of course won't do this because he's "old school," but its what needs to happen every year. Roster management is critical.

I know for a fact that bobby and his coaches meet with every player after the season to evaluate where that player stands on the team. I also know that they strongly encourage players who they don't think will be able to compete to transfer, or enter the portal. All coaches do this.

 

[PaytonIsADickMod]

People are skirting around the real issue: the transfer portal. It’s totally changed the game overnight. Can we adapt?

Didn't Idaho do that for the quick turnaround? I know Colorado did.

Prime threw a whole boat-load of money at players to transfer to Colorado. How good is our NIL program, because that is how you recruit the better portal players. Recruiting is a different ball game today.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

All of the above are excellent points, and none of these points bodes well for Montana kids just trying to walk on or get a partial scholarship.

 

[Spanky2]

How many FBS caliber Montana kid recruits annually? 5-6.
How many FCS caliber Montana kid recruits annually? Maybe 10.
Currently Montana has 47 Montana kids on the roster (last time I counted).

 

[PaytonIsADickMod]

So here is my question: why is it that everyone is able to recruit big D linemen EXCEPT Montana? I guess it’s harder when only 1 plays at a time.

That, in unto itself is an impediment to recruiting. Not only are we schematically unable to defend the run, but we are schematically unable to recruit because of it. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. What lineman in their right mind would come here if they couldn’t see the field because there is only one guy playing? What D End will come if the selling point is “your job is to eat blocks, not get after it?”

Good point, but few good D-linemen want to play in a 3-3-5 defense, where their primary responsibility is to eat blocks. I can not understand Bobby's infatuation with the 3-3-5. The current popular offensive strategy in college football is to be multiple, and feature a strong running game, instead of the air-raid offenses which used to be in vogue. Look at the offenses run by the best teams in the conference....... MSU, Idaho, Sac. State. The 3-3-5 defense plays right into their hands. They can't wait to play against it.

 

[GrizRealist]

The other part about recruiting and the transfer portal in todays environment is cutting dead weight and processing kids out of the program. All the big schools do it, and its needed in order maintain a talented roster that has depth. You dont straight cut kids, but coaches should be having conversation with kids if they have not cracked the two deep by their third Spring Ball in the program that it might be better for them to move on to a program where they will have a better chance of getting playing time. Its the way of the world now and its how schools continually build and upgrade their roster. Hauck of course won't do this because he's "old school," but its what needs to happen every year. Roster management is critical.

I know for a fact that bobby and his coaches meet with every player after the season to evaluate where that player stands on the team. I also know that they strongly encourage players who they don't think will be able to compete to transfer, or enter the portal. All coaches do this.

He needs to start dropping bigger hints then, because we have a ton of dead weight. You watch FBS schools purge 20-30 players at a time and then bring in a bunch of transfers to fill those holes. No reason UM can't do it too.

Bobby just does not seem super willing to put in the effort necessary recruiting and managing the roster that is required to compete in todays world of college football. Recruiting almost never stops. It's 24/7/365. That's the way it works now and it just doesn't seem like he is willing to play that game. It seems like he believes getting a scholarship and playing at Montana is so much of a privilege that he shouldn't have to put in that type of effort. News flash, kids want to play for good football teams. You can't just ride past success from 15-20 years ago and facilities and expect to get the best recruits. Not how the game is played. If he is not let go, he needs to get off his ass and spend time recruiting outside the state of Montana.

 

[PaytonIsADickMod]

I know for a fact that bobby and his coaches meet with every player after the season to evaluate where that player stands on the team. I also know that they strongly encourage players who they don't think will be able to compete to transfer, or enter the portal. All coaches do this.

He needs to start dropping bigger hints then, because we have a ton of dead weight. You watch FBS schools purge 20-30 players at a time and then bring in a bunch of transfers to fill those holes. No reason UM can't do it too.

Bobby just does not seem super willing to put in the effort necessary recruiting and managing the roster that is required to compete in todays world of college football. Recruiting almost never stops. It's 24/7/365. That's the way it works now and it just doesn't seem like he is willing to play that game. It seems like he believes getting a scholarship and playing at Montana is so much of a privilege that he shouldn't have to put in that type of effort. News flash, kids want to play for good football teams. You can't just ride past success from 15-20 years ago and facilities and expect to get the best recruits. Not how the game is played. If he is not let go, he needs to get off his ass and spend time recruiting outside the state of Montana.

Or perhaps he is just retired in place, as many think

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

How many FBS caliber Montana kid recruits annually? 5-6.
How many FCS caliber Montana kid recruits annually? Maybe 10.
Currently Montana has 47 Montana kids on the roster (last time I counted).

MSU has 44?