Eastern Washington next up.

[zengriz]

...all the conversations...
...especially after a loss...
...are about fundamentals...

.... :shock: ...

 

[citygriz]

fundamentals, yes, but also mental attitude, and energy. if the team felt as deflated as i did over the sac state debacle, it's not surprising they were flat to start this game. we lost two big pre-season games we should have won, boise and cal, but back then you could say, "well, ya, but it wasn't conference, wait'll we get to conference." but sac state was conference, critical conference at that, and we just flat blew it. our energy level and confidence would have been a lot higher had we won that game.

 

[mtgrizrule]

fundamentals, yes, but also mental attitude, and energy. if the team felt as deflated as i did over the sac state debacle, it's not surprising they were flat to start this game. we lost two big pre-season games we should have won, boise and cal, but back then you could say, "well, ya, but it wasn't conference, wait'll we get to conference." but sac state was conference, critical conference at that, and we just flat blew it. our energy level and confidence would have been a lot higher had we won that game.

The problem is, the offense starts slow most games. It usually takes 5 to 10 minutes into the game before the offense has consistency. I can see that for the 1st month or 2 of a season, due to experimenting with the line up. However, Travis has stuck with a starting 5 for over a month now. The players know their roles. There is no logical explanation for consistently starting slow offensively.

The only thing I can think of is have Gregory and Dunn attack the rim from the start of each game, and run more clear out plays. Another option would be more pressure defensively to start the game, but that is awfully risky. Something has to be found that will create better starts to games.

 

[UMGriz75]

UM is a good, fast passing team. However, Travis is trying to make the "uptempo offense" into something that is going a mite too fast and that is what is resulting in far too many turnovers ... and perhaps fouls as well. Everyone likes the sound of "uptempo offense," but this team is a fast team anyway and trying to speed it up takes it just a hair beyond their ball control ability. Had the Griz been a little more patient last night, they would have won this game.

The "slow starts" on the other hand are something else again, and oddly characteristic of this team this year, but these games still end up 2-5 point games, losing by other factors.

 

[zengriz]

...slow starts negated by quick timeouts...
...ala wayne tinkle..grab the clip board...
...draw up a play..raise your voice maybe...

... ...

 

[UMGriz75]

Defensively, this is still the number one team, for good reason. Gregory could score no points at all on offense, and still be worth 10-15 points to the game. Same for Breunig and Weisner. They are intense very focused, physical defenders. Close behind are Krslovic, Gfeller and Bradshaw.

The weak spot is Dunn. It's a big weak spot. For as valuable as he is on offense, he is an open-door, engraved invitation on defense. For every point he makes, he loses two. He's a tough call for a coach.

Kemp? There's a lot of talent there, but it can't seem to play with this team.

 

[UMGriz75]

Offensively, last night really showed a confident Griz team on 3 pointers. 13/24 for 54% compared to 11/24, 46% for EWU. It seemed like EWU was putting them in at will, but the Griz margin was substantial. Of course, EWU did not have their lead guy who leads their team in 3 ptrs.

Weak on free throws recently, last night Griz shot a terrific 12/13, 92%. EWU, 14/20, 70%.

Griz lost on overall field goals, 22/48 for 46%, EWU 25/49, 51%.

We outrebounded EWU, 28-25. EWU has been averaging 34 rebounds per game.

Turnovers, 16 UM to 11 EWU, about half of those turnovers turned into EWU points. Griz, not so successful at converting. EWU averages 11 turnovers per game.

Good news seems to be that Mike Weisner is back to where he was before his injury. Gfeller, with 14 points and 4 rebounds is becoming a solid team workhorse.

Lost this one on fouls and turnovers. Both ball control and body control are weak spots resulting from trying to do too much too fast.

 

[SDHornet]

look at the four Suck State fans coming out of the woodwork now that Suck State basketball is on it's Haley's Comet-like frequency of relevancy in the BSC.

Says the Idalol alum.

 

[SDHornet]

So if Sac State doesn't put a big priority on sports, where do they put their money/emphasis?

Good comments from GrizLA about the 2 systems. Apples and oranges between the CSUs and UCs. The CSU as a whole has to support a lot more students but receives less funding than the UC system. It is what it is.

The athletic facilities aren’t there because the money isn’t. State funds can’t be used on athletic facilities unless approved by student vote (which is then a student fee). But to say athletics isn’t a priority isn’t exactly correct (about a $20M budget supporting 21 programs), it just isn’t the top priority and nor should they be. Sac State has about 35 conference championships since 2007, we’ve been doing plenty of things right; unfortunately it hasn’t carried over into FB and hoops (at least prior to this year).

Sac State has a good nursing program, and a good business program (probably others but that is what I hear trumpeted the most). Personally the ROI on my Sac State engineering degree has been astronomical.

 

[SDHornet]

Huge win EWU. Statement win considering they didn’t have Harvey. Very impressive. :thumb: :clap:

 

[mtgrizrule]

Huge win EWU. Statement win considering they didn’t have Harvey. Very impressive. :thumb: :clap:

I'm not sure who has or has not watched EWU play more than a few time this year. If you have not, you should go watch a few games on bigskytv with Harvey. Then watch the GRIZ/EWU game, then tell me which offense is more impressive overall? Without Harvey, EWU moved the ball well and all the players were ready for the ball. With Harvey, the ball stops often, and the team often watches him work. EWU also did not force shots. With Harvey, he forces a few shots to get his. I hope for the sake of the EWU team, when he returns he will sacrifice his numbers.

If he can sacrifice his numbers, EWU will be a lot better. Harvey is a great scorer. In my opinion, EWU plays much better team ball without Harvey. Harvey needs to buy more into that. His being able to take over a game with scoring, should only be used when that is needed, and his team is struggling or they need a clutch basket. Harvey being injured could turn out to be a huge benefit for the team upon his return. That EWU team I saw against the GRIZ was damn good, without Harvey.

Harvey being a dynamic scorer is way over rated when it comes to team basketball.

 

[marceagfan5]

Huge win EWU. Statement win considering they didn’t have Harvey. Very impressive. :thumb: :clap:

I'm not sure who has or has not watched EWU play more than a few time this year. If you have not, you should go watch a few games on bigskytv with Harvey. Then watch the GRIZ/EWU game, then tell me which offense is more impressive overall? Without Harvey, EWU moved the ball well and all the players were ready for the ball. With Harvey, the ball stops often, and the team often watches him work. EWU also did not force shots. With Harvey, he forces a few shots to get his. I hope for the sake of the EWU team, when he returns he will sacrifice his numbers.

If he can sacrifice his numbers, EWU will be a lot better. Harvey is a great scorer. In my opinion, EWU plays much better team ball without Harvey. Harvey needs to buy more into that. His being able to take over a game with scoring, should only be used when that is needed, and his team is struggling or they need a clutch basket. Harvey being injured could turn out to be a huge benefit for the team upon his return. That EWU team I saw against the GRIZ was damn good, without Harvey.

Harvey being a dynamic scorer is way over rated when it comes to team basketball.

Harvey shoots better than 50% from the field and almost 50% (I believe 48%) from the 3. If he is throwing up a bunch of junk and not shooting a high percentage than yes, but he's not really a volume shooter, hell, he only averages 14 attempts per game making his efficiency insanely high.

Eastern has lost only 5 games with Harvey in the lineup. All 5 on the road, 2 of them to top 25 teams, two others on the back end of 5 straight on the road, and at Sac without Jois. Eastern is a much better team with Harvey on the floor. You can't say, because they beat the Griz last night without Harvey that they are better. Eastern was held to well below their average in points and let UM shoot 13/24 from downtown last night.

Not a chance Eastern is 17-5 without Harvey this year.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Huge win EWU. Statement win considering they didn’t have Harvey. Very impressive. :thumb: :clap:

I'm not sure who has or has not watched EWU play more than a few time this year. If you have not, you should go watch a few games on bigskytv with Harvey. Then watch the GRIZ/EWU game, then tell me which offense is more impressive overall? Without Harvey, EWU moved the ball well and all the players were ready for the ball. With Harvey, the ball stops often, and the team often watches him work. EWU also did not force shots. With Harvey, he forces a few shots to get his. I hope for the sake of the EWU team, when he returns he will sacrifice his numbers.

If he can sacrifice his numbers, EWU will be a lot better. Harvey is a great scorer. In my opinion, EWU plays much better team ball without Harvey. Harvey needs to buy more into that. His being able to take over a game with scoring, should only be used when that is needed, and his team is struggling or they need a clutch basket. Harvey being injured could turn out to be a huge benefit for the team upon his return. That EWU team I saw against the GRIZ was damn good, without Harvey.

Harvey being a dynamic scorer is way over rated when it comes to team basketball.

Harvey shoots better than 50% from the field and almost 50% (I believe 48%) from the 3. If he is throwing up a bunch of junk and not shooting a high percentage than yes, but he's not really a volume shooter, hell, he only averages 14 attempts per game making his efficiency insanely high.

Eastern has lost only 5 games with Harvey in the lineup. All 5 on the road, 2 of them to top 25 teams, two others on the back end of 5 straight on the road, and at Sac without Jois. Eastern is a much better team with Harvey on the floor. You can't say, because they beat the Griz last night without Harvey that they are better. Eastern was held to well below their average in points and let UM shoot 13/24 from downtown last night.

Not a chance Eastern is 17-5 without Harvey this year.

You would know better than I would. I have watched 3 EWU games this season and a handful last season. All I know is I remember seeing a few forced shots each time I saw Harvey play. Even Travis commented in the post game that EWU moved the ball better without Harvey. He felt with him, they watched him too often. Without him, the other players were more ready to score. Then again, I was very impressed with Brandon as a complete player and the intangibles that Jois brings to the team. Overall, I feel EWU would have more difficulty replacing what Brandon and Jois bring to the team than what Harvey brings to the team.

Maybe Harvey is over rated, or could it be Brandon and Jois are under rated? Usually scorers get a little too much recognition. Either way, EWU has 3 great players. In my opinion the best 3 man combination in the conference. Montana has 2 great players, unfortunately Gregory's offense has been hit or miss this season. Breunig is very consistent, even with a great defensive effort by EWU, he still managed to get a double double.

Hate to say it, but if EWU can continue playing that efficiently offensively, they are the team to beat in the conference this season. I was much more impressed with them than Sac State. Despite the struggles of Weber State so far this season, I always respect them in men's basketball. Idaho, NAU, and UNC are also tough teams. Like the GRIZ, they are inconsistent this season too .

 

[marceagfan5]

Huge win EWU. Statement win considering they didn’t have Harvey. Very impressive. :thumb: :clap:

I'm not sure who has or has not watched EWU play more than a few time this year. If you have not, you should go watch a few games on bigskytv with Harvey. Then watch the GRIZ/EWU game, then tell me which offense is more impressive overall? Without Harvey, EWU moved the ball well and all the players were ready for the ball. With Harvey, the ball stops often, and the team often watches him work. EWU also did not force shots. With Harvey, he forces a few shots to get his. I hope for the sake of the EWU team, when he returns he will sacrifice his numbers.

If he can sacrifice his numbers, EWU will be a lot better. Harvey is a great scorer. In my opinion, EWU plays much better team ball without Harvey. Harvey needs to buy more into that. His being able to take over a game with scoring, should only be used when that is needed, and his team is struggling or they need a clutch basket. Harvey being injured could turn out to be a huge benefit for the team upon his return. That EWU team I saw against the GRIZ was damn good, without Harvey.

Harvey being a dynamic scorer is way over rated when it comes to team basketball.

Harvey shoots better than 50% from the field and almost 50% (I believe 48%) from the 3. If he is throwing up a bunch of junk and not shooting a high percentage than yes, but he's not really a volume shooter, hell, he only averages 14 attempts per game making his efficiency insanely high.

Eastern has lost only 5 games with Harvey in the lineup. All 5 on the road, 2 of them to top 25 teams, two others on the back end of 5 straight on the road, and at Sac without Jois. Eastern is a much better team with Harvey on the floor. You can't say, because they beat the Griz last night without Harvey that they are better. Eastern was held to well below their average in points and let UM shoot 13/24 from downtown last night.

Not a chance Eastern is 17-5 without Harvey this year.

You would know better than I would. I have watched 3 EWU games this season and a handful last season. All I know is I remember seeing a few forced shots each time I saw Harvey play. Even Travis commented in the post game that EWU moved the ball better without Harvey. He felt with him, they watched him too often. Without him, the other players were more ready to score. Then again, I was very impressed with Brandon as a complete player and the intangibles that Jois brings to the team. Overall, I feel EWU would have more difficulty replacing what Brandon and Jois bring to the team than what Harvey brings to the team.

Maybe Harvey is over rated, or could it be Brandon and Jois are under rated? Usually scorers get a little too much recognition. Either way, EWU has 3 great players. In my opinion the best 3 man combination in the conference. Montana has 2 great players, unfortunately Gregory's offense has been hit or miss this season. Breunig is very consistent, even with a great defensive effort by EWU, he still managed to get a double double.

Hate to say it, but if EWU can continue playing that efficiently offensively, they are the team to beat in the conference this season. I was much more impressed with them than Sac State. Despite the struggles of Weber State so far this season, I always respect them in men's basketball. Idaho, NAU, and UNC are also tough teams. Like the GRIZ, they are inconsistent this season too .

You are probably right in a way as well, Eastern probably moves the ball a lot more on O without Harvey, I just don't think they are better without him. You nailed it about Brandon, he is completely underrated, and should get a lot more attention. He's a great, great player that doesn't get the attention because of Jois/Harvey.

The Griz will be fine moving forward. Losing all the great players and a phenomenal coach over the past few years is going to cause a little hiccup, but the Griz will be just fine, they always are...Really impressed with your coaches first season, will definitely at or near the top for many years to come...

 

[Agent G]

It's looking pretty clear that teams are trying to force UM to use more than Breunig & Gregory to win games. The constant double teams on Breunig & designated player face guarding Gregory with no intent to ever leave him to help is obvious. While the last 2 games didn't turn out the way we wanted, several guys did step up & perform well.

Hopefully that will spill over into the rest of the year to the point that teams will no longer get away with worrying about two guys so much. Several guys are getting more confident & capable of making good contributions.

While it may be tough for the Griz to host the tourney, I think they have a very good chance to do well down the stretch!

 

[grizzlyjournal]

The weak spot is Dunn. It's a big weak spot. For as valuable as he is on offense, he is an open-door, engraved invitation on defense. For every point he makes, he loses two. He's a tough call for a coach.

While I agree with most of your comments regarding the Griz loss to EWU, your comment on Dunn as a weak spot is unfair and wrong. The Grizzlies have built their defensive success & numbers this year playing a "risk-taking" man defense that employs hedges and double teams along the perimeter, particularly at the tip of the key. The FRONT MAN on that defense is Mario; he's the first to attack the passing lanes and the opposing team's point guard/slasher. Frequently he gets caught in a high screen, often with another Griz defender close by who's doing the hedging or participating in the double team.

Montana has answers for that gambling defense. They usually designate another defender to provide help defense when the Griz point is sealed off by a screen. But sometimes it doesn't work. It looks like Mario (or Gregory, or whoever is point man on D) got beat badly on a back door. Sometimes that's the case, but just as often it is the helping defender that didn't react in time. This also happened against to the Griz vs. EWU on a couple of wing rotation passes into a wide-open key. The point defender got rubbed off on a high screen and the back door pass from the wing led to an uncontested layup. Good play by EWU, but I know that Griz coaches expect backside defenders to help in those cases. It's just that Eastern burned them a few times that looked pretty bad, as many back door plays can do.

I believe Mario is a solid defender, particularly on ball. He gave up quite a bit of height to Brandon, which hurt him at times (though Mario still got a couple of blocks). But Mario did the same to Brandon and scored on at least two drives where Brandon was left at the tip of the key watching as Mario drove. Mario also played a lot of help defense and took one or two charges as the help defender when another player got beat. That means he was helping on D & got the charge. It's a team defense.

I frankly like the aggressive Griz defense. I believe that -- as players get more & more comfortable with it -- we'll see more steals and breakaways. But the drawback is getting beat occasionally on back doors. It's a team issue, not one where a single player should be singled out as a "weak link." On the contrary, Griz coaches have Mario as the point defender in an aggressive, risk taking defense. That means he's probably their best perimeter defender, or one of the best two.

 

[bigforkgriz]

The weak spot is Dunn. It's a big weak spot. For as valuable as he is on offense, he is an open-door, engraved invitation on defense. For every point he makes, he loses two. He's a tough call for a coach.

While I agree with most of your comments regarding the Griz loss to EWU, your comment on Dunn as a weak spot is unfair and wrong. The Grizzlies have built their defensive success & numbers this year playing a "risk-taking" man defense that employs hedges and double teams along the perimeter, particularly at the tip of the key. The FRONT MAN on that defense is Mario; he's the first to attack the passing lanes and the opposing team's point guard/slasher. Frequently he gets caught in a high screen, often with another Griz defender close by who's doing the hedging or participating in the double team.

Montana has answers for that gambling defense. They usually designate another defender to provide help defense when the Griz point is sealed off by a screen. But sometimes it doesn't work. It looks like Mario (or Gregory, or whoever is point man on D) got beat badly on a back door. Sometimes that's the case, but just as often it is the helping defender that didn't react in time. This also happened against to the Griz vs. EWU on a couple of wing rotation passes into a wide-open key. The point defender got rubbed off on a high screen and the back door pass from the wing led to an uncontested layup. Good play by EWU, but I know that Griz coaches expect backside defenders to help in those cases. It's just that Eastern burned them a few times that looked pretty bad, as many back door plays can do.

I believe Mario is a solid defender, particularly on ball. He gave up quite a bit of height to Brandon, which hurt him at times (though Mario still got a couple of blocks). But Mario did the same to Brandon and scored on at least two drives where Brandon was left at the tip of the key watching as Mario drove. Mario also played a lot of help defense and took one or two charges as the help defender when another player got beat. That means he was helping on D & got the charge. It's a team defense.

I frankly like the aggressive Griz defense. I believe that -- as players get more & more comfortable with it -- we'll see more steals and breakaways. But the drawback is getting beat occasionally on back doors. It's a team issue, not one where a single player should be singled out as a "weak link." On the contrary, Griz coaches have Mario as the point defender in an aggressive, risk taking defense. That means he's probably their best perimeter defender, or one of the best two.

I agree with all that you said. Actually, I think Dunn is one of the better defensive players. If he has a drawback it is he doesn't take openings to score often enough. Frequently an opening to penetrate presents itself and he doesn't take it. He continues to run the offense and look for the pass. However, his 3 pt shooting against EWU was a nice surprise. He is the point guard, but almost to a fault. He should be more selfish on occasion and break from the play. I think it would also help Breunig and Gregory by taking some of the offensive load from them. Opposing defenses definitely have us (Breunig) figured out. I thought Eastern showed they are not the one man show everyone thought they were. We don't have to center our game on Breunig and Gegory.

 

[Ursa Major]

fundamentals, yes, but also mental attitude, and energy. if the team felt as deflated as i did over the sac state debacle, it's not surprising they were flat to start this game. we lost two big pre-season games we should have won, boise and cal, but back then you could say, "well, ya, but it wasn't conference, wait'll we get to conference." but sac state was conference, critical conference at that, and we just flat blew it. our energy level and confidence would have been a lot higher had we won that game.

The problem is, the offense starts slow most games. It usually takes 5 to 10 minutes into the game before the offense has consistency. I can see that for the 1st month or 2 of a season, due to experimenting with the line up. However, Travis has stuck with a starting 5 for over a month now. The players know their roles. There is no logical explanation for consistently starting slow offensively.

The only thing I can think of is have Gregory and Dunn attack the rim from the start of each game, and run more clear out plays. Another option would be more pressure defensively to start the game, but that is awfully risky. Something has to be found that will create better starts to games.

Great idea. Do something different for Christ's sake! At least for the first five minutes.