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dons game--unabridged version

citygriz

Well-known member
venue: usf hilltop gym
used to be, you'd buy your tickets in the main lobby. this time you went outside, around the corner, in the rain, to where there were two small ticket kiosks. when i saw the ticket prices, my jaw dropped: $100 courtside, $50 lower reserved center, $25 lower reserved side. the ghosts of bill russell and k.c. jones? nah. gonzaga. byu. st, mary's. wcc basketball is on the rise.
but no self-respecting ghost would hang around this joint. think high school gym with a few electronic gadgets. think helena high school. to get to their locker rooms, the players have to walk through the lobby, through a mob of fans. and when i went to the bathroom before the game, there was mathias ward, exiting. what? the toilet in the locker room is out next to the ticket kiosk? mickey mouse venue. if the warriors ever build their arena in the city, the dons will probably schedule their games there.

griz fans: where were they? more show up at a local bar for a football game than i saw last night. so what if there's more excitement, pagentry and success associated with football. don't some of them bleed maroon? can't they make it to a basketball game? i was sitting behind the montana bench, and there might have been ten fans. our cheering section consisted of one woman. i kid you not. one! the men were pretty quiet.

griz: i knew what to expect, no interior presence. but it's like somebody saying your blind date is nice but homely, until you actually see how ugly she is. this is ugly, folks. i never thought i'd be pining for the eric hutchison. but this is just one of this team's problems. they are also terrible on defense. ticky tack hand-check fouls ten feet outside the three-point line, giving up the baseline to an opponent's drive, leaving your feet, not keeping your man in front of you--you name the defensive sin, this team committed it. and when you don't have that interior defender to protect you, your deficiencies are really exposed.
more, this team right now has no character. no swagger. it will surely help to have will cherry back, cause half his game is swagger. but right now this team plays tense and tentative, looks constantly over at the the bench. you get the idea they're playing not to make mistakes. poor keron was the epitome of this. he and tinks have got it going, and it's affecting keron's game. there's nothing free-flow about it. no rip city with keron, or the team. i always say, you're better at almost anything if you're relaxed and having fun. right now, this team is not having any fun.

bill evans: bill evans was a former head coach, and is a current head coach, and when he was with us, he was basically a co-head coach. not only was he a defensive guru, but he seemed to be a calming effect on tinkle. you could see the players respected him. we miss him greatly, which leads me to...

tinks: tinks is a frustrated man right now, and it shows. he built the perfect team, only to have it eroded by defections and injury, so this is a test of character. and on that issue, based on last night's game, i'd have to give him only average marks. of course, there was that big technical foul. i was sitting with a perfect view of it. we missed a shot, a usf player chased down the rebound and clearly stepped on the baseline. the ref was right there, and didn't call it. we were down five or six at that moment, the game was still on the line, and tinks blew. was he right? yes. but his reaction also blew us right out of the game.
but more, this was pretty much his attitude toward his players the entire game. the back-and-forth between him and keron was incessant. he got into martin's face, grabbed coleman once. when you have a guy as big as tinkle roaming the sidelines, yelling and gesticulating and grimacing, and he's your COACH, you can get intimidated. even the assistant coaches seemed to be guaging his mood in every huddle. this is where evans was definitely a moderating influence. in my opinion, tinks has got to lighten up a bit. this team makes mistakes, but it also has physical deficiencies we're all going to have to live with. it is what it is.

kareem: best player on the court. fabulous court presence, big body with quicks and moves. but: why does he only play one half? he needs to play a complete game, every game. he can't get away with this at the next level--and he can play at a much higher level, possibly the nba.

gregory: i love this kid! he's my point guard, period. he's gritty, hustles, is in on almost every loose ball. he can get to the basket, makes deft passes. kid's got character, on a team right now that needs character. even when cherry returns, this kid is on the court.

ward: god love him, he was just awful last night. don't know if he just had a bad game, or has regressed. he missed point-blank shots, travelled once on a clear path to the basket, and another time on a rebound took the ball to the floor when he should have gone right back up with it. i'm sure of this: he misses selvig. we all criticized derek for not being the post man we wanted, but he was a fabulous passer, had inside moves, and opened up things for ward. but i'm guessing mathias just had a bad night. i've had a few myself.

martin: gosh, wish i could be more optimistic. as selvig proved, just because you're seven feet, you are not necessarily a post player. qvale was a post player. i could see that immediately the first time i saw him as a freshman at pacific. he made mistakes, tried to block every shot--but, the kid was a post player. martin? doesn't look like he has the body to carry a lot more weight. two years, he's likely to be another weisner--some muscle, but still thin. and i don't know that martin is a post player anyway. he might prove to be another selvig, a three or a four. post player? surprise me.

so funny, after years of watching montana basketball, and always having big stolid white kids, to see a team so quick and so athletic, but lacking any big stolid white kids. always before, usf was far more athletic than we were. not last night.

oh, one more impression. for all my many many criticisms of this team, when i looked up with three minutes left, we were in the game. this team has talent. get cherry back, and we'll still be a power in the big sky--despite the donut hole in the middle.
 
Good report Citay.

Bill Evans was a real asset to Griz basketball and to Wayne. He was the right guy at the right time and Wayne learned a lot from him. I know some ex-Griz coaches who thought Wayne had made an excellent hire with Bill. Young guys need to have a quality experienced assistant around them to help them become the best that they can be. Bill was that guy for Wayne and the rest of the staff. Now it is time for someone else on the staff to step up and replace Bill as the stabilizing influence. Some kids need to have a tough approach taken to them and others need encouragement. The key is to know which player needs what approach.

Wayne is a great relationship guy, an outstanding recruiter and understands basketball. He does not need to be berating and angry as that won't work for him as it is not his personality. Firm and disciplined yes but not angry and constantly in the players faces. Don't blame the players for what they didn't do, teach them what they should do and that takes patience. When, not if, Wayne gets over this hump he will be an even better coach than he is now.

And by the way the Griz will be fine.
 
Griz1 said:
Good report Citay.

Bill Evans was a real asset to Griz basketball and to Wayne. He was the right guy at the right time and Wayne learned a lot from him. I know some ex-Griz coaches who thought Wayne had made an excellent hire with Bill. Young guys need to have a quality experienced assistant around them to help them become the best that they can be. Bill was that guy for Wayne and the rest of the staff. Now it is time for someone else on the staff to step up and replace Bill as the stabilizing influence. Some kids need to have a tough approach taken to them and others need encouragement. The key is to know which player needs what approach.

Wayne is a great relationship guy, an outstanding recruiter and understands basketball. He does not need to be berating and angry as that won't work for him as it is not his personality. Firm and disciplined yes but not angry and constantly in the players faces. Don't blame the players for what they didn't do, teach them what they should do and that takes patience. When, not if, Wayne gets over this hump he will be an even better coach than he is now.

And by the way the Griz will be fine.

Do you know Tinkle, or know him well enough to know his personality?

How do you teach players how to improve if you don't talk to them during the game? For many things, it works better to teach during the game when it's clear what happened in the situation, instead of trying to do it later when memories are not as fresh. Or, are you just suggesting that Tinkle should use a kinder voice?
 
PlayerRep said:
Griz1 said:
Good report Citay.

Bill Evans was a real asset to Griz basketball and to Wayne. He was the right guy at the right time and Wayne learned a lot from him. I know some ex-Griz coaches who thought Wayne had made an excellent hire with Bill. Young guys need to have a quality experienced assistant around them to help them become the best that they can be. Bill was that guy for Wayne and the rest of the staff. Now it is time for someone else on the staff to step up and replace Bill as the stabilizing influence. Some kids need to have a tough approach taken to them and others need encouragement. The key is to know which player needs what approach.

Wayne is a great relationship guy, an outstanding recruiter and understands basketball. He does not need to be berating and angry as that won't work for him as it is not his personality. Firm and disciplined yes but not angry and constantly in the players faces. Don't blame the players for what they didn't do, teach them what they should do and that takes patience. When, not if, Wayne gets over this hump he will be an even better coach than he is now.

And by the way the Griz will be fine.

Do you know Tinkle, or know him well enough to know his personality?

How do you teach players how to improve if you don't talk to them during the game? For many things, it works better to teach during the game when it's clear what happened in the situation, instead of trying to do it later when memories are not as fresh. Or, are you just suggesting that Tinkle should use a kinder voice?

i have never met tinkle. but one can see he's a great guy, just from the way he interacted with griz fans before the game. i noticed he paid special attention to the kids. good for him. we're all kids, anyway.

i'm all for teaching, of course, and fully understand you need to get in a player's face every now and then. but my dominant impression last night was that there was far too much criticism from the bench, and that this team felt it, and played tight as a result. who said, "hey, let's have some fun! you only go around once, and when you're dead, you're done!" i like our kids. i don't see a single bad apple out there. hey, let's have some fun!!
 
Citay, thanks for your support and the report. Ironic, when Wayne 1st got the job, many said he needed to be harder and not so player friendly. Maybe Wayne is a little tighter now because this team is out of sort, due to youth. You do have a point, I feel is valid. I honestly see this as a better team with a quicker tempo, especially on offense with the right personnel on the court.

Keron's got a ton of talent and extremely competitive. He is his own worse enemy, when he is off. He needs to learn to do other things for his team when his offense is not there, instead of forcing contested shots. The kid can take the ball the hole at will often, which is his best offensive asset. The last 2 games he has tried getting his points, outside of the context of the offense. I am fine with a player like Keron trying to get his game back and scoring, but those attempts have to be open shots! His shot selection was outright careless and careless. At the beginning of the season, he was taking the ball to the hole, shooting open shots, and finding team mates for open shots. Of late, he has forced most everything. I can honestly see why Wayne is riding him and being hard on him.

When Will returns, I want to see what this team can do with Will, Gregory, Jamar, Henderson, and any other player, and play uptempo. This team has the talent and right players to do it. I really do not know if there is a right game style to play this year. The hole in the middle is glaring, and unfortunate. I do think we will be okay there defensively. Offensively, regardless of tempo, this team needs realize how critical ball movement and good shot selection is. It has not been there often this year.

I do agree, despite our lack of quality true bigs, this team is capable of winning the conference. I honestly believe the keys are either running teams out of the gym, or the development of Martin, Coleman, and Hutchison. Our paint defense and rebounding can and will improve. Offense, not so sure.
 
PlayerRep said:
Griz1 said:
Good report Citay.

Bill Evans was a real asset to Griz basketball and to Wayne. He was the right guy at the right time and Wayne learned a lot from him. I know some ex-Griz coaches who thought Wayne had made an excellent hire with Bill. Young guys need to have a quality experienced assistant around them to help them become the best that they can be. Bill was that guy for Wayne and the rest of the staff. Now it is time for someone else on the staff to step up and replace Bill as the stabilizing influence. Some kids need to have a tough approach taken to them and others need encouragement. The key is to know which player needs what approach.

Wayne is a great relationship guy, an outstanding recruiter and understands basketball. He does not need to be berating and angry as that won't work for him as it is not his personality. Firm and disciplined yes but not angry and constantly in the players faces. Don't blame the players for what they didn't do, teach them what they should do and that takes patience. When, not if, Wayne gets over this hump he will be an even better coach than he is now.

And by the way the Griz will be fine.

Do you know Tinkle, or know him well enough to know his personality?

How do you teach players how to improve if you don't talk to them during the game? For many things, it works better to teach during the game when it's clear what happened in the situation, instead of trying to do it later when memories are not as fresh. Or, are you just suggesting that Tinkle should use a kinder voice?

Yes I do know Wayne and his personality. I have known him and his family. I have sat down and talked with him a lot since he first showed up on campus. I have always felt, and stated, he would be a great head coach long before he ever had the opportunity.

I have never said you don't teach or talk to players during a game. I have never said that you can't get in someone's face. What I did suggest was that one has to know how the kid will react to the manner in which he was approached at the time. Some kids will tank it and some will be motivated if one is too aggressive with them. What a ridiculous assertion that you made.

I won't be getting in a debate with you and won't be involved in a name-calling contest with you either. Have a good day!!!
 
Griz1 said:
PlayerRep said:
Griz1 said:
Good report Citay.

Bill Evans was a real asset to Griz basketball and to Wayne. He was the right guy at the right time and Wayne learned a lot from him. I know some ex-Griz coaches who thought Wayne had made an excellent hire with Bill. Young guys need to have a quality experienced assistant around them to help them become the best that they can be. Bill was that guy for Wayne and the rest of the staff. Now it is time for someone else on the staff to step up and replace Bill as the stabilizing influence. Some kids need to have a tough approach taken to them and others need encouragement. The key is to know which player needs what approach.

Wayne is a great relationship guy, an outstanding recruiter and understands basketball. He does not need to be berating and angry as that won't work for him as it is not his personality. Firm and disciplined yes but not angry and constantly in the players faces. Don't blame the players for what they didn't do, teach them what they should do and that takes patience. When, not if, Wayne gets over this hump he will be an even better coach than he is now.

And by the way the Griz will be fine.

Do you know Tinkle, or know him well enough to know his personality?

How do you teach players how to improve if you don't talk to them during the game? For many things, it works better to teach during the game when it's clear what happened in the situation, instead of trying to do it later when memories are not as fresh. Or, are you just suggesting that Tinkle should use a kinder voice?

Yes I do know Wayne and his personality. I have known him and his family. I have sat down and talked with him a lot since he first showed up on campus. I have always felt, and stated, he would be a great head coach long before he ever had the opportunity.

I have never said you don't teach or talk to players during a game. I have never said that you can't get in someone's face. What I did suggest was that one has to know how the kid will react to the manner in which he was approached at the time. Some kids will tank it and some will be motivated if one is too aggressive with them. What a ridiculous assertion that you made.

I won't be getting in a debate with you and won't be involved in a name-calling contest with you either. Have a good day!!!

Okay, thanks. I don't think you know or understand Tinkle's personality, based on what you are saying.

Do you think you know more about how to coach or deal with the particular UM basketball players than Tinkle does?

I take it from your lack of response that you don't attend the games in Missoula.

You make want to look in the mirror regarding ridiculous statements. Who's name-calling? You're closer to that than I am.
 
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