Discussing transfers and dropdowns

[BWahlberg]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Bit of a blanket statement there at the end.

Were the transfers a much needed upgrade? Yes
Did we have big holes to fill at WR, DL, and CB? YES
Will this team be better because of the additions? Yes

However, the best is still 2-3 years down the road when the MANY high school kids that Stitt & co have brought in are upperclassmen. Evaluating the YOUNG players on this team will be a more accurate evaluation of how well this staff recruits and develops players.

I mostly agree with your post. But the success/failure of the drop down or transfer player isn't really the main issue. The issue is the current staff's perception of the current team's talent. Bringing outside players into your program has potential ramifications. Mainly, that you are burning scholarships on a players that have less eligibility. This is not ideal. If your talent level is up to par, a coach wouldn't want or need to bring in players that could only contribute for a couple of seasons. There is a cost/benefit analysis that needs to occur. If your starters are weak, if your up and coming players at a position are too young and inexperienced or if you have no real depth at a position, then you bring in the drop down or transfer player. Stitt is shoring up some areas IMO.

The "burning" schollies statement isn't accurate. Schollies are a year to year thing. It's not a wasted schollies to give it to a kid who's only gonna play for two years, especially when they will most likely be a contributor, if not a starter. It's more of a "waste" of a scholarship to give it to a kid who will redshirt one year, MAYBE play special teams the next year, before they finnaly get to log meaningful playing time the next year. It's seems the only reason you give these kids schollies is to keep them off someone else's roster. Now I'm not saying quit giving Fr schollies, just saying it's not a waste of a schollies to give it to a kid that will play this year.

By using the word "burning" I didn't mean to imply "wasting" a scholarship on a transfer player. If you have an immediate need to fill, then by all means use a scholarship on a transfer player. It's just not ideal to build your program by using an abundance of transfer players. If you are, then something is going wrong with your recruiting efforts.

Ok, that makes sense. Therefor, due to Stitt bringing in a new scheme offensively and defensively, Delaneys recruits being replaceable by better drop down players, and needs to fill at thinned out positions due to bad judgement calls, players leaving, and players not fitting the team chemistry that were recruited by previous regimes, there is a definite need to fill holes immediately. In two years, the only drop downs/transfers we'll see are kids that will be too good to pass up.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Add Big Willie Walden to that list.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I mostly agree with your post. But the success/failure of the drop down or transfer player isn't really the main issue. The issue is the current staff's perception of the current team's talent. Bringing outside players into your program has potential ramifications. Mainly, that you are burning scholarships on a players that have less eligibility. This is not ideal. If your talent level is up to par, a coach wouldn't want or need to bring in players that could only contribute for a couple of seasons. There is a cost/benefit analysis that needs to occur. If your starters are weak, if your up and coming players at a position are too young and inexperienced or if you have no real depth at a position, then you bring in the drop down or transfer player. Stitt is shoring up some areas IMO.

The "burning" schollies statement isn't accurate. Schollies are a year to year thing. It's not a wasted schollies to give it to a kid who's only gonna play for two years, especially when they will most likely be a contributor, if not a starter. It's more of a "waste" of a scholarship to give it to a kid who will redshirt one year, MAYBE play special teams the next year, before they finnaly get to log meaningful playing time the next year. It's seems the only reason you give these kids schollies is to keep them off someone else's roster. Now I'm not saying quit giving Fr schollies, just saying it's not a waste of a schollies to give it to a kid that will play this year.

By using the word "burning" I didn't mean to imply "wasting" a scholarship on a transfer player. If you have an immediate need to fill, then by all means use a scholarship on a transfer player. It's just not ideal to build your program by using an abundance of transfer players. If you are, then something is going wrong with your recruiting efforts.

Ok, that makes sense. Therefor, due to Stitt bringing in a new scheme offensively and defensively, Delaneys recruits being replaceable by better drop down players, and needs to fill at thinned out positions due to bad judgement calls, players leaving, and players not fitting the team chemistry that were recruited by previous regimes, there is a definite need to fill holes immediately. In two years, the only drop downs/transfers we'll see are kids that will be too good to pass up.

Yes. I also understand that an FCS school like Montana might be slightly different in their recruiting approach then a FBS program which is generally recruiting a higher level of HS player. To your point about transfers that are too good to pass up, yes an FCS teams should most always take the opportunity to upgrade a roster spot if someone unexpected falls to them. As long as there's a fit, that strategy can put a team over the top....

 

[CDAGRIZ]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

I didn't realize Heidelberger was a transfer. The more you know . . .

 

[PlayerRep]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Not Lance Spencer, Saenz, Segar, Heidelberger, Luke, to my knowledge.

 

[kemajic]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Add Big Willie Walden to that list.

And Brandon Neill

 

[CrunchGriz]

Heidelberger definitely wasn't a transfer. Some may recall the furor back then when his redshirt was burned.

 

[maroonandsilver]

Heidelberger definitely wasn't a transfer. Some may recall the furor back then when his redshirt was burned.

You are correct.

 

[GoldStandardGriz]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Add Big Willie Walden to that list.

And Brandon Neill

And Kelley Bryant, one of my favs. Tate Hancock as well.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)



Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Add Big Willie Walden to that list.

And Brandon Neill

And Kelley Bryant, one of my favs. Tate Hancock as well.

Didn't think LV was a drop down.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Heidelberger and Segars were not transfers, both played as true freshman at UM, from 2001-2004:

HEIDELBERGER:

SEASON TEAM GP REC YDS AVG YDS/G LNG TD 100+
2001 MONT.....7...1....9...9.0....1.3.....9....0...0
2002 MONT.....5...3....51..17.0..10.2....22...1...0
2003 MONT.....12..41..433..10.6..36.1...54...1.. 0
2004 MONT.....14..80..1240.15.5..88.6...69...10..5

SEGARS:

SEASON TEAM GP REC YDS AVG YDS/G LNG TD 100+
2001 MONT....11 - - - - - - -
2002 MONT....13..51..628..12.3..48.3...72...2....1
2003 MONT....12..18..192..10.7..16.0...41...0....0
2004 MONT....15..60..710..11.8..47.3...75...6....2

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Heidelberger definitely wasn't a transfer. Some may recall the furor back then when his redshirt was burned.

HEIDELBERGER:

SEASON TEAM GP REC YDS AVG YDS/G LNG TD 100+
2001 MONT.....7...1....9...9.0....1.3.....9....0...0 :shock:
2002 MONT.....5...3....51..17.0..10.2....22...1...0
2003 MONT.....12..41..433..10.6..36.1...54...1.. 0
2004 MONT.....14..80..1240.15.5..88.6...69...10..5

2005 numbers would have been

 

[grizindabox]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)



Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Add Big Willie Walden to that list.

And Brandon Neill

And Kelley Bryant, one of my favs. Tate Hancock as well.

Actually, I believe you mean Tanner.....

 

[Mousegriz]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

I didn't realize Heidelberger was a transfer. The more you know . . .

He wasn't...not sure if LV was either. Where did he transfer from?

 

[RobGriz]

There was a thread last year on the egriz plus side discussing transfers that worked out, a few posters built a pretty good list.

(this isn't my own list, I copied and pasted a lot of these, although I contributed to it)

Craig Ochs
Justin Green
Lance Spencer
Alen Saenz
Levander Segars
Jefferson Heidelberger
Joe Douglass
Travon Van
Ellis Henderson
Jamal Wilson
Jamaal Jones
Craig Chambers
Eric Allen
JD Quinn
Brent Russum
Brody McKnight
Tyrone Duncan (on the field...)
Reggie Bradshaw
Stephen Sabin
Kendrick Van Ackeren
Drew Miller
Antwon Moutra
Levi Horn
Kjelby Oiland
Erik Stoll
Van Cooper Jr
Josh Swogger (borderline I know but he lead a Lex Hilliard-less team to the Semi's)
Kris Heppner
Daniel Sullivan

Also on the current roster we've got Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Chad Chalich, Jimmy Banks, Donald Bedell, Jackson Thiebes, Robert Luke, Brandt Davidson, & Myles McKee-Osidibu who are are all on the current 2-deep (Could also add Reese Phillips). So it would seem that especially in the last decade we've had pretty good success and reliance on transfers, be it drop downs or JuCos.

Kavario Middleton

 

[Gaeilge1]

The utilization of drop downs, transfers and juco's is a tool. And, like any tool its use is only as good as the one using it. If used appropriately this tool can fill immediate needs and add much needed depth. Used inappropriately, it can be as useless as tits on a boar, (which incidentally is the correct saying).

Over the years, from Jack Swarthout on down, UM has had pretty good success with this tool. Based on early indications it looks like Coach Stitt has utilized this tool correctly in getting players who can contribute right away, but the job isn't done and only time on the field will tell.

 

[bgbigdog]

The utilization of drop downs, transfers and juco's is a tool. And, like any tool its use is only as good as the one using it. If used appropriately this tool can fill immediate needs and add much needed depth. Used inappropriately, it can be as useless as tits on a boar, (which incidentally is the correct saying).

Over the years, from Jack Swarthout on down, UM has had pretty good success with this tool. Based on early indications it looks like Coach Stitt has utilized this tool correctly in getting players who can contribute right away, but the job isn't done and only time on the field will tell.

So if I'm reading this right, these guys were all a bunch of tools. Not how I felt, fortunately.

 

[Gaeilge1]

I knew that someone was going to comment that way, just didn't know how long it would take. I even considered clarifying in the original post. For the record, tool as in the classic definition of the term, not the common slang vernacular.

 

[1bigGRIZ]

Ryan Kessman..... the best that never made it!!