Deshields?

[bigforkgriz]

I went to the Long Beach State game and was really impressed with Deshields. I also watched a game or two online earlier and thought that we really had something with his addition to the team. Does anybody have any information as to why he is no longer getting playing time.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Pretty easy answer to this one, even though I wish he were playing more. The GRIZ are on a good roll, and why mess with that? They have a found a rotation working well. I have a feeling the GRIZ will be using their depth more the next 2 games at NAU, then Weber State.

 

[bigforkgriz]

Pretty easy answer to this one, even though I wish he were playing more. The GRIZ are on a good roll, and why mess with that? They have a found a rotation working well. I have a feeling the GRIZ will be using their depth more the next 2 games at NAU, then Weber State.

This not an easy answer. It really doesn't make sense given that Long Beach State was a quality win and he played superbly. How did he fall from favor? In that game he was head and shoulders above anything I have ever seen Wood or Stockton offer. Why isn't he involved in this roll we are on? Because he was involved in good wins earlier.

 

[mtgrizrule]

I agree with you BG as for his play. It is conference play, and Tinkle is staying committed to the SR's in the close battle for playing time. I honestly feel it is that. SR's over FR. I do think the GRIZ would be better at year's end if the younger guys were seeing the minutes. We shall see.

 

[Agent G]

It appears pretty clear that Tinkle is more comfortable playing the older, more experienced guys a majority of the time. Besides the starting 5, he doesn't seem to expect the guys off the bench to do much more than give the starters a rest and he doesn't worry about some of their limitations. As mtgrizrule stated, as long as they are winning he doesn't want to rock the boat or use any conference games as a proving ground for the young guys. The older guys getting minutes know their roles and so far it's been working. Hopefully it works out down the stretch.

There is a lot of young talent on the bench that could be contributing more but it's hard to question it based on the results. He probably feels that he can manage the game better with playing guys he knows very well and he may get nervous if he has to depend too much on the younger guys at crucial moments. I seriously doubt any of us will know how good DeShields and the other freshmen will be until future seasons. Hopefully the plan works and the Griz do well in the conference and make it to the dance. If they fall short because they need the help of the younger guys who really haven't had a chance to play and gain experience, it could backfire. I hope not.

 

[bigforkgriz]

If Tinkle, as you say, actually has curtailed his playing time in a risk-management for Conference play it has been a drastic cut in time. It seems to me a bizarre conservative strategy. Deshields proved himself against Long Beach the best team we have probably played and multiple non-conference teams, but OMG he is too young to play against the vaunted Big Sky teams. The playing time dropped for Deshields I believe before conference started. I don't have any information otherwise, but I don't buy your argument. Maybe it is some part of Deshields game or attitude that Tinkle has found objectionable. The players getting playing time over him are not as good from what I saw, but I am not seeing everything. Cherry had playing time from the get-go as a freshmen. It increased gradually. Deshields had it taken away. I don't get it. I think playing time for him increases your chance of winning.

 

[BelierPeaux]

This question comes up almost every season with Tinkle and at least one player. Last year it was Autry. Tinkle usually has a decent grasp on who needs to play and when. Would I like to see Keron more? You bet. I hope he and the other young guys keep their attitudes up and hang with this team. Their time will come. (BTW, I don't think Keron's attitude is a problem at all.)

 

[Gaeilge1]

I don't think the lack of playing time for Keron and others is a function of their age or their ability. Rather, I think that Tinkle has been looking for consistency in all aspects of the game going in to conference and I think he has found pretty much what he is looking for. Coach Tinkle has a very good command of what he wants both offensively and defensively from his top 6 or 7 and based on last night's game it looks like he is there or at least awfully close.

I would think that once Coach gets the consistent play out of his top players he will be utilizing the younger guy's a whole lot more than we have seen the last month.

 

[temp]

If Tinkle, as you say, actually has curtailed his playing time in a risk-management for Conference play it has been a drastic cut in time. It seems to me a bizarre conservative strategy. Deshields proved himself against Long Beach the best team we have probably played and multiple non-conference teams, but OMG he is too young to play against the vaunted Big Sky teams. The playing time dropped for Deshields I believe before conference started. I don't have any information otherwise, but I don't buy your argument. Maybe it is some part of Deshields game or attitude that Tinkle has found objectionable. The players getting playing time over him are not as good from what I saw, but I am not seeing everything. Cherry had playing time from the get-go as a freshmen. It increased gradually. Deshields had it taken away. I don't get it. I think playing time for him increases your chance of winning.

I think your over stating the positives and failing to look at the negatives. Your right, Deshields had a couple of stellar games early on but he also had plenty of freshmen type moments, take the Oregon St game for instance where he made the same move and drive down the lane three possessions in a row and had his shot blocked all three times. Wood and Stockton may not be everything you want them to be, but the fact of the matter is that since Tinkle has shortened the bench and cut time for basically everyone but them and the starters the team has gotten better and more consistent.
With Keron I definitely don't think there is an attitude or work ethic issue, but who is to say that Woody and Stocks have not just been out playing him in practice. We just don't know.
We would all like to see the young kids play, but I would hope we all LOVE to win, and that is the bottom line.

 

[bigforkgriz]

If Tinkle, as you say, actually has curtailed his playing time in a risk-management for Conference play it has been a drastic cut in time. It seems to me a bizarre conservative strategy. Deshields proved himself against Long Beach the best team we have probably played and multiple non-conference teams, but OMG he is too young to play against the vaunted Big Sky teams. The playing time dropped for Deshields I believe before conference started. I don't have any information otherwise, but I don't buy your argument. Maybe it is some part of Deshields game or attitude that Tinkle has found objectionable. The players getting playing time over him are not as good from what I saw, but I am not seeing everything. Cherry had playing time from the get-go as a freshmen. It increased gradually. Deshields had it taken away. I don't get it. I think playing time for him increases your chance of winning.

I think your over stating the positives and failing to look at the negatives. Your right, Deshields had a couple of stellar games early on but he also had plenty of freshmen type moments, take the Oregon St game for instance where he made the same move and drive down the lane three possessions in a row and had his shot blocked all three times. Wood and Stockton may not be everything you want them to be, but the fact of the matter is that since Tinkle has shortened the bench and cut time for basically everyone but them and the starters the team has gotten better and more consistent.
With Keron I definitely don't think there is an attitude or work ethic issue, but who is to say that Woody and Stocks have not just been out playing him in practice. We just don't know.
We would all like to see the young kids play, but I would hope we all LOVE to win, and that is the bottom line.

I stated earlier that I am not seeing everything. Also in earlier post I said that I had been to the Long Beach game and watched some others online. That is why I asked for anybody with information as to why he lost playing time. What I initially received was an "easy answer" that was actually conjecture. I guess I should have asked for factual information rather than opinion. I tried to convey the idea that from what I have seen he should be playing more. I did not overstate the positive. I stated what I had seen and it wasn't negative. Your example of the Oregon State game at least is an example of his negative impact, although from what I read the whole team stunk in that game. They were also poor defensively against San Fran. Anyway, opinions backed up with examples are at least more palatable than defending Tinkle's coaching ability. I wasn't questioning it. I was asking if anyone knew why because it was puzzling.

I will say though and I have no way of proving this, I think if Deshields was given the same amount of playing time as Stockton and Wood he would have on average more points, assists, steals, and defensive stops. He might also have more turnovers. This might fit with some of the above reasoning about consistency.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Here is the link to a pretty solid thread, I started a while back. It touches on all the young guys. Believe me, you are not alone on your liking a young player, or more.
http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have worked with coach Tinkle in summer camps, and fortunate to hear Wayne talk basketball, now and then. I cannot say this is the case with every young player, and based on some observation.

Unless a young player is much better than the upperclassmen, such as Cherry, and Jamar, Tinkle usually chooses experience, over potential. Even Cherry, and Jamar were brought a long slowly in terms of other freshmen we see across the country. Qvale seen a lot of time early his freshman year, as the year progressed, Tinkle played Kyle Sharp as an undersized Center, more than Qvale.

Right now, and over the last month, it is hard to argue with the results the GRIZ have gotten. I am sure if there is a game where Stockton, and or Wood mess up, Tinkle will go with the younger guys. Despite, many of us wanting to see the younger guys, got to admit, for the most part, Stockton and Wood have done as asked, and their main role is not scoring points. Have you seen how Stockton wears down his man, he beats the guy up when boxing out, and when defending him going through picks. Stockton has to get to a lot of players, just like his uncle did.

As for Wood, his shot is actually falling of late, the few times he does shoot. He plays very good defense, especially off the ball, helps with rebounding, and gets his hands on a lot of loose balls. I have a feeling we will see more of Deshields in this long road trip to NAU, then Weber State. I would think Tinkle will have to rely more on his bench the next 2 games. We will have to throw a lot of looks at Lillard, and Bamforth, including multiple defenders. Personally, outside of Cherry, I think Deshields is the best defender to put on Lillard, on the ball at least. I do expect Stockton, Wood, and Jamar rotate on Bamforth. Lillard is likely to take anyone, but Cherry, and Deshields to school. I would even put Gregory on Lillard before Stockton, or Wood.

I know Deshields has not done anything wrong, and has a great attitude. Wayne has spoken very highly of him since his commitment to the GRIZ. I honestly think it is Experience, verses youth, and Tinkle is more comfortable with Experience, in most match ups.

Take that for what you like. In my time on EGRIZ, I have been pretty consistent in getting a good read on the GRIZ, rather it be in person, or afar. Usually it takes me until the new year to get a solid read. I am pretty confident in my read here.

 

[bigforkgriz]

Here is the link to a pretty solid thread, I started a while back. It touches on all the young guys. Believe me, you are not alone on your liking a young player, or more.
http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have worked with coach Tinkle in summer camps, and fortunate to hear Wayne talk basketball, now and then. I cannot say this is the case with every young player, and based on some observation.

Unless a young player is much better than the upperclassmen, such as Cherry, and Jamar, Tinkle usually chooses experience, over potential. Even Cherry, and Jamar were brought a long slowly in terms of other freshmen we see across the country. Qvale seen a lot of time early his freshman year, as the year progressed, Tinkle played Kyle Sharp as an undersized Center, more than Qvale.

Right now, and over the last month, it is hard to argue with the results the GRIZ have gotten. I am sure if there is a game where Stockton, and or Wood mess up, Tinkle will go with the younger guys. Despite, many of us wanting to see the younger guys, got to admit, for the most part, Stockton and Wood have done as asked, and their main role is not scoring points. Have you seen how Stockton wears down his man, he beats the guy up when boxing out, and when defending him going through picks. Stockton has to get to a lot of players, just like his uncle did.

As for Wood, his shot is actually falling of late, the few times he does shoot. He plays very good defense, especially off the ball, helps with rebounding, and gets his hands on a lot of loose balls. I have a feeling we will see more of Deshields in this long road trip to NAU, then Weber State. I would think Tinkle will have to rely more on his bench the next 2 games. We will have to throw a lot of looks at Lillard, and Bamforth, including multiple defenders. Personally, outside of Cherry, I think Deshields is the best defender to put on Lillard, on the ball at least. I do expect Stockton, Wood, and Jamar rotate on Bamforth. Lillard is likely to take anyone, but Cherry, and Deshields to school. I would even put Gregory on Lillard before Stockton, or Wood.

I know Deshields has not done anything wrong, and has a great attitude. Wayne has spoken very highly of him since his commitment to the GRIZ. I honestly think it is Experience, verses youth, and Tinkle is more comfortable with Experience, in most match ups.

Take that for what you like. In my time on EGRIZ, I have been pretty consistent in getting a good read on the GRIZ, rather it be in person, or afar. Usually it takes me until the new year to get a solid read. I am pretty confident in my read here.

There is some substance in your answer. Defense is what impressed me the most about Dehields and Wood. I have not been conscious of Stockton's defensive ability. Thanks

 

[Grizbacker1]

If Tinkle, as you say, actually has curtailed his playing time in a risk-management for Conference play it has been a drastic cut in time. It seems to me a bizarre conservative strategy. Deshields proved himself against Long Beach the best team we have probably played and multiple non-conference teams, but OMG he is too young to play against the vaunted Big Sky teams. The playing time dropped for Deshields I believe before conference started. I don't have any information otherwise, but I don't buy your argument. Maybe it is some part of Deshields game or attitude that Tinkle has found objectionable. The players getting playing time over him are not as good from what I saw, but I am not seeing everything. Cherry had playing time from the get-go as a freshmen. It increased gradually. Deshields had it taken away. I don't get it. I think playing time for him increases your chance of winning.

Tinkle has addressed this question. He is fine with Keron on the offensive end, but he has been schooled a lot on the defensive end. before you go there, yeah, I know, so has Stockton. As Al Maguire said, the best thing about a freshman is they become a sophomore. I wish he had more PT too, but I am not the coach. No one is ever satisfied, and they can all coach better with hindsight as their ally.

 

[PlayerRep]

Tinkle has complimented Stockton on his tough and good defense on various occasions, including at least once in the press.

 

[bigforkgriz]

After watching Deshields on the end of the bench in his warmups for the entire Weber game, I have to question the reasoning again. Going from a decent amount of time to none especially when Stockton and Wood provided nothing leads me to believe that there is something else for him riding the pine. Henderson was brought in and played decently in the run that was made. But he got beat a couple of times with no support defensively from Selvig as usual. Weber must of scored on about 90 percent of their possessions.

Everyone on the game thread is gushing over Weber, but our defense was reminiscent of the San Fransisco game. What would it have hurt to give Deshields a look to see if he could give us a spark. The same is true when we have been up by twenty in games, he has been demoted to very little to none in playing time. What is the reasoning for the nature of his drastic decline.

 

[GrizLA]

If Tinkle, as you say, actually has curtailed his playing time in a risk-management for Conference play it has been a drastic cut in time. It seems to me a bizarre conservative strategy. Deshields proved himself against Long Beach the best team we have probably played and multiple non-conference teams, but OMG he is too young to play against the vaunted Big Sky teams. The playing time dropped for Deshields I believe before conference started. I don't have any information otherwise, but I don't buy your argument. Maybe it is some part of Deshields game or attitude that Tinkle has found objectionable. The players getting playing time over him are not as good from what I saw, but I am not seeing everything. Cherry had playing time from the get-go as a freshmen. It increased gradually. Deshields had it taken away. I don't get it. I think playing time for him increases your chance of winning.

Tinkle has addressed this question. He is fine with Keron on the offensive end, but he has been schooled a lot on the defensive end. before you go there, yeah, I know, so has Stockton. As Al Maguire said, the best thing about a freshman is they become a sophomore. I wish he had more PT too, but I am not the coach. No one is ever satisfied, and they can all coach better with hindsight as their ally.

Stockton does, indeed, have his good nights but I watched him at WSU and Portland and mostly what I saw was basically just jumping around with excess energy. I guess it might wear out an offensive guard now and then, but it takes it toll on him after 5 minutes...that might be why, in his rare attempts to shoot, the ball falls short of the rim...he has tired himself out...But, the flurry at Weber just served to remind me of the Semi champ game in Texas...the Griz fell behind and once they realized they were playing poorly, began to be the team they can be...this time, Weber stopped the miracle run....UM needs shooters...and the freshmen we have are all known to do that, but so far we haven't seen it...

 

[Grizbacker1]

I tend to agree on Stockton, he just isn't a D1 guy physically. I wish you could put his mind in some of the other athletes bodies. He is a good team guy, locker room guy etc, and plays his role without causing trouble, so he adds value

 

[bobaloo]

My take on Stockton is that he does'nt really help the team because of his athletic limitations but he does not hurt the team because he knows what he can and cannot do on the floor. He is the invisible 5th guy who gets his minutes but they do not translate on the stat sheet. Would it be better to let the younger kids make mistakes but learn and gain confidence so that their abilities start to bear fruit. Only time will tell.

 

[GrizLA]

I tend to agree on Stockton, he just isn't a D1 guy physically. I wish you could put his mind in some of the other athletes bodies. He is a good team guy, locker room guy etc, and plays his role without causing trouble, so he adds value

Every one on the Griz team has value...Stockton can wear down a not so good front guy or two..hell, i get worn out just watching him....He does seem to maintain a senior's cool...