• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

Defensive Scheme

5280Griz said:
The gimmicky 3-3-5, 3 lineman, 3 linebackers and 5 defensive backs! That is such a boogeyman until you realize it is just a collection of positions and the players are the ones out there playing football, not the scheme.
Click to expand...
So the players are the issue?
 
Htowngriz said:
3 point loss in the first game thanks to an unlucky bounce of the ball and a terrible holding call. How many teams would be able to win a semifinal on the road against a good team after losing the number and caliber of players that we did?
Click to expand...
You nailed it.
 
RobGriz said:
So the players are the issue?
Click to expand...
I would say execution which I would include as coaching and player development is a big issue. I would say the personnel is another, for example we are losing the in state high school recruiting battle. I think these are more important to address than the scheme because as Missoula and others have said, any scheme can work with the right players executing it correctly.
 
Htowngriz said:
3 point loss in the first game thanks to an unlucky bounce of the ball and a terrible holding call. How many teams would be able to win a semifinal on the road against a good team after losing the number and caliber of players that we did?
Click to expand...
When is the last time Bobby won a road playoff game?
 
Missoula223 said:
Personnel isn’t scheme. Technique isn’t scheme. Good or bad coaching isn’t scheme.

Scheme is scheme. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Click to expand...
What exactly do you think you’ve cleared up? That you don’t agree with me on what constitutes “gimmicky” or not. Who cares.
The proof is in the results.
If the 3-3-5 is such a great scheme why aren’t more championship caliber teams running it? If it’s so awesome why are teams converting 3rd and forever REGULARLY against it? If it’s such a sound defense why are GOOD teams able to sustain 8 minute game clinching drives against it? And even some not so good teams have had their way with it.
Everyone says football is a copy cat sport, which it is, so why aren’t more teams copying our scheme??? I mean it’s awesome…right?
 
mthoopsfan said:
No, it’s the unknowledgeable fans. The D was pretty good.
Click to expand...
It worked pretty well for the cats. The hapless eagles came 1 fumble away from making it look like total ass.
The D had its moments, I’ll grant that but no, the D was not “pretty good”, serviceable would be more appropriate
.
 
5280Griz said:
I would say execution which I would include as coaching and player development is a big issue. I would say the personnel is another, for example we are losing the in state high school recruiting battle. I think these are more important to address than the scheme because as Missoula and others have said, any scheme can work with the right players executing it correctly.
Click to expand...
Any scheme? Remind me, have we ever, that you can remember, had a scheme that was so complicated and so hard to teach that it required 6 year seniors with nfl level talent to run effectively? Would recruiting Montana kids have made a difference?
 
RobGriz said:
It worked pretty well for the cats. The hapless eagles came 1 fumble away from making it look like total ass.
The D had its moments, I’ll grant that but no, the D was not “pretty good”, serviceable would be more appropriate
.
Click to expand...
Yes, the D was pretty good. You have lost your touch.
 
HikeGlacier said:
When is the last time Bobby won a road playoff game?
Click to expand...
When was the last time Vigen won a road playoff game? When has Vigen won a national champ game? When was the last time Vigen didn't try to get another job during the playoffs? When was the last time Vigen disciplined a coach or player for bad behavior? When did Vigen last beat NDSU at home in the playoffs? When is the last time Vigen lost to SDSU, in the same season UM beat SDSU?
 
Missoula223 said:
I’m not at all trying to be a prick, but the argument was about how the 3-3-5 is a “gimmick” defense.

But while I don’t necessarily disagree with you, wouldnt you like to be in 3 down and have a 0 nose vs gap scheme run game? Bear front is great vs everything but QB run game.

My point is, the 3-3-5 itself isnt the issue. And I ran 4 down for 11+ years!
Click to expand...
The 3-3-5 on its own is not what I would call a gimmick defense. One also should consider that most teams are rarely in their base defense, so it's somewhat of a misnomer. If you're running a 3 man front with a LB that walks up to the LOS and plays there 90% of the time, you're basically running a 4 man front. Too many people make too much of the name of a defense and go off of that.

Now, what I will say is that the way UM runs their 3-3-5 defense is kind of gimmicky. It relies on chaos and smoke and mirrors. Gap integrity is not important. There seems to be little rules. Since Hauck has been back and ran that defense, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of variation to it, but maybe that's just because I don't see it as much as others here. To me it very much seems like the defense is the defense, and they're not going to change how they run it with some few exception. I think it works when you play teams that you're more talented than, and when you play teams that you are not familiar with. It's one of the reasons that I think MSU matches up well against UM under this tenure...they can match the talent that UM has, and they see it every single year. It's an advantage MSU has, imo.

To be blunt, I think the defense UM runs, and UM just being UM, is one of the reasons why they'll likely always land in the quarters or semi's, but if they play against a team that has stronger line play or can match them in talent, they'll lose. That's just one outsiders take.
 
Bobcat99 said:
The 3-3-5 on its own is not what I would call a gimmick defense. One also should consider that most teams are rarely in their base defense, so it's somewhat of a misnomer. If you're running a 3 man front with a LB that walks up to the LOS and plays there 90% of the time, you're basically running a 4 man front. Too many people make too much of the name of a defense and go off of that.

Now, what I will say is that the way UM runs their 3-3-5 defense is kind of gimmicky. It relies on chaos and smoke and mirrors. Gap integrity is not important. There seems to be little rules. Since Hauck has been back and ran that defense, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of variation to it, but maybe that's just because I don't see it as much as others here. To me it very much seems like the defense is the defense, and they're not going to change how they run it with some few exception. I think it works when you play teams that you're more talented than, and when you play teams that you are not familiar with. It's one of the reasons that I think MSU matches up well against UM under this tenure...they can match the talent that UM has, and they see it every single year. It's an advantage MSU has, imo.

To be blunt, I think the defense UM runs, and UM just being UM, is one of the reasons why they'll likely always land in the quarters or semi's, but if they play against a team that has stronger line play or can match them in talent, they'll lose. That's just one outsiders take.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I don’t care what defense we run. What I do care about is that it’s able to do its job. And whether it’s a 3-3-5 or a 4-2-5 or whatever. As long as we are dependent on undersized d linemen and praying like hell we get a few shutdown corners and some super athletes at linebacker every year is not a recipe for success
 
mthoopsfan said:
When was the last time Vigen won a road playoff game? When has Vigen won a national champ game? When was the last time Vigen didn't try to get another job during the playoffs? When was the last time Vigen disciplined a coach or player for bad behavior? When did Vigen last beat NDSU at home in the playoffs? When is the last time Vigen lost to SDSU, in the same season UM beat SDSU?
Click to expand...
It's going to be next Monday night. Do you think Bobby will call and congratulate him?
 
RobGriz said:
Any scheme? Remind me, have we ever, that you can remember, had a scheme that was so complicated and so hard to teach that it required 6 year seniors with nfl level talent to run effectively? Would recruiting Montana kids have made a difference?
Click to expand...
It would certainly help to have high school players we developed and have had years learning that type scheme as depth guys, rather than trying to get new players from the portal to learn it from scratch every season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top