Defensive adjustments

[garizzalies]

Yeah it’s because a large portion of our secondary are 5’9 kids from Chinook

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

You forgot the star of this thread: Jaxon Lee from the hustling town of P-Burg!

6’1” 211

He had a breakout game and lead the team in solo tackles.

Did Lee start “OR” did Fouch?

I did not see the other “OR” at safety, Rausch, make the field—did he? But I also, can’t seem to remember seeing Cotton make a play for some reason.

I would like to see the starting safeties go:
Eureka, Fairfield, P-Burg.

 

[Missoula223]

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

You forgot the star of this thread: Jaxon Lee from the hustling town of P-Burg!

6’1” 211

He had a breakout game and lead the team in solo tackles.

Did Lee start “OR” did Fouch?

I did not see the other “OR” at safety, Rausch, make the field—did he? But I also, can’t seem to remember seeing Cotton make a play for some reason.

I would like to see the starting safeties go:
Eureka, Fairfield, P-Burg.

I did I apologize. I don’t know who started. I don’t think Rausch played, but I could be wrong.

We can’t have that. I was told our secondary is a bunch of 5’9 midgets from Chinook!

 

[mthoopsfan]

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

Plus were leading the nation in interceptions. You’re more clueless than hoops

Good longer post.

Are you still sticking with your (dumb) comment that covering receivers is "solely" attributable to pass rush? That's one of the dumbest football comments ever on egriz.

How can the Griz have no sacks, only some hurry's, get 2 picks, and hold ISU close to its lowest total passing stats of the season; yet you think pass defense is "solely" dependent on pass rush. Talk about clueless.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

You forgot the star of this thread: Jaxon Lee from the hustling town of P-Burg!

6’1” 211

He had a breakout game and lead the team in solo tackles.

Did Lee start “OR” did Fouch?

I did not see the other “OR” at safety, Rausch, make the field—did he? But I also, can’t seem to remember seeing Cotton make a play for some reason.

I would like to see the starting safeties go:
Eureka, Fairfield, P-Burg.

Cotton didn't have to make tackles or plays because his coverage was good, and ISU didn't run much.

Yes, Lee had a terrific game.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Yeah it’s because a large portion of our secondary are 5’9 kids from Chinook

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

My concern is t with kids from Montana or where they’re from. Just basic geography would tell you where your best chances of getting kids to play college football and even more specifically where you are best to find certain positions.

It’s great you were able to list 5 really great Montana secondary players over a span on 4 decades.

The facts are you are less likely to find a kid in Montana and let alone multiple of them that can defend or match up athletically with all of these college wide receivers today. And this year it is abundantly clear. They look small compared to the guys they’re covering. The look out matched and out muscled. Btw. I’m a guy from rural Montana.

Our secondary is an issue. And yes not getting pressure on the QB is a major concern. They’re both major issues. We don’t currently have the dogs on the DLine outside of Gubner that we are used to having either. And oh btw that is an area where we find multiple Montana kids that excel at that position.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You forgot the star of this thread: Jaxon Lee from the hustling town of P-Burg!

6’1” 211

He had a breakout game and lead the team in solo tackles.

Did Lee start “OR” did Fouch?

I did not see the other “OR” at safety, Rausch, make the field—did he? But I also, can’t seem to remember seeing Cotton make a play for some reason.

I would like to see the starting safeties go:
Eureka, Fairfield, P-Burg.

Cotton didn't have to make tackles or plays because his coverage was good, and ISU didn't run much.

Yes, Lee had a terrific game.

I do not equate # of tackles with how great of a game someone had.

Many times they have to make a tackle because their coverage was less than good and the allowed the receiver to get separation and make the catch.

The fact this D had zero sacks, zero QB hurries, zero passes defensed and zero pass breakups against NAU tells you all you need to know about the relative talent level and effectiveness of the defensive scheme.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Cotton didn't have to make tackles or plays because his coverage was good, and ISU didn't run much.

Yes, Lee had a terrific game.

I do not equate # of tackles with how great of a game someone had.

Many times they have to make a tackle because their coverage was less than good and the allowed the receiver to get separation and make the catch.

The fact this D had zero sacks, zero QB hurries, zero passes defensed and zero pass breakups against NAU tells you all you need to know about the relative talent level and effectiveness of the defensive scheme.

That's cause you never played the game. In a passing game, db's who cover well or who don't get thrown at, tend to have fewer tackles. They don't have to make tackles after their man catches the ball. Against a more balanced offense, then it's not a useful stat for pass defense success, as tackles should be made in the rush game.

As for your last para, please explain further. Are you saying the secondary is not talented? Are you saying the linebackers are not talented? Are you saying the d-line is not talented? I get the defensive scheme part of the comment.

 

[Missoula223]

Tim Hauck 5’10 from Big Fork
Shann Schillinger 6’0 from Baker
Tuff Harris 5’11 from Lodge Grass
Colt Anderson 5’10 from Butte
Blaine McElmurry 6’0 from Helena
List obviously goes on.

Current Secondary
Trajon Cotton 6’1 from Sacremento
Nash Fouch 6’2 from Woodinville WA
Corbin Walker 5’11 from Renton WA
Garrett Graves 6’3 from Eureka
Trevin Gradney 6’0 from Billings
Ryder Meyer 5’10 from Fairfield
Jace Klucewich 5’10 from Frenchtown

Is your issue with Meyer? 2nd leading tackler on the team while splitting time? Or Klucewich who doesn’t play much? Or all the Montana kids? Does 79 straight passes with no sacks concern you? Should we stop recruiting Montana? Your point really makes no sense, and frankly isn’t even remotely valid.

My concern is t with kids from Montana or where they’re from. Just basic geography would tell you where your best chances of getting kids to play college football and even more specifically where you are best to find certain positions.

It’s great you were able to list 5 really great Montana secondary players over a span on 4 decades.

The facts are you are less likely to find a kid in Montana and let alone multiple of them that can defend or match up athletically with all of these college wide receivers today. And this year it is abundantly clear. They look small compared to the guys they’re covering. The look out matched and out muscled. Btw. I’m a guy from rural Montana.

Our secondary is an issue. And yes not getting pressure on the QB is a major concern. They’re both major issues. We don’t currently have the dogs on the DLine outside of Gubner that we are used to having either. And oh btw that is an area where we find multiple Montana kids that excel at that position.

So with 3 of our 5 starting DBs being from out of state and only 2 of which being under 6 foot, is it fair to say your comments regarding our secondary being 5’9 and from chinook is completely false and total bullshit?

Listing some of DBs that are both from Montana and 6 foot or under 6 foot is certainly proof that’s its worth recruiting guys from Montana at those positions. Would you rather we not recruit those guys? Would we be better off without Graves, Gradney, Meyer, Klucewich, and Lee?

If our secondary is so bad, how do they lead the nation in interceptions? Seems that stat alone would be worthy of some notoriety.

 

[The.Real.2506]

My concern is t with kids from Montana or where they’re from. Just basic geography would tell you where your best chances of getting kids to play college football and even more specifically where you are best to find certain positions.

It’s great you were able to list 5 really great Montana secondary players over a span on 4 decades.

The facts are you are less likely to find a kid in Montana and let alone multiple of them that can defend or match up athletically with all of these college wide receivers today. And this year it is abundantly clear. They look small compared to the guys they’re covering. The look out matched and out muscled. Btw. I’m a guy from rural Montana.

Our secondary is an issue. And yes not getting pressure on the QB is a major concern. They’re both major issues. We don’t currently have the dogs on the DLine outside of Gubner that we are used to having either. And oh btw that is an area where we find multiple Montana kids that excel at that position.

So with 3 of our 5 starting DBs being from out of state and only 2 of which being under 6 foot, is it fair to say your comments regarding our secondary being 5’9 and from chinook is completely false and total poop?

Listing some of DBs that are both from Montana and 6 foot or under 6 foot is certainly proof that’s its worth recruiting guys from Montana at those positions. Would you rather we not recruit those guys? Would we be better off without Graves, Gradney, Meyer, Klucewich, and Lee?

If our secondary is so bad, how do they lead the nation in interceptions? Seems that stat alone would be worthy of some notoriety.

The book on your team right now is throw the ball, throw it a lot, when teams throw it that much the chance of interceptions goes way up. even a blind squirrel finds a nut now ant then. :thumb:

 

[mtgrizrule]

Great subject, unfortunately nobody going out on a limb to give possible solutions, or even improvements.
Let's come up with suggestions for the GRIZ defense.

I'll start with a few suggestions, changes, etc.

Get away from our base defense based on situations, match-ups, oppositions strengths and weaknesses.
Regardless of the defense type, playing the same base defense over and over, makes it easier for good offensive coaches and qbs to prep for. Opposing coaches know our tendencies, being we don't get away from our base defense.

Power running teams know, we don't have the size to control a running game for a full game. Common damn sense, 5 defensive backs are less effective against power running teams, than any front 7 of lbs and dls.

Wide open passing offenses know to run quick routes, with an occasional deep play. They know, most lbs are at a disadvantage in coverage, verses against more dbs.

Against ISUs passing offense, I would have gone dime a lot especially in obvious passing.downs and situations.

Against the likes of NDSU, MSU, SDSU, etc my defense is going with only 4 dbs a lot. I'm going with bigger front 7 packages.

In a nutshell, let my defensive personnel match-up better with opposing offenses.

Honestly, how difficult are those personnel and defensive packages to implement? Instead, we choose to not make adjustments and let opposing offenses have an advantage.

I could expand further. I think, you all get the point.
Feel free to add to this. What can we come up with?

 

[AZGrizFan]

I do not equate # of tackles with how great of a game someone had.

Many times they have to make a tackle because their coverage was less than good and the allowed the receiver to get separation and make the catch.

The fact this D had zero sacks, zero QB hurries, zero passes defensed and zero pass breakups against NAU tells you all you need to know about the relative talent level and effectiveness of the defensive scheme.

That's cause you never played the game. In a passing game, db's who cover well or who don't get thrown at, tend to have fewer tackles. They don't have to make tackles after their man catches the ball. Against a more balanced offense, then it's not a useful stat for pass defense success, as tackles should be made in the rush game.

As for your last para, please explain further. Are you saying the secondary is not talented? Are you saying the linebackers are not talented? Are you saying the d-line is not talented? I get the defensive scheme part of the comment.

Uh, you and I agree here, counselor. If they were covering well they’d have fewer tackles. I said literally the exact same thing.

And my last paragraph is a statement on the overall effectiveness of the scheme. When the scheme is predicated on defensive pressure on the QB (sacks, QB hurries, etc) and said pressure fails to materialize consistently (or EVER, as is this year’s case) the DB’s have to cover longer and are more apt to fail, resulting in fewer passes defensed, fewer pass breakups, higher completion percentages, more passing yards given up, and more tackles by the safeties and DB’s, etc, etc.

 

[mthoopsfan]

So with 3 of our 5 starting DBs being from out of state and only 2 of which being under 6 foot, is it fair to say your comments regarding our secondary being 5’9 and from chinook is completely false and total poop?

Listing some of DBs that are both from Montana and 6 foot or under 6 foot is certainly proof that’s its worth recruiting guys from Montana at those positions. Would you rather we not recruit those guys? Would we be better off without Graves, Gradney, Meyer, Klucewich, and Lee?

If our secondary is so bad, how do they lead the nation in interceptions? Seems that stat alone would be worthy of some notoriety.

The book on your team right now is throw the ball, throw it a lot, when teams throw it that much the chance of interceptions goes way up. even a blind squirrel finds a nut now ant then. :thumb:

Oh, BS on the “book” comment. The Griz pass D is pretty good. Troll.

 

[mthoopsfan]

That's cause you never played the game. In a passing game, db's who cover well or who don't get thrown at, tend to have fewer tackles. They don't have to make tackles after their man catches the ball. Against a more balanced offense, then it's not a useful stat for pass defense success, as tackles should be made in the rush game.

As for your last para, please explain further. Are you saying the secondary is not talented? Are you saying the linebackers are not talented? Are you saying the d-line is not talented? I get the defensive scheme part of the comment.

Uh, you and I agree here, counselor. If they were covering well they’d have fewer tackles. I said literally the exact same thing.

And my last paragraph is a statement on the overall effectiveness of the scheme. When the scheme is predicated on defensive pressure on the QB (sacks, QB hurries, etc) and said pressure fails to materialize consistently (or EVER, as is this year’s case) the DB’s have to cover longer and are more apt to fail, resulting in fewer passes defensed, fewer pass breakups, higher completion percentages, more passing yards given up, and more tackles by the safeties and DB’s, etc, etc.

You also talked about talent level. You or someone questioned Cotton too. He is a very good player.

 

[ilovethecats]

The book on your team right now is throw the ball, throw it a lot, when teams throw it that much the chance of interceptions goes way up. even a blind squirrel finds a nut now ant then. :thumb:

Oh, BS on the “book” comment. The Griz pass D is pretty good. Troll.

By what metric PR?

Genuinely asking.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Oh, BS on the “book” comment. The Griz pass D is pretty good. Troll.

By what metric PR?

Genuinely asking.

From watching them and knowing their skills. And talking to the coaches and several of the players. Note that they held ISU to almost its lowest passing numbers in yardage, average per page, and average per completion. Their man coverage is usually good. And the number of picks. As a group, they have good hands. They have made too many mistakes in some prior games.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I do not equate # of tackles with how great of a game someone had.

Many times they have to make a tackle because their coverage was less than good and the allowed the receiver to get separation and make the catch.

The fact this D had zero sacks, zero QB hurries, zero passes defensed and zero pass breakups against NAU tells you all you need to know about the relative talent level and effectiveness of the defensive scheme.

That's cause you never played the game. In a passing game, db's who cover well or who don't get thrown at, tend to have fewer tackles. They don't have to make tackles after their man catches the ball. Against a more balanced offense, then it's not a useful stat for pass defense success, as tackles should be made in the rush game.

As for your last para, please explain further. Are you saying the secondary is not talented? Are you saying the linebackers are not talented? Are you saying the d-line is not talented? I get the defensive scheme part of the comment.

#hoops translator - can we get some help here?

 

[SoldierGriz]

By what metric PR?

Genuinely asking.

From watching them and knowing their skills. And talking to the coaches and several of the players. Note that they held ISU to almost its lowest passing numbers in yardage, average per page, and average per completion. Their man coverage is usually good. And the number of picks. As a group, they have good hands. They have made too many mistakes in some prior games.

@hoops translator - can we get this into plain english?

 

[ilovethecats]

By what metric PR?

Genuinely asking.

From watching them and knowing their skills. And talking to the coaches and several of the players. Note that they held ISU to almost its lowest passing numbers in yardage, average per page, and average per completion. Their man coverage is usually good. And the number of picks. As a group, they have good hands. They have made too many mistakes in some prior games.

That’s fair. It’s still early. Just don’t look at them and think they’re a good pass D.

Though to be fair I don’t think the griz appear to be as bad as some on here think. Like I said it’s early.

Good coaching really shows up this point of the season going forward.

 

[mthoopsfan]

From watching them and knowing their skills. And talking to the coaches and several of the players. Note that they held ISU to almost its lowest passing numbers in yardage, average per page, and average per completion. Their man coverage is usually good. And the number of picks. As a group, they have good hands. They have made too many mistakes in some prior games.

That’s fair. It’s still early. Just don’t look at them and think they’re a good pass D.

Though to be fair I don’t think the griz appear to be as bad as some on here think. Like I said it’s early.

Good coaching really shows up this point of the season going forward.

The Griz aren’t bad in any respect. Only people not paying attention, trolls, and those who never played the game would say that. Of course, not great or dominate either. Not as good as last year. Trying to find their way and improve. Trying to win each game. I like Vidlak, but I think McDowell is going to step up. The coaches are very good.

 

[ilovethecats]

That’s fair. It’s still early. Just don’t look at them and think they’re a good pass D.

Though to be fair I don’t think the griz appear to be as bad as some on here think. Like I said it’s early.

Good coaching really shows up this point of the season going forward.

The Griz aren’t bad in any respect. Only people not paying attention, trolls, and those who never played the game would say that. Of course, not great or dominate either. Not as good as last year. Trying to find their way and improve. Trying to win each game. I like Vidlak, but I think McDowell is going to step up. The coaches are very good.

That’s all fine PR. You could be right. I’ve been around long enough where you know I don’t get into that troll shit. I just don’t see a metric in which you’d look at the numbers and say that you have a good pass D. That can obviously change.

Through a bet your way if you wanna look it over. I’m the we did not quit thread….