Debunking a popular myth

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

The Phyllis Washington Education Center.

Meanwhile, MSU is using some state coin to fund literacy among MSU train drivers with the new Cliff Hysell Center for Cats Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn How to Do Other Stuff Good Too.

THIS made me laugh like school girl!!

POTY Nominee!

agree POTY for sure!

 

[PlayerRep]

The By the Numbers chart in the article was interesting. I'll post it below, but I suppose the format may fall apart. Anyway, it's in the link to the article and worth skimming.


By the Numbers
Category Detail MSU UM
Students Total 15,688 10,999
10-year change +24.4% -10.8%
Tuition In-State $6,850 $6,182 ($6,642 jrs., srs.)
Out-of-State $22,170 $23,072
Tuition Revenue $139.4 million $93.8 million
State Support $60.7 million $63.1 million
Tuition Waivers & Scholarships In-State Students $2.3 million $2.5 million
Out-of-State Students $15.2 million $7.8 million
Retention Rate
(Students returning after first year) 77% 72.5%
Freshmen enrollment Change, four years by gender +184 women +219 men
-134 women -314 men

 

[SACCAT66]

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

The Phyllis Washington Education Center.

Meanwhile, MSU is using some state coin to fund literacy among MSU train drivers with the new Cliff Hysell Center for Cats Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn How to Do Other Stuff Good Too.

 

[Umista]

After three solid pages of debunking the original thread "Debunking a popular myth" by Montana STATE fan, the fan is still in hiding and perhaps ashamed of his original bobcat batter that they are notorious for eating in that neck of the woods. Once old 75 and others chimed in with facts poor old state fan was shot out of the saddle and limped off, his tail already bobbed off.

Word of caution for those cats that make false blathering comments on this board...you may end up having to swallow your bobcat batter!

 

[Glendivegriz]

Shoot, I thought we were getting to the bottom of the Loch Ness monster or bigfoot.

 

[kemajic]

The By the Numbers chart in the article was interesting. I'll post it below, but I suppose the format may fall apart. Anyway, it's in the link to the article and worth skimming.


By the Numbers
Category Detail MSU UM
Students Total 15,688 10,999
10-year change +24.4% -10.8%
Tuition In-State $6,850 $6,182 ($6,642 jrs., srs.)
Out-of-State $22,170 $23,072
Tuition Revenue $139.4 million $93.8 million
State Support $60.7 million $63.1 million
Tuition Waivers & Scholarships In-State Students $2.3 million $2.5 million
Out-of-State Students $15.2 million $7.8 million
Retention Rate
(Students returning after first year) 77% 72.5%
Freshmen enrollment Change, four years by gender +184 women +219 men
-134 women -314 men

Quoted from the article, "In Missoula, student headcount has fallen by 2,600 students from UM’s 2011 peak of 15,669, a 17 percent drop." This indicates a current enrollment of 13,005, not the 10,999 number listed in the table. It would appear the Bozeman paper has about the same kind of credibility as the Missoulian.

 

[MontanaSTATEfan]

Quoted from the article, "In Missoula, student headcount has fallen by 2,600 students from UM’s 2011 peak of 15,669, a 17 percent drop." This indicates a current enrollment of 13,005, not the 10,999 number listed in the table. It would appear the Bozeman paper has about the same kind of credibility as the Missoulian.

The Missoulian used headcount (actual bodies) and the Chronicle used FTE - full-time-equivalent.

 

[kemajic]

Quoted from the article, "In Missoula, student headcount has fallen by 2,600 students from UM’s 2011 peak of 15,669, a 17 percent drop." This indicates a current enrollment of 13,005, not the 10,999 number listed in the table. It would appear the Bozeman paper has about the same kind of credibility as the Missoulian.

The Missoulian used headcount (actual bodies) and the Chronicle used FTE - full-time-equivalent.

The conflict is totally within the Chronicle article; the Missoulian has nothing to do with it, other than to compare general credibility.

I pointed out this inconsistency to the author who has just responded:

Hi, Dr. Kem,
Yes, you're right! I'll correct that online right now.
I failed to add Missoula College's headcount number to the UM main campus number, and didn't notice my mistake.
Sigh. I try hard to double check things but I failed in this case. I appreciate your pointing it out to me.
It gets confusing, because some of the University System reports add the two-year numbers into the four-year campus numbers, and some use headcount and others full-time equivalent. But I'm supposed to know the difference and keep it all straight. I apologize. It was unintentional.
Sincerely, Gail S.

 

[MontanaSTATEfan]

Spring 2015 Census Day
15th Day Enrollment Report 2/19/2015
% of 2015 % of 2014
Spring 2015 Spring 2014 Total Total % of Change
STUDENT HEADCOUNT
8,804 9,203 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.3%
First‐time Entering Freshman 135 124 1.5% 1.3% 8.9%
Transfer Freshman 50 73 0.6% 0.8% ‐31.5%
Other New Transfer* 192 168 2.2% 1.8% 14.3%
Readmit 310 308 3.5% 3.3% 0.6%
Continuing 8,090 8,509 91.9% 92.5% ‐4.9%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 27 21 0.3% 0.2% 28.6%
2,019 2,020 100.0% 100.0% 0.0%
First‐time** 135 141 6.7% 7.0% ‐4.3%
Continuing 1,744 1,766 86.4% 87.4% ‐1.2%
Readmit 140 113 6.9% 5.6% 23.9%
240 244 100.0% 100.0% ‐1.6%
First‐time** 0 0 0.0% 0.0% ‐
Continuing 235 240 97.9% 98.4% ‐2.1%
Readmit 5 4 2.1% 1.6% 25.0%
11,063 11,467 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.5%
1,859 2,087 100.0% 100.0% ‐10.9%
First‐time Entering Freshman 142 151 7.6% 7.2% ‐6.0%
Transfer Freshman 49 52 2.6% 2.5% ‐5.8%
Other New Transfer 28 31 1.5% 1.5% ‐9.7%
Readmit 91 115 4.9% 5.5% ‐20.9%
Continuing 1,371 1,548 73.7% 74.2% ‐11.4%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 178 190 9.6% 9.1% ‐6.3%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
CURRENT RESIDENCE
Resident 9,206 9,874 71.2% 72.8% ‐6.8%
Nonresident 3,041 3,042 23.5% 22.4% 0.0%
WUE 675 638 5.2% 4.7% 5.8%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
FULL‐TIME EQUIVALENT (FTE)
Undergraduate 8,062 8,266 73.3% 72.8% ‐2.5%
Graduate 1,310 1,301 11.9% 11.5% 0.7%
Law 279 297 2.5% 2.6% ‐6.1%
Missoula College 1,347 1,498 12.2% 13.2% ‐10.1%
Total 10,998 11,362 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.2%

Okay but this is from UM's own report: http://www.umt.edu/search/find?q=enrollment+report&cx=008446828893835516748%3A5zxralfycu4&cof=FORID%3A10

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Thanks, MontanaSTATEfan! That is super easy to decipher.

-Will Hunting

 

[kemajic]

Spring 2015 Census Day
15th Day Enrollment Report 2/19/2015
% of 2015 % of 2014
Spring 2015 Spring 2014 Total Total % of Change
STUDENT HEADCOUNT
8,804 9,203 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.3%
First‐time Entering Freshman 135 124 1.5% 1.3% 8.9%
Transfer Freshman 50 73 0.6% 0.8% ‐31.5%
Other New Transfer* 192 168 2.2% 1.8% 14.3%
Readmit 310 308 3.5% 3.3% 0.6%
Continuing 8,090 8,509 91.9% 92.5% ‐4.9%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 27 21 0.3% 0.2% 28.6%
2,019 2,020 100.0% 100.0% 0.0%
First‐time** 135 141 6.7% 7.0% ‐4.3%
Continuing 1,744 1,766 86.4% 87.4% ‐1.2%
Readmit 140 113 6.9% 5.6% 23.9%
240 244 100.0% 100.0% ‐1.6%
First‐time** 0 0 0.0% 0.0% ‐
Continuing 235 240 97.9% 98.4% ‐2.1%
Readmit 5 4 2.1% 1.6% 25.0%
11,063 11,467 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.5%
1,859 2,087 100.0% 100.0% ‐10.9%
First‐time Entering Freshman 142 151 7.6% 7.2% ‐6.0%
Transfer Freshman 49 52 2.6% 2.5% ‐5.8%
Other New Transfer 28 31 1.5% 1.5% ‐9.7%
Readmit 91 115 4.9% 5.5% ‐20.9%
Continuing 1,371 1,548 73.7% 74.2% ‐11.4%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 178 190 9.6% 9.1% ‐6.3%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
CURRENT RESIDENCE
Resident 9,206 9,874 71.2% 72.8% ‐6.8%
Nonresident 3,041 3,042 23.5% 22.4% 0.0%
WUE 675 638 5.2% 4.7% 5.8%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
FULL‐TIME EQUIVALENT (FTE)
Undergraduate 8,062 8,266 73.3% 72.8% ‐2.5%
Graduate 1,310 1,301 11.9% 11.5% 0.7%
Law 279 297 2.5% 2.6% ‐6.1%
Missoula College 1,347 1,498 12.2% 13.2% ‐10.1%
Total 10,998 11,362 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.2%

Okay but this is from UM's own report: http://www.umt.edu/search/find?q=enrollment+report&cx=008446828893835516748%3A5zxralfycu4&cof=FORID%3A10

The newer Fall 2015 report (13,044):

http://www.umt.edu/plan/documents/201570Census.pdf

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Hi, Dr. Kem...

Wait, we have to start calling you Doctor Kem now?

 

[EverettGriz]

Spring 2015 Census Day
15th Day Enrollment Report 2/19/2015
% of 2015 % of 2014
Spring 2015 Spring 2014 Total Total % of Change
STUDENT HEADCOUNT
8,804 9,203 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.3%
First‐time Entering Freshman 135 124 1.5% 1.3% 8.9%
Transfer Freshman 50 73 0.6% 0.8% ‐31.5%
Other New Transfer* 192 168 2.2% 1.8% 14.3%
Readmit 310 308 3.5% 3.3% 0.6%
Continuing 8,090 8,509 91.9% 92.5% ‐4.9%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 27 21 0.3% 0.2% 28.6%
2,019 2,020 100.0% 100.0% 0.0%
First‐time** 135 141 6.7% 7.0% ‐4.3%
Continuing 1,744 1,766 86.4% 87.4% ‐1.2%
Readmit 140 113 6.9% 5.6% 23.9%
240 244 100.0% 100.0% ‐1.6%
First‐time** 0 0 0.0% 0.0% ‐
Continuing 235 240 97.9% 98.4% ‐2.1%
Readmit 5 4 2.1% 1.6% 25.0%
11,063 11,467 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.5%
1,859 2,087 100.0% 100.0% ‐10.9%
First‐time Entering Freshman 142 151 7.6% 7.2% ‐6.0%
Transfer Freshman 49 52 2.6% 2.5% ‐5.8%
Other New Transfer 28 31 1.5% 1.5% ‐9.7%
Readmit 91 115 4.9% 5.5% ‐20.9%
Continuing 1,371 1,548 73.7% 74.2% ‐11.4%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 178 190 9.6% 9.1% ‐6.3%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
CURRENT RESIDENCE
Resident 9,206 9,874 71.2% 72.8% ‐6.8%
Nonresident 3,041 3,042 23.5% 22.4% 0.0%
WUE 675 638 5.2% 4.7% 5.8%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
FULL‐TIME EQUIVALENT (FTE)
Undergraduate 8,062 8,266 73.3% 72.8% ‐2.5%
Graduate 1,310 1,301 11.9% 11.5% 0.7%
Law 279 297 2.5% 2.6% ‐6.1%
Missoula College 1,347 1,498 12.2% 13.2% ‐10.1%
Total 10,998 11,362 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.2%

Okay but this is from UM's own report: http://www.umt.edu/search/find?q=enrollment+report&cx=008446828893835516748%3A5zxralfycu4&cof=FORID%3A10

This is as logical,sensible and accurate as your original post in this thread. Your consistency is admirable.

 

[kemajic]

Hi, Dr. Kem...

Wait, we have to start calling you Doctor Kem now?

Isn't everyone on here a Dr.?

 

[tgreseth]

Hi, Dr. Kem...

Wait, we have to start calling you Doctor Kem now?

Isn't everyone on here a Dr.?

 

[bgbigdog]

Hi, Dr. Kem...

Wait, we have to start calling you Doctor Kem now?

You'll need a referral from your primary and a pre-release from your provider to address him from here on out.

 

[jodcon]

Spring 2015 Census Day
15th Day Enrollment Report 2/19/2015
% of 2015 % of 2014
Spring 2015 Spring 2014 Total Total % of Change
STUDENT HEADCOUNT
8,804 9,203 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.3%
First‐time Entering Freshman 135 124 1.5% 1.3% 8.9%
Transfer Freshman 50 73 0.6% 0.8% ‐31.5%
Other New Transfer* 192 168 2.2% 1.8% 14.3%
Readmit 310 308 3.5% 3.3% 0.6%
Continuing 8,090 8,509 91.9% 92.5% ‐4.9%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 27 21 0.3% 0.2% 28.6%
2,019 2,020 100.0% 100.0% 0.0%
First‐time** 135 141 6.7% 7.0% ‐4.3%
Continuing 1,744 1,766 86.4% 87.4% ‐1.2%
Readmit 140 113 6.9% 5.6% 23.9%
240 244 100.0% 100.0% ‐1.6%
First‐time** 0 0 0.0% 0.0% ‐
Continuing 235 240 97.9% 98.4% ‐2.1%
Readmit 5 4 2.1% 1.6% 25.0%
11,063 11,467 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.5%
1,859 2,087 100.0% 100.0% ‐10.9%
First‐time Entering Freshman 142 151 7.6% 7.2% ‐6.0%
Transfer Freshman 49 52 2.6% 2.5% ‐5.8%
Other New Transfer 28 31 1.5% 1.5% ‐9.7%
Readmit 91 115 4.9% 5.5% ‐20.9%
Continuing 1,371 1,548 73.7% 74.2% ‐11.4%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 178 190 9.6% 9.1% ‐6.3%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
CURRENT RESIDENCE
Resident 9,206 9,874 71.2% 72.8% ‐6.8%
Nonresident 3,041 3,042 23.5% 22.4% 0.0%
WUE 675 638 5.2% 4.7% 5.8%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
FULL‐TIME EQUIVALENT (FTE)
Undergraduate 8,062 8,266 73.3% 72.8% ‐2.5%
Graduate 1,310 1,301 11.9% 11.5% 0.7%
Law 279 297 2.5% 2.6% ‐6.1%
Missoula College 1,347 1,498 12.2% 13.2% ‐10.1%
Total 10,998 11,362 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.2%

Okay but this is from UM's own report: http://www.umt.edu/search/find?q=enrollment+report&cx=008446828893835516748%3A5zxralfycu4&cof=FORID%3A10

I ran this by John Nash, he stared at it for a couple hours and asked for a map of the MSU campus. He then placed a marker on the shit lagoon, another on the bull pasture, and a third on the tool shed in the endzone.

He cleared his throat and proclaimed "It says Bobcats Suck"

He then noticed a man in a Griz jersey and asked "Who is big brother?"

 

[snap]

Spring 2015 Census Day
15th Day Enrollment Report 2/19/2015
% of 2015 % of 2014
Spring 2015 Spring 2014 Total Total % of Change
STUDENT HEADCOUNT
8,804 9,203 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.3%
First‐time Entering Freshman 135 124 1.5% 1.3% 8.9%
Transfer Freshman 50 73 0.6% 0.8% ‐31.5%
Other New Transfer* 192 168 2.2% 1.8% 14.3%
Readmit 310 308 3.5% 3.3% 0.6%
Continuing 8,090 8,509 91.9% 92.5% ‐4.9%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 27 21 0.3% 0.2% 28.6%
2,019 2,020 100.0% 100.0% 0.0%
First‐time** 135 141 6.7% 7.0% ‐4.3%
Continuing 1,744 1,766 86.4% 87.4% ‐1.2%
Readmit 140 113 6.9% 5.6% 23.9%
240 244 100.0% 100.0% ‐1.6%
First‐time** 0 0 0.0% 0.0% ‐
Continuing 235 240 97.9% 98.4% ‐2.1%
Readmit 5 4 2.1% 1.6% 25.0%
11,063 11,467 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.5%
1,859 2,087 100.0% 100.0% ‐10.9%
First‐time Entering Freshman 142 151 7.6% 7.2% ‐6.0%
Transfer Freshman 49 52 2.6% 2.5% ‐5.8%
Other New Transfer 28 31 1.5% 1.5% ‐9.7%
Readmit 91 115 4.9% 5.5% ‐20.9%
Continuing 1,371 1,548 73.7% 74.2% ‐11.4%
Early Admit/Dual Enrollment 178 190 9.6% 9.1% ‐6.3%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
CURRENT RESIDENCE
Resident 9,206 9,874 71.2% 72.8% ‐6.8%
Nonresident 3,041 3,042 23.5% 22.4% 0.0%
WUE 675 638 5.2% 4.7% 5.8%
Total 12,922 13,554 100.0% 100.0% ‐4.7%
FULL‐TIME EQUIVALENT (FTE)
Undergraduate 8,062 8,266 73.3% 72.8% ‐2.5%
Graduate 1,310 1,301 11.9% 11.5% 0.7%
Law 279 297 2.5% 2.6% ‐6.1%
Missoula College 1,347 1,498 12.2% 13.2% ‐10.1%
Total 10,998 11,362 100.0% 100.0% ‐3.2%

Okay but this is from UM's own report: http://www.umt.edu/search/find?q=enrollment+report&cx=008446828893835516748%3A5zxralfycu4&cof=FORID%3A10

I ran this by John Nash, he stared at it for a couple hours and asked for a map of the MSU campus. He then placed a marker on the shit lagoon, another on the bull pasture, and a third on the tool shed in the endzone.

He cleared his throat and proclaimed "It says Bobcats Suck"

He then noticed a man in a Griz jersey and asked "Who is big brother?"

:lol: You're on fire jodcon.

 

[UMGriz75]

I ran this by John Nash, he stared at it for a couple hours and asked for a map of the MSU campus. He then placed a marker on the shit lagoon, another on the bull pasture, and a third on the tool shed in the endzone.

He cleared his throat and proclaimed "It says Bobcats Suck"

He then noticed a man in a Griz jersey and asked "Who is big brother?"

This is just very, very good. :thumb:

 

[Ursa Major]

I ran this by John Nash, he stared at it for a couple hours and asked for a map of the MSU campus. He then placed a marker on the shit lagoon, another on the bull pasture, and a third on the tool shed in the endzone.

He cleared his throat and proclaimed "It says Bobcats Suck"

He then noticed a man in a Griz jersey and asked "Who is big brother?"

This is just very, very good. :thumb:

Brilliant, Jodcon!! :lol: :lol: :clap: