Debunking a popular myth

[EverettGriz]

It really seems to me as though state could have used a few more liberal arts courses such as Economics. Not to mention a course on logic from the Philosophy department.

Or any type of science or forestry degree, surely one of those discusses the different sound a Bobcat and a Mountain Lion makes.

Ha!

 

[krammer]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my life. The argument clearly disproves itself. Athletics are subsidized at a higher rate at MSU than at UM. Saying that it just so happens the money goes here rather than there, so it is ok is not stupid, it is naive.

this is correct,,,,,very obvious,,,,,,like they say people are born with five senses, horse and common have to learned,,,,geezzz.... :?

 

[UMGriz75]

Overall, MSU gets approximately 32% of its revenue from the State, whereas UM gets a substantially lower percentage of state support at 23%. The MSU campus in general is much more heavily subsidized by the State.

UM Athletics generateds $20.6 million in revenue (2014). That compares to $110 million in revenue from tuition, for instance.

Montana spent $20.3 million on athletics, with an $8.6 million subsidy (41.9%).

MSU spent $18.6 million with a $10.6 million subsidy (56.22%). Over the recent five year period MSU has received approximately $39 million more subsidy dollars for its athletic programs than UM.

The MSU subsidy comes from its general budget, just as UM's does. Since MSU's budget is more heavily subsidized overall, MSU Athletics is subsidized by the State to the tune of $3,345,024, whereas Montana's is subsidized at $1,956,311 by State money, that is, 71% more funding comes from the State for MSU Athletics than for UM Athletics.

If UM did not have its screwy accounting system in place, the UM Athletic Dept would show no subsidy whatsoever.

 

[Allezchat]

I once shared a bunk with a um cheerleader. When we woke up the next morning, she didn't want to debunk. That's no myth........

 

[Allezchat]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Law school?

 

[grzz]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Law Schools, Scaggs addition, Native American Center, current new College of Technology. Probably a few others, most from the earlier portion of your ten year period than the more recent. I don't at all disagree with where you are going on that question. UM needs to get it's shit together.

The rest of that article is troubling.

 

[George Ferguson]

Wait, so were those dogs or wolves chasing the elk on Mt. Jumbo?

 

[Bear Axed]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_f928ae80-29ae-11df-8d56-001cc4c002e0.html
University administrators excused athletics from having to make additional cuts because of the department's contributions to the new interdisciplinary science building.

The $14 million science building was constructed without state, federal or private dollars, said Bob Duringer, vice president of administration and finance. UM decided several years ago that four departments on campus would share equally in the responsibility of paying it off.

The Provost's Office, the Office of Research and Development, the Office of Administration and Finance and Athletics must contribute $190,000 apiece annually for 25 years to pay off the building bonds.

"There are very few athletics departments that are successful enough to help the academic side of the institution," Duringer said.

Athletics also pays $500,000 annually in rent to the Adams Center for occupying its facility. Whether it's a concert, expo or athletic event, everyone who uses the Adams Center pays rent, Duringer said. That's no different than UM's grant-funded researchers who pay to use space on campus, he said.

This year, the UM football team played one less home game, which was a loss of $500,000, O'Day said.

If ever UM sold 20,000 tickets at a Grizzly football game instead of 25,000 tickets, O'Day said he'd be looking at a $1 million deficit in the athletic budget.

 

[EverettGriz]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

Knock it off with all these bullshit facts....it makes the changing of the guard statement way harder to defend

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

Knock it off with all these bullshit facts....it makes the changing of the guard statement way harder to defend

They're the ones winning the state( just not the Brawl)....theyre the one beating off the sky!!!! Stop with this nonsense.

 

[Grizzoola]

How I see it is, the BOR want athletic parity between UM and MSU. They miss the fact that UM's athletic programs are far more successful than MSU's. That's why if UM ever wants to move up (sorry) to the MWC in football, they'll insist MSU goes along.

They continue to ignore the fact that the schools have two different academic, and by extension, athletic, missions. You walk thru the MSU student union and it's larger and more luxurious than UM's University Center. I won't detail that. MSU has more prestige w/ the BOR than UM because of its STEM emphasis. The only thing they can't justify is that MSU's athletics are on a par w/ UM's. The BOR favors MSU. You only have to walk around the campus to realize it.

 

[Allezchat]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

I asked because I didn't know. I don't pay attention to um construction. As said. No smack intended.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

They're the ones winning the state( just not the Brawl)....theyre the one beating off the sky!!!! Stop with this nonsense.

I think it's "Beat off This Guy" while the crowd points at the winner of the 50/50 drawing.

 

[EverettGriz]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

I asked because I didn't know. I don't pay attention to um construction. As said. No smack intended.

Hmmm, okay, although by including a parking garage I have a feeling there was a bit of smack intended. Sort of like if I were to say the largest project msu has undertaken in the last 10 years was to FINALLY move into the 1920s and pave that freaking mud pit of a parking lot. But that said, there wasn't any smack intended in my answer either.

 

[Allezchat]

We're building a parking garage. It is what it is.

It's weird how students think they need to be able to park 2 seconds from walking into class. Not my idea of a need but to each their own.

 

[grzz]

Ken, every school in America accounts for scholarships that way. They do the same for academic schollys.

The point is, at some point the BOR is going to have to take a hard look at the ROI. msu spends millions more and still regularly and consistently gets their asses kicked by UM. Waded (into the deep end) should be ashamed for pissing away tax payer money that way.

I'm sure the BOR sees the uptrend in enrollment and realizes that athletics is only a minute fraction of measuring success of a college.

I ask this not as smack, but out of real curiosity. What has UM built in the last decade that was not athletics related? I don't know how new that parking garage is. Has it been in the last decade? What else? I see all this construction happening at MSU(Jabs Hall, ect) and I see these monster donations coming in for academics, and I'm curious if UM is seeing the same kind of non-athletic donations and construction.

Seriously? UM has had more academic building (or major remodels) in the last 10 years than msu by a large margin. In addition to those named by grzz above: The Gilkey Center, major remodel to the Performing Arts Center and huge technology upgrades to the Liberal Arts. Law School. SOBA. I could go on if you'd like.

And yes, UM has received record private donations the past 3 years.

Ah yes, I forgot about the SOBA/Gilkey Center stuff. Not working on campus anymore it is easy for overlook things.

 

[UMGriz75]

Law school?

Well, within the past ten years:
1) Addition and renovation to the School of Education, morphing into the Phyllis J. Washington Education Center.
2) The Journalism Building (Don Anderson Hall)
3) The Skaggs Pharmacy Addition
4) The new Interdisciplinary Science Bldg
5) Major Law School addition
6) The new Business School Executive Center (Gilkey Center -- just being finished)
7) Addition and upgrade to the University Theater
8) Beginning Library remodel
9) Beginning University Center remodel
10) Separate Chem Stores facility
11) Student Athlete Learning Center
12) Champions Center
13) Native American Center
14) Missoula College
15) Softball field facility
16) Biochemistry Research Facility
17) Math building addition
18) McGill Hall addition (HHP)
19) Chem Building addition

 

[bgbigdog]

So with that, we're back to the actual popular myth, that state ag & auto actually plays football.