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Controversial One-Time Open Transfer Rule – PROPOSED

CDAGRIZ said:
grizindabox said:
Anyone know what the average length that a Head Coach stays at a school at the FBS and FCS level?

I saw something on Biz Insider from 2017 that said FBS is 3.8 years, and there was a 68% chance a new signee would have a different HC at some point if he stayed 5 years. Pretty interesting!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...otball-players-coaches-recruiting-2017-12?amp

Kind of my point. No recruit should ever think the Head Coach will be there when they are an upper classman.
 
grizindabox said:
CDAGRIZ said:
grizindabox said:
Anyone know what the average length that a Head Coach stays at a school at the FBS and FCS level?

I saw something on Biz Insider from 2017 that said FBS is 3.8 years, and there was a 68% chance a new signee would have a different HC at some point if he stayed 5 years. Pretty interesting!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...otball-players-coaches-recruiting-2017-12?amp

Kind of my point. No recruit should ever think the Head Coach will be there when they are an upper classman.

Agreed. Which is why I agree SA’s and coaches are different animals when it comes to the “oh, you can leave with impunity, but I can’t” one-liners.

Of course, the flip side is maybe it’s also unrealistic for a coach to believe his players will stay all five years, on the off chance the coach is still around for year five? I can see both sides of it. I guess I’d be worried about myself if I couldn’t, haha.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
grizindabox said:
CDAGRIZ said:
grizindabox said:
Anyone know what the average length that a Head Coach stays at a school at the FBS and FCS level?

I saw something on Biz Insider from 2017 that said FBS is 3.8 years, and there was a 68% chance a new signee would have a different HC at some point if he stayed 5 years. Pretty interesting!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...otball-players-coaches-recruiting-2017-12?amp

Kind of my point. No recruit should ever think the Head Coach will be there when they are an upper classman.

Agreed. Which is why I agree SA’s and coaches are different animals when it comes to the “oh, you can leave with impunity, but I can’t” one-liners.

Of course, the flip side is maybe it’s also unrealistic for a coach to believe his players will stay all five years, on the off chance the coach is still around for year five? I can see both sides of it. I guess I’d be worried about myself if I couldn’t, haha.

So maybe they should be treated more like a normal student in relation to school matters and less about coaches in relation to athletic matters.
 
grizindabox said:
CDAGRIZ said:
grizindabox said:
CDAGRIZ said:
I saw something on Biz Insider from 2017 that said FBS is 3.8 years, and there was a 68% chance a new signee would have a different HC at some point if he stayed 5 years. Pretty interesting!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...otball-players-coaches-recruiting-2017-12?amp

Kind of my point. No recruit should ever think the Head Coach will be there when they are an upper classman.

Agreed. Which is why I agree SA’s and coaches are different animals when it comes to the “oh, you can leave with impunity, but I can’t” one-liners.

Of course, the flip side is maybe it’s also unrealistic for a coach to believe his players will stay all five years, on the off chance the coach is still around for year five? I can see both sides of it. I guess I’d be worried about myself if I couldn’t, haha.

So maybe they should be treated more like a normal student in relation to school matters and less about coaches in relation to athletic matters.

Sure. I’m just saying it’s trending more blurry. As can be observed. I don’t think we are the ones to decide it either way. Interesting times, for sure.
 
Well, after a couple of pages of more pissing than discussion, the "other" thread about the rule actually has some useful discussion going. And no, I don't for a minute believe that thread was started to spark "some discussion of the pros and cons of the rule." Not with its focus on Bobby-bashing (starting with the title).

So, to steal an idea: The specific nature of a contract does stand in contrast to the rather vague term "commitment," as noted by PR in the other thread. Since I've never seen the documents for a college athletic scholarship, I don't know how the "contractual" obligations are worded.

I once had an academic scholarship that obligated me to include classes that would improve my skills to teach at the college level, along with my usual major curriculum. I was also expected to first seek employment as a college teacher after I completed my degree. On the flip side, the scholarship grantor only promised to keep sending checks for three or four years (can't recall which), as long as I stayed in good academic standing. They did not offer to later help me get an academic job.

Here's the crux for this discussion: The student-athlete is expected to follow the pertinent college rules and legit "orders" from the coaching staff while competing for a team position. For that, he/she gets a stipend, book allowance, and so on. We've already discussed the absence of a "no-cut" clause. And, so far as I know, schools are not specifically obligated to continue the scholarship if the athlete suffers a career-ending injury. (Or has that changed?)

At the big schools, they get other perks (special tutoring, etc.) not available to the "ordinary" student. So here's question: Are any of those "benefits" spelled out in writing, or simply "understood"?

MODS: Could we perhaps combine the threads discussing the proposed new rule ... ditching the other "hot button" title?
 
IdaGriz01 said:
Well, after a couple of pages of more pissing than discussion, the "other" thread about the rule actually has some useful discussion going. And no, I don't for a minute believe that thread was started to spark "some discussion of the pros and cons of the rule." Not with its focus on Bobby-bashing (starting with the title).

So, to steal an idea: The specific nature of a contract does stand in contrast to the rather vague term "commitment," as noted by PR in the other thread. Since I've never seen the documents for a college athletic scholarship, I don't know how the "contractual" obligations are worded.

I once had an academic scholarship that obligated me to include classes that would improve my skills to teach at the college level, along with my usual major curriculum. I was also expected to first seek employment as a college teacher after I completed my degree. On the flip side, the scholarship grantor only promised to keep sending checks for three or four years (can't recall which), as long as I stayed in good academic standing. They did not offer to later help me get an academic job.

Here's the crux for this discussion: The student-athlete is expected to follow the pertinent college rules and legit "orders" from the coaching staff while competing for a team position. For that, he/she gets a stipend, book allowance, and so on. We've already discussed the absence of a "no-cut" clause. And, so far as I know, schools are not specifically obligated to continue the scholarship if the athlete suffers a career-ending injury. (Or has that changed?)

At the big schools, they get other perks (special tutoring, etc.) not available to the "ordinary" student. So here's question: Are any of those "benefits" spelled out in writing, or simply "understood"?

MODS: Could we perhaps combine the threads discussing the proposed new rule ... ditching the other "hot button" title?

From what I vaguely remember from signing an athletic scholarship (Cross Country / Track & Field) with UM (at the time, early 2000's) - my specific scholarship covered tuition, fees and "X" amount of dollars for books. The scholarship was good for ONE fall semester and ONE spring semester if I was in good academic standing. Then, you essentially sign the same scholarship AGAIN before the next fall semester at the coaches discretion.

So - my main question in the other thread is kind of based on - coaches have buyouts to their contracts. PR's response (mostly listed above) doesn't look like a scholarship is really a commitment or a contract. At the most, it is an agreement between the school and the athlete - for only (in UM's case) a fall semester and a spring semester - ONE school year. After that it is up to the coach if the scholarship is offered again and up to the athlete to accept / sign that offer again.

So as much as we like to yammer about an athlete being committed and on scholarship for four years - they really aren't. They're just committed a year at a time - at least that's what my experience was. Maybe it is (or was) different with other sports. If this new proposal passes - I wouldn't be surprised about athletes wanting to move up and on. We may also be forgetting that just because another more prominent school in a more prominent conference offers an athlete, the athlete can always say "no."

All that said, I'm not for the change because I think there may be a lot of un-intended consequences to lower divisions that we won't see right away. Although with that being said - this change is already available with a bunch of the "non major" (i.e. football, basketball) sports so....this could be much ado nothing or not. Either way, it'll be interesting!
 
The scholarship and related agreement would be deemed to be a contract. The main part is for one year. Other parts of the contract would go on longer. Same thing happens with general employment contracts. At the end of the contract, the confidentiality, any noncompete provisions, etc. continue, as specified in the agreement.


Generally, a contract is a commitment. However, the commitment is defined in the contract.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
...
From what I vaguely remember from signing an athletic scholarship (Cross Country / Track & Field) with UM (at the time, early 2000's) - my specific scholarship covered tuition, fees and "X" amount of dollars for books. The scholarship was good for ONE fall semester and ONE spring semester if I was in good academic standing. Then, you essentially sign the same scholarship AGAIN before the next fall semester at the coaches discretion.

So - my main question in the other thread is kind of based on - coaches have buyouts to their contracts. PR's response (mostly listed above) doesn't look like a scholarship is really a commitment or a contract. At the most, it is an agreement between the school and the athlete - for only (in UM's case) a fall semester and a spring semester - ONE school year. After that it is up to the coach if the scholarship is offered again and up to the athlete to accept / sign that offer again.

So as much as we like to yammer about an athlete being committed and on scholarship for four years - they really aren't. They're just committed a year at a time - at least that's what my experience was. Maybe it is (or was) different with other sports. If this new proposal passes - I wouldn't be surprised about athletes wanting to move up and on. We may also be forgetting that just because another more prominent school in a more prominent conference offers an athlete, the athlete can always say "no."

All that said, I'm not for the change because I think there may be a lot of un-intended consequences to lower divisions that we won't see right away. Although with that being said - this change is already available with a bunch of the "non major" (i.e. football, basketball) sports so....this could be much ado nothing or not. Either way, it'll be interesting!
Thanks! I was pretty sure about the one-year extent of the athletic scholarship, but not totally ... so I didn't mention it. Aside from the tuition, etc., and the "chance" to compete, did the agreement/contract offer any other specific benefits? I assume not. In my view, BTW, I think schools should have a mechanism to give the athlete a "guaranteed" chance at an education if they are injured and can no longer compete. (Subject to getting the grade, of course.)
 
IdaGriz01 said:
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
...
From what I vaguely remember from signing an athletic scholarship (Cross Country / Track & Field) with UM (at the time, early 2000's) - my specific scholarship covered tuition, fees and "X" amount of dollars for books. The scholarship was good for ONE fall semester and ONE spring semester if I was in good academic standing. Then, you essentially sign the same scholarship AGAIN before the next fall semester at the coaches discretion.

So - my main question in the other thread is kind of based on - coaches have buyouts to their contracts. PR's response (mostly listed above) doesn't look like a scholarship is really a commitment or a contract. At the most, it is an agreement between the school and the athlete - for only (in UM's case) a fall semester and a spring semester - ONE school year. After that it is up to the coach if the scholarship is offered again and up to the athlete to accept / sign that offer again.

So as much as we like to yammer about an athlete being committed and on scholarship for four years - they really aren't. They're just committed a year at a time - at least that's what my experience was. Maybe it is (or was) different with other sports. If this new proposal passes - I wouldn't be surprised about athletes wanting to move up and on. We may also be forgetting that just because another more prominent school in a more prominent conference offers an athlete, the athlete can always say "no."

All that said, I'm not for the change because I think there may be a lot of un-intended consequences to lower divisions that we won't see right away. Although with that being said - this change is already available with a bunch of the "non major" (i.e. football, basketball) sports so....this could be much ado nothing or not. Either way, it'll be interesting!
Thanks! I was pretty sure about the one-year extent of the athletic scholarship, but not totally ... so I didn't mention it. Aside from the tuition, etc., and the "chance" to compete, did the agreement/contract offer any other specific benefits? I assume not. In my view, BTW, I think schools should have a mechanism to give the athlete a "guaranteed" chance at an education if they are injured and can no longer compete. (Subject to getting the grade, of course.)

No other “benefits” that I can recall off the top of my head. There were other requirements one of which was a certain amount of hours toward community service I also want to say that I wasn’t allowed to be employed somewhere over “x” amount hours per week - though I could be wrong. Again, this was my experience in the early 2000s for a “non-revenue” sport. Revenue sports scholarships could have been different, but I don’t know.

I don’t have direct experience with this, but I know schools will honor an athletes scholarship if he has a career ending injury competing for the university as long as they remain in good academic standing. Most recent I can remember is a junior that got hurt playing for the university of Washington a couple years ago and the University honored his scholarship.
 
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