Conference Strengths – A Different Slant

[Mousegriz]

Isn’t this the exact argument used by those against a move to the FBS in order to justify how terrible playing in the FBS would be? The fcs is no different, of course, except in my mind, those in the fcs are just playing for a far less significant second place.

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

//
App State, Nevada, Boise St., Georgia Southern, Liberty, W. Kentucky....all moved up......who has moved in or down to replace these programs? FCS has not gotten a lot weaker the past 20 years.

Also Marshall, Troy St. and Coastal Carolina. NDSU, SDSU moved up from DII. And UNC lol....

Yes. I'm a fan and loyal follower but sometimes wonder if this whole FCS deal isn't much ado about not much. Oh......and Idaho moved up/down!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I was talking with a friend (not an FCS follower) about the bracket when it came out this year. I said it’s great that 4 BSC teams got seeds. I explained how it worked and he said something like, “If they don’t even bother seeding the other 16 teams, why not just make the field the top 8 teams?” I didn’t have a good answer on hand.

Cutting it to 8 is probably extreme, but 12 makes sense to me for two reasons: (1) Making the field would be more of an achievement; and (2) it would reduce the chance of a fluke win by a lower team giving another team a cakewalk to the semifinals. Every team would be more worthy.

 

[MikeyGriz]

On any given Friday/Saturday...… That's why they play the game on the field and not on the computer. It's not that it ever or rarely happens, it's that it could happen!

 

[EverettGriz]

Well, the issue addressed was the overall (top-to-bottom) strength of the various conferences.

Still, you address a good point: The last "outsider" was Appalachian State (SoCon) in 2007. That was App State's third championship in a row, and then they moved up, of course. Before that is was Western Kentucky (OVC) in 2002. The Hilltoppers have also since moved up.

Yes, and when App State was ruling the world there were 4 very good, deep conferences. Now 75% of FCS is playing for participation trophies. And actually, about 99% are,outside of NDSU and JMU. :lol:

Isn’t this the exact argument used by those against a move to the FBS in order to justify how terrible playing in the FBS would be? The fcs is no different, of course, except in my mind, those in the fcs are just playing for a far less significant second place.

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

 

[PlayerRep]

Yes, and when App State was ruling the world there were 4 very good, deep conferences. Now 75% of FCS is playing for participation trophies. And actually, about 99% are,outside of NDSU and JMU. :lol:

Isn’t this the exact argument used by those against a move to the FBS in order to justify how terrible playing in the FBS would be? The fcs is no different, of course, except in my mind, those in the fcs are just playing for a far less significant second place.

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

24 FCS teams make the playoffs and get to try to win the championship. Only 4 FBS teams. For any who played the game of football at the college level or is truly close to it, the playoffs are very exciting and a big accomplishment. it's exciting for many who never played the game at any level. In smaller way, so is tournament time in high school basketball. Surprised that you don't seem to understand that.

 

[EverettGriz]

Isn’t this the exact argument used by those against a move to the FBS in order to justify how terrible playing in the FBS would be? The fcs is no different, of course, except in my mind, those in the fcs are just playing for a far less significant second place.

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

24 FCS teams make the playoffs and get to try to win the championship. Only 4 FBS teams. For any who played the game of football at the college level or is truly close to it, the playoffs are very exciting and a big accomplishment. it's exciting for many who never played the game at any level. In smaller way, so is tournament time in high school basketball. Surprised that you don't seem to understand that.

I’m surprised you didn’t read my post.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

24 FCS teams make the playoffs and get to try to win the championship. Only 4 FBS teams. For any who played the game of football at the college level or is truly close to it, the playoffs are very exciting and a big accomplishment. it's exciting for many who never played the game at any level. In smaller way, so is tournament time in high school basketball. Surprised that you don't seem to understand that.

I’m surprised you didn’t read my post.

Did you read mine? Why do you not like and respect the playoffs? Why don't you like and appreciate FCS? The Big Sky?

I find most of your posts to be somewhere between nonsensical and wrong, so I don't spend much time on them.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

I was talking with a friend (not an FCS follower) about the bracket when it came out this year. I said it’s great that 4 BSC teams got seeds. I explained how it worked and he said something like, “If they don’t even bother seeding the other 16 teams, why not just make the field the top 8 teams?” I didn’t have a good answer on hand.

Cutting it to 8 is probably extreme, but 12 makes sense to me for two reasons: (1) Making the field would be more of an achievement; and (2) it would reduce the chance of a fluke win by a lower team giving another team a cakewalk to the semifinals. Every team would be more worthy.

I agree with you.

I think one of the main reasons for expanding it was to give more teams an opportunity to play another game after the regular season ended (similar to bowls).

Hasn’t happened often but Western Kentucky did win the championship as a #13 team and YSU made the title game as an unseeded team.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

Yes, and when App State was ruling the world there were 4 very good, deep conferences. Now 75% of FCS is playing for participation trophies. And actually, about 99% are,outside of NDSU and JMU. :lol:

Isn’t this the exact argument used by those against a move to the FBS in order to justify how terrible playing in the FBS would be? The fcs is no different, of course, except in my mind, those in the fcs are just playing for a far less significant second place.

I don't think it's a far less significant second place to the guys playing. That's why there are divisions in football. Do you think the kids playing for the Class B or C championship are playing for second or third place?

//
App State, Nevada, Boise St., Georgia Southern, Liberty, W. Kentucky....all moved up......who has moved in or down to replace these programs? FCS has not gotten a lot weaker the past 20 years.

NDSU, SDSU, UC Davis, Cal Poly, USD, UND

Liberty made the playoffs one time. Can’t really say it was much of a loss.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I was talking with a friend (not an FCS follower) about the bracket when it came out this year. I said it’s great that 4 BSC teams got seeds. I explained how it worked and he said something like, “If they don’t even bother seeding the other 16 teams, why not just make the field the top 8 teams?” I didn’t have a good answer on hand.

Cutting it to 8 is probably extreme, but 12 makes sense to me for two reasons: (1) Making the field would be more of an achievement; and (2) it would reduce the chance of a fluke win by a lower team giving another team a cakewalk to the semifinals. Every team would be more worthy.

Yep, good point there. The 2002 playoff, when that “marginal” (by the polls) Western Kentucky team went all the way makes for an interesting example. Here’s how the first round was laid out, with the four seeds shown in [brackets].

[1] McNeese vs Montana State
[2] Western Illinois vs Eastern Illinois
[3] Georgia Southern vs Bethune-Cookman
[4] Northeastern vs Fordham
Montana vs Northwestern State
Villanova vs Furman
Appalachian State vs Maine
Western Kentucky vs Murray State

To drop down to twelve teams, the logical thing would be to give the four seeds a bye in the first round, dropping their opponents from the bid list. The only bracket change might be to have Eastern Illinois (8-3) replace Murray State (7-4) as the opponent for Western Kentucky. The two were co-champs of the OVC, but Eastern was ranked #10 in the polls, while Murray was #23. This would have bounced the #21, #23, and #24 ranked teams from the field. The other “loss” would be Bethune-Cookman which, even back then, represented one of the weakest conferences in the FCS/1-AA.

But other than that, there would be no difference. The one “upset” of a seeded team (Fordham over Northeastern, 29-24) washed out in the next round. McNeese would have still marched through their side of the bracket to reach the championship game. Western Kentucky would have done the same on their side to face McNeese and win the Nattie.

It's "nice" that a bunch of weak-a** teams get to say they've been in the playoffs. But it also costs a lot more money and dilutes the quality of the competition.

 

[SubGriz]

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

That makes no sense about the intramural league. If Alabama wins the national championship this year, will it be significant? After all, they're playing for a much less significant second place to the Super Bowl.

The number of FBS teams with a shot at the title is certainly relevant to a discussion of moving up; the Griz are one of the teams with a shot of winning the FCS title. If we moved up, we wouldn't be.

 

[uofmman1122]

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

That makes no sense about the intramural league. If Alabama wins the national championship this year, will it be significant? After all, they're playing for a much less significant second place to the Super Bowl

I'd say, since they aren't even in the playoff.

 

[SubGriz]

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

That makes no sense about the intramural league. If Alabama wins the national championship this year, will it be significant? After all, they're playing for a much less significant second place to the Super Bowl

I'd say, since they aren't even in the playoff.

Lol, I don't follow FBS. Just used Alabama as an example. Substitute Team X and the point stands.

 

[MontanaJack2006]

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

That makes no sense about the intramural league. If Alabama wins the national championship this year, will it be significant? After all, they're playing for a much less significant second place to the Super Bowl

I'd say, since they aren't even in the playoff.

Lol, I don't follow FBS. Just used Alabama as an example. Substitute Team X and the point stands.

I beat Mike Tyson in Punch Out. Alabama football couldn't do that.

 

[EverettGriz]

Players and fans should be proud of winning a championship at any level. But that doesn’t make them significant. My intramural co-Ed softball team won its division this year. Significant to anyone but the 15 of us on the team?

But that really wasn’t the point of the post. I just find it wildly ironic when so many posters say they don’t want to move the FBS level because only 20 teams have a legit shot at winning the title. When the truth is, fewer fcs teams have that opportunity.

That makes no sense about the intramural league. If Alabama wins the national championship this year, will it be significant? After all, they're playing for a much less significant second place to the Super Bowl.

The number of FBS teams with a shot at the title is certainly relevant to a discussion of moving up; the Griz are one of the teams with a shot of winning the FCS title. If we moved up, we wouldn't be.

To your first point: ?? Bama would be winning the highest level of championship available in college football. That’s relevant.

Ah! Now we’re getting somewhere! So, using your reasoning, you no doubt support all 95 fcs teams who have no shot at the title to move down to DII.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I was talking with a friend (not an FCS follower) about the bracket when it came out this year. I said it’s great that 4 BSC teams got seeds. I explained how it worked and he said something like, “If they don’t even bother seeding the other 16 teams, why not just make the field the top 8 teams?” I didn’t have a good answer on hand.

Cutting it to 8 is probably extreme, but 12 makes sense to me for two reasons: (1) Making the field would be more of an achievement; and (2) it would reduce the chance of a fluke win by a lower team giving another team a cakewalk to the semifinals. Every team would be more worthy.

I agree with you.

I think one of the main reasons for expanding it was to give more teams an opportunity to play another game after the regular season ended (similar to bowls).

Hasn’t happened often but Western Kentucky did win the championship as a #13 team and YSU made the title game as an unseeded team.

And since 2007 no team outside of BSC, CAA or MFVC has made the finals.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

I was talking with a friend (not an FCS follower) about the bracket when it came out this year. I said it’s great that 4 BSC teams got seeds. I explained how it worked and he said something like, “If they don’t even bother seeding the other 16 teams, why not just make the field the top 8 teams?” I didn’t have a good answer on hand.

Cutting it to 8 is probably extreme, but 12 makes sense to me for two reasons: (1) Making the field would be more of an achievement; and (2) it would reduce the chance of a fluke win by a lower team giving another team a cakewalk to the semifinals. Every team would be more worthy.

I agree with you.

I think one of the main reasons for expanding it was to give more teams an opportunity to play another game after the regular season ended (similar to bowls).

Hasn’t happened often but Western Kentucky did win the championship as a #13 team and YSU made the title game as an unseeded team.

And since 2007 no team outside of BSC, CAA or MFVC has made the finals.

That is not accurate. Sam Houston State made it twice out of the Southland and Jacksonville State made it out of the OVC.

 

[argh!]

In the last 20 years...

MVFC- 12 National championship game appearances. 8 national championship teams

CAA- 7 National championship game appearances. 5 national championship teams

Big Sky- 7 National championship game appearances. 2 national championship teams

Merry Christmas Eve on eGriz, Butters.

if you mean south park's butters, please, find another name for this fat! butters may have some flaws, but he is infinitely more likable and interesting.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Amazing where a thread can go. It’s very interesting to see how the “Big Three” conferences really have dominated the FCS national championship. (The “move up” side trip … not so much. )

Turns out, the way the best Big Sky teams separated themselves into a block by the Sagarin rank number resulted in an equally interesting Strength of Schedule pattern. The weak sisters in the conference did get hammered down in the Sagarin by having to play at least some of the top teams. On the other hand, it did wonders for their SOS. The average SOS for BSC, MVFC, CAA: were 53.2, 51.1, and 49.3 … not all that different. But the team SOS values are mostly together out ahead of the MVFC and CAA.

In case you’re wondering the high “outliers” for the MVFC were Missouri State and Northern Iowa. That tough scheduled killed Om State, but it benefitted UNI in terms of an at-large bid.

56.5		
55.8		
55.4	55.2	MoSt
54.7		
54.4	54.0	UNI
53.8		
53.5		
52.9		
52.9		
52.2		
51.7	51.9	51.7
	51.6	51.3
	50.9	51.1
	50.5	50.2
	50.4	49.9
49.4	49.6	49.7
		49.4
48.6	48.4	48.9
	48.4	48.2
		47.9
		47.9
		45.2

 

[kemajic]

For any who played the game of football at the college level or is truly close to it, the playoffs are very exciting and a big accomplishment. it's exciting for many who never played the game at any level.

So exciting that one would think the games would attract decent attendance. But...