Conference realignment talks hit the Mountain West

[EverettGriz]

I find it laughable that people continue to use terms like "second-rate bowl", "meaningless, un-watched bowl", and the all-time classic "toilet bowl" when discussing a move (it's not a move up any longer, just a move) to the FBS.

WTF do you all think the fcs "national" championship is?? It's a second-rate, meaningless, un-watched game that airs at 9:00 am and is played in a soccer stadium. And it costs the program money to play in it.

Point taken that viewership of the dozens of "toilet bowls" is comparable, or slightly larger, than the FCS Championship game. However, those bowls are just year-end back ground noise to fill the dates before and around the "Real" bowl games. Not to mention virtually all those second tier bowl games COST THEIR SCHOOLS MORE MONEY TO PLAY IN than they're "paid" to come.

Look at the FBS Sunbelt Conference. At one point I believe everyone of those teams were FCS. They all 'jumped us' if you will. Yet jumped us into what? Not only will they not have a hope in Hell of ever being in the FBS playoffs, they don't really even have a chance to be in one of the "Real" bowl games.

If I'm wrong name which of those teams ever played in the Orange, Citrus, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose bowls. If they have a FABULOUS season they may get an invite to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl in Mobile, AL, or a chance to fly out west and play the December bowl game in Boise.

If the Griz have a FABULOUS season they are in the playoffs. There is a chance to compete in three potentially exciting playoff games. Finally a chance to earn a National Championship. No it's not drawing the eyes of the nation. None the less, it is a fun, exciting, and well earned experience that beats the heck out of an imminently forgettable, one shot bowl game that also does not draw the eyes of the nation.

First, I don't consider us peers with ANY programs in the Sunbelt. More along the lines of Boise State and Appalachian State, who've done just fine at the FBS level, thank you. And again, you make fun of the bowl games and where they're played, but the fcs game is in freakin Frisco, played at a time most haven't had their morning coffee, and is not even played in a facility made for its sport. You'd be hard-pressed to find a bowl game as sad as that.

Mind you, I'm fully on record as preferring a playoffs at the G5 level. But the lack of it in the short run shouldn't deter us from moving to a level at which we belong, and which will greatly benefit not only the football program, but also all other athletics and the university as a whole.

 

[Jaredkuehn]

I always thought that the Dakota Schools, Montana Schools and Idaho Schools should ban together and move up as an 8 team Highline Conference made up of flagship schools from those states. That's probably more likely than getting an invite from the MWC.

If you think that's likely, it's as an FCS conference since the NCAA is not allowing new FBS conferences. And while you pan on travel to the midwest, where do you think the Dakota schools are? On the borders of MN and Iowa.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh the joy of trying to form a cogent thought in Egriz! You come in and question everyone's thoughts, but don't provide any meaningful insights of your own? Way to add to the conversation!

Tell us what you think Kem? Stay put or move up? If we stay put, are you happy with the current situation in the BSC? If we move up, where do you see us landing?

The distance from Missoula to Souix Falls is 870 Miles. The distance From Missoula to Flagstaff is 837 Miles. Yes, the Dakota's are in the Midwest, but they are bordering states. The distances travelled to the Dakotas would be comparable to what Montana schools already experience in the Big Sky. Thanks for geography lesson though!

My comment about traveling to "the Midwest and beyond" was in reference to the comparison of Idaho being in the Sunbelt and having to travel to Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc. I suppose traveling to Troy Alabama is basically the same as traveling to Vermillion South Dakota, right? Maybe I'm missing the other Western FBS conference that would offer a good home to the Montana schools. You seem to have all the answers, so please enlighten us.

 

[grizindabox]

Should have said Why would we———

So based on a victory over Washington, you think the Griz should be playing Alabama on a yearly basis?

That's like getting laid once and thinking you are on par with Bill Russell.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So based on a victory over Washington, you think the Griz should be playing Alabama on a yearly basis?

That's like getting laid once and thinking you are on par with Bill Russell.

I think you meant Wilt Chamberlain. :lol: :lol:

 

[grizindabox]

That's like getting laid once and thinking you are on par with Bill Russell.

I think you meant Wilt Chamberlain. :lol: :lol:

Kinda effed that one up.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Montana is seriously challenged to pay for their existing programs, with COVID on top of that. Let us all know if You have got an extra $3-4 million to donate to UM. :fuel: :fuel:

And again, you make fun of the bowl games and where they're played, but the fcs game is in freakin Frisco, played at a time most haven't had their morning coffee, and is not even played in a facility made for its sport. You'd be hard-pressed to find a bowl game as sad as that.

Mind you, I'm fully on record as preferring a playoffs at the G5 level. But the lack of it in the short run shouldn't deter us from moving to a level at which we belong, and which will greatly benefit not only the football program, but also all other athletics and the university as a whole.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Point taken that viewership of the dozens of "toilet bowls" is comparable, or slightly larger, than the FCS Championship game. However, those bowls are just year-end back ground noise to fill the dates before and around the "Real" bowl games. Not to mention virtually all those second tier bowl games COST THEIR SCHOOLS MORE MONEY TO PLAY IN than they're "paid" to come.

Look at the FBS Sunbelt Conference. At one point I believe everyone of those teams were FCS. They all 'jumped us' if you will. Yet jumped us into what? Not only will they not have a hope in Hell of ever being in the FBS playoffs, they don't really even have a chance to be in one of the "Real" bowl games.

If I'm wrong name which of those teams ever played in the Orange, Citrus, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose bowls. If they have a FABULOUS season they may get an invite to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl in Mobile, AL, or a chance to fly out west and play the December bowl game in Boise.

If the Griz have a FABULOUS season they are in the playoffs. There is a chance to compete in three potentially exciting playoff games. Finally a chance to earn a National Championship. No it's not drawing the eyes of the nation. None the less, it is a fun, exciting, and well earned experience that beats the heck out of an imminently forgettable, one shot bowl game that also does not draw the eyes of the nation.

First, I don't consider us peers with ANY programs in the Sunbelt. More along the lines of Boise State and Appalachian State, who've done just fine at the FBS level, thank you. And again, you make fun of the bowl games and where they're played, but the fcs game is in freakin Frisco, played at a time most haven't had their morning coffee, and is not even played in a facility made for its sport. You'd be hard-pressed to find a bowl game as sad as that.

Mind you, I'm fully on record as preferring a playoffs at the G5 level. But the lack of it in the short run shouldn't deter us from moving to a level at which we belong, and which will greatly benefit not only the football program, but also all other athletics and the university as a whole.

I think you both make great points here. I love being in the FCS Playoff hunt, and I love bowl games. I guess I just love CFB. The point about the time-honored "Toilet Bowl" being nothing doesn't really fly when you look at the FCS Playoffs. I don't think there are many fans of FBS teams that want to move to FCS so they can play in a "real playoff". Believe it or not, I actually follow a couple FBS programs pretty closely. The bowls are not meaningless to the players, coaches, or fans. When a team gets a postseason bowl win, they don't view it as "big whoop, means nothing". They view it as a success, and they should. Just my opinion.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I think you meant Wilt Chamberlain. :lol: :lol:

Kinda effed that one up.

I’m sure, however, Bill Russell got his share of tail. :lol: :lol:

 

[Yukon]

I find it laughable that people continue to use terms like "second-rate bowl", "meaningless, un-watched bowl", and the all-time classic "toilet bowl" when discussing a move (it's not a move up any longer, just a move) to the FBS.

WTF do you all think the fcs "national" championship is?? It's a second-rate, meaningless, un-watched game that airs at 9:00 am and is played in a soccer stadium. And it costs the program money to play in it.


Yay.

So winning a national championship would mean nothing to you then? I realize that the FCS doesn’t get a lot of coverage but come on Everett. Sports are about competing for a championship. As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money. I’d love to see the players take a vote on whether they’d like to compete for a championship or play in a second rate bowl game, cause I think I know what the answer would be. There will come a time where a move up maybe worth it but that time is not now and not until the G5 has a reasonable playoff system. Until that’s the case, I have no desire to go anywhere.

Then why do players go to G5 FBS? With that statement, you would think every non P5 player would be begging to play FCS.

 

[Yukon]

I find it laughable that people continue to use terms like "second-rate bowl", "meaningless, un-watched bowl", and the all-time classic "toilet bowl" when discussing a move (it's not a move up any longer, just a move) to the FBS.

WTF do you all think the fcs "national" championship is?? It's a second-rate, meaningless, un-watched game that airs at 9:00 am and is played in a soccer stadium. And it costs the program money to play in it.

Point taken that viewership of the dozens of "toilet bowls" is comparable, or slightly larger, than the FCS Championship game. However, those bowls are just year-end back ground noise to fill the dates before and around the "Real" bowl games. Not to mention virtually all those second tier bowl games COST THEIR SCHOOLS MORE MONEY TO PLAY IN than they're "paid" to come.

Look at the FBS Sunbelt Conference. At one point I believe everyone of those teams were FCS. They all 'jumped us' if you will. Yet jumped us into what? Not only will they not have a hope in Hell of ever being in the FBS playoffs, they don't really even have a chance to be in one of the "Real" bowl games.

If I'm wrong name which of those teams ever played in the Orange, Citrus, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose bowls. If they have a FABULOUS season they may get an invite to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl in Mobile, AL, or a chance to fly out west and play the December bowl game in Boise.

If the Griz have a FABULOUS season they are in the playoffs. There is a chance to compete in three potentially exciting playoff games. Finally a chance to earn a National Championship. No it's not drawing the eyes of the nation. None the less, it is a fun, exciting, and well earned experience that beats the heck out of an imminently forgettable, one shot bowl game that also does not draw the eyes of the nation.

I know you mentioned the Sunbelt, but as for the MWC, Boise St has won the Fiesta Bowl 3 times.

 

[tnt]

I have believed for about 10 years the FBS will come calling... I would not move unless there is a true playoff system in a new 2nd tier division FBS.

There is a second tier FBS . Its called the FCS

 

[Grizbeer]

Montana is seriously challenged to pay for their existing programs, with COVID on top of that. Let us all know if You have got an extra $3-4 million to donate to UM. :fuel: :fuel:

Is the cost to move to the MWC really only $3-4 million per year? That seems east. Arkansas state got $1.75 million to play UW, UM got $675k. Thats +$1 million just for being FBS (and being MWC gives more opportunities for these games).

The MWC tv payout is $4 million per year. I believe the new BSC payout is the same as the old, $0

Thats +$5 million (of which the majority goes to pay for increased scholarship revenue to UM) before we discuss ncaa tournament shares.

The $3-4 million can’t be right, based on the math that’s a no brainer.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Montana is seriously challenged to pay for their existing programs, with COVID on top of that. Let us all know if You have got an extra $3-4 million to donate to UM. :fuel: :fuel:

Is the cost to move to the MWC really only $3-4 million per year? That seems east. Arkansas state got $1.75 million to play UW, UM got $675k. Thats +$1 million just for being FBS (and being MWC gives more opportunities for these games).

The MWC tv payout is $4 million per year. I believe the new BSC payout is the same as the old, $0

Thats +$5 million (of which the majority goes to pay for increased scholarship revenue to UM) before we discuss ncaa tournament shares.

The $3-4 million can’t be right, based on the math that’s a no brainer.

MWC payout is $4mm PER school?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

So winning a national championship would mean nothing to you then? I realize that the FCS doesn’t get a lot of coverage but come on Everett. Sports are about competing for a championship. As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money. I’d love to see the players take a vote on whether they’d like to compete for a championship or play in a second rate bowl game, cause I think I know what the answer would be. There will come a time where a move up maybe worth it but that time is not now and not until the G5 has a reasonable playoff system. Until that’s the case, I have no desire to go anywhere.

Then why do players go to G5 FBS? With that statement, you would think every non P5 player would be begging to play FCS.

That's a good point. The G5 teams seem to be able to field teams each year, and we are always stoked when a player drops down to UM from one of those programs. Also, not talking about a specific player, but we get pretty excited when someone commits to UM with offers from (for example) Colorado State, Wyoming, and/or Nevada.

 

[kemajic]

If you think that's likely, it's as an FCS conference since the NCAA is not allowing new FBS conferences. And while you pan on travel to the midwest, where do you think the Dakota schools are? On the borders of MN and Iowa.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh the joy of trying to form a cogent thought in Egriz! You come in and question everyone's thoughts, but don't provide any meaningful insights of your own? Way to add to the conversation!

Tell us what you think Kem? Stay put or move up? If we stay put, are you happy with the current situation in the BSC? If we move up, where do you see us landing?

The distance from Missoula to Souix Falls is 870 Miles. The distance From Missoula to Flagstaff is 837 Miles. Yes, the Dakota's are in the Midwest, but they are bordering states. The distances travelled to the Dakotas would be comparable to what Montana schools already experience in the Big Sky. Thanks for geography lesson though!

My comment about traveling to "the Midwest and beyond" was in reference to the comparison of Idaho being in the Sunbelt and having to travel to Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc. I suppose traveling to Troy Alabama is basically the same as traveling to Vermillion South Dakota, right? Maybe I'm missing the other Western FBS conference that would offer a good home to the Montana schools. You seem to have all the answers, so please enlighten us.

I would be all for a move up if there were an opportunity, but there currently isn't, so until there might be, silly dreaming is not for me in my world of realism.

You were touting your idea as a regional travel improvement which you just shot down. Most fans would drive to the Dakota games, since connections are so bad. So continuing with the geography lesson, the shortest distance Missoula to Grand Forks is 1008 mi, to Fargo 951, to Brookings 994, to Vermillion 1039. You drop shorter trips to EWU, PSU, Weber and call this an improvement.

I don't question everyone's thoughts, just thoughts like this.

 

[dupuyer griz]

I’ve seen Boise State, App State etc mentioned numerous times. Keep in mind for every one of those successful programs there’s a UMass and idaho.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I’ve seen Boise State, App State etc mentioned numerous times. Keep in mind for every one of those successful programs there’s a UMass and idaho.

That's for sure. Another thing that's for sure is (I believe) we're a lot more like Boise or App than UI or UMass when it comes to facilities, support, fan interest, etc.

 

[citygriz]

In college athletics you have the Super-Rich, a.k.a. the Power Five. They live in huge stadia and opulent arenas and make staggering sums of money both at the gate and from television. They've stolen the money.

Then you have the Middle Class, a.k.a. The Group of Five. They survive nicely owing to the fact they too have reasonably nice stadia and arenas but can always make the rent by paying visits to the Power Five. Once in a generation, one of these teams makes it to the BCS where the REAL money flows.

Finally, you have your tired, your poor, your huddled masses—the FCS. Generally, rickety football stadia, high school gyms instead of arenas, and little revenue from TV. Most of these schools exist on the largesse of the Power Five, who generously dole out enough money for a body bag game to keep the athletic budget afloat. Like society’s lower classes, who survive on well-intended but meaningless phrases like “Military Hero,” “First Responder,” and “Thanks for your Service!”, the poor FCS is handed a garish outsized trophy for their Champions Center…Congratulations! National Champions!

But no money.

So where is Montana?

Middle class; poor neighborhood.

Thus: If you want the soothing but meaningless accolades—“National Championship,” “FCS Power”—stay where we are.

If you’re worried about money, it’s time to move up. The Power Five schools and their fanbases are screaming bloody murder about these embarrassments against the FCS. Those games will dry up. And while we’re thrilled about being on ESPN2, this is a fluke. The TV money has already dried up.

My guess—and hope?

Follow the money.

 

[Griz til I die]

First, I don't consider us peers with ANY programs in the Sunbelt. More along the lines of Boise State and Appalachian State, who've done just fine at the FBS level, thank you. And again, you make fun of the bowl games and where they're played, but the fcs game is in freakin Frisco, played at a time most haven't had their morning coffee, and is not even played in a facility made for its sport. You'd be hard-pressed to find a bowl game as sad as that.

Mind you, I'm fully on record as preferring a playoffs at the G5 level. But the lack of it in the short run shouldn't deter us from moving to a level at which we belong, and which will greatly benefit not only the football program, but also all other athletics and the university as a whole.

I think you both make great points here. I love being in the FCS Playoff hunt, and I love bowl games. I guess I just love CFB. The point about the time-honored "Toilet Bowl" being nothing doesn't really fly when you look at the FCS Playoffs. I don't think there are many fans of FBS teams that want to move to FCS so they can play in a "real playoff". Believe it or not, I actually follow a couple FBS programs pretty closely. The bowls are not meaningless to the players, coaches, or fans. When a team gets a postseason bowl win, they don't view it as "big whoop, means nothing". They view it as a success, and they should. Just my opinion.

The bowl games are not meaningless to players or coaches because that’s all they’ve ever known. There’s never been a playoff system so that’s all they have to be excited about. If the G5 had a playoff system, I guarantee you that every coach and player would say that compared to a playoff system, bowl games are completely meaningless.

Hell, look no further than Southeastern Louisiana coach Frank Scelfo. In his weekly press conference before the Griz playoff game, he spoke about how much more awesome a true playoff system is over bowl games. I believe his quote was along the lines of “I guarantee you our guys would rather have another opportunity to play, as opposed to hats and T-shirts”. So ya, they’re not meaningless to them because it’s all they’ve ever had, but I guarantee you if they had a playoff system, they’d never wanna go back to bowl games.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

Look at the FBS Sunbelt Conference. At one point I believe everyone of those teams were FCS. They all 'jumped us' if you will. Yet jumped us into what? Not only will they not have a hope in Hell of ever being in the FBS playoffs, they don't really even have a chance to be in one of the "Real" bowl games.

If I'm wrong name which of those teams ever played in the Orange, Citrus, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose bowls. If they have a FABULOUS season they may get an invite to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl in Mobile, AL, or a chance to fly out west and play the December bowl game in Boise.

If the Griz have a FABULOUS season they are in the playoffs. There is a chance to compete in three potentially exciting playoff games. Finally a chance to earn a National Championship. No it's not drawing the eyes of the nation. None the less, it is a fun, exciting, and well earned experience that beats the heck out of an imminently forgettable, one shot bowl game that also does not draw the eyes of the nation.

I know you mentioned the Sunbelt, but as for the MWC, Boise St has won the Fiesta Bowl 3 times.

I used the Sun Belt Conference as an example because I believe all ten members were once FCS/1AA. Some went FBS in the past few years, others have been there for decades. Several have had good seasons, though NONE have experienced real success.

Boise has been the poster child of the best possible outcome for a former FCS. They are 1 out of 100. They kind of suck this year. So instead let's watch Coastal Carolina this year. They're rolling and rank in the top 20. Let's say they finish the season undefeated. Are they headed anywhere near the FBS playoffs? Are they even headed to one of the prestige bowl games? I believe we all know the answers to these questions.