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Comparing the 2015 Griz with prior Griz teams

AZGrizFan said:
reinell30 said:
I disagree with judging the 2015 team at this time...they haven't even played one down...let's hold this thread until at least the halfway point of the season. We have a lot of new this year...give them a chance!
Is our recruiting as good as it can be? IMO I do not believe it is as good as some years, but every program experiences ups and downs...no team gets every player they want, ever! Is this a down year, only time will tell...I do not believe in fortune tellers!

Yeah. Gustafson's inferior. Dude hasn't barely touched the field and Growler's already throwing him under the bus. :roll: :roll:

Do you always have to be a dick in every thread? Show me where I threw him under the bus? I said the QB position would be weaker than our QBs from the past. And that's throwing him under the bus? Why don't you give us your expert analysis. I need a good laugh before retiring for the night!
 
Sam A. Blitz said:
Funny reading 50+ old men, whose probably have never played a down of organized football use words like "inferior" to describe players that they have not even watched play a down of football under a new staff yet. Would like to see you tell any of those players that they are inferior to their face... Go drink some metamucil and go to bed...

Some fans are capable of analyzing football talent. Some are not. Any clue where you might fit in? :lol:
 
BWahlberg said:
Atlanta Griz1 said:
In your comparison, please rank them as one of the following: 1) better than the Griz teams of old 2) equal to Griz teams of old; or, 3) inferior to Griz teams of old.

Here are my rankings.

QB - inferior
RB - inferior
OL - inferior
DL - equal to
LB - equal to
CB - equal to
S - inferior
WR - superior

However this isn't so easy as this. There's two things that are taken out of context:

1. The different systems. Will a Stitt-era running back be "inferior" compared to a Hauck-era one? Well it depends. Bobby mostly wanted work-horse power backs that he could give the ball to 30+ times per game. Stitt wants pass protectors who will run but are more dangerous as receivers.

2. The 2015 Griz haven't played a real game yet. Really hard to make comparisons on a team that's yet to lace them up for the year and compare them to teams that have. You say to "take of the maroon glasses" so does that just mean we should be pessimists and bash the hell out of guys based on spring camp alone? It could swing the other way and many of these guys could turn out to be pretty good.

------------

Taking in the context of the offense

QB - inferior, mostly due to the fact that all of our QBs are unproven, not because they are bad. Could change quickly once the season gets goint

RB - Equal to. The running backs we have fit this system by the virtue of who has risen to the top (Nguyen and Logwood). They're not power backs, no, but honestly Lex Hilliard and Justin Green would probably have been afterthoughts in this type of offense as well. The backs we have fit, if they'll be "superior" that remains yet to be seen.

OL - Inferior to. We have an OL of guys mostly groomed to be run blockers who are rapidly being re-trained on fundamentals. We've got experience at every spot but one and have the size and the right coach. This group could come in as one of the most improved over 2014. For now, inferior to others but that could change even by fall camp.

DL - Equal to. Holmes is the star, lots of solid but not "flashy" guys in Peevey, Kidder, Bradley, and Crittenden.

LB - Superior. Have we had better individual linebackers? Sure. We had 3 guys playing together that are now all in the professional ranks... but that group had major consistency issues on the field. These LBs are better equipped to cover the pass in a pass-heavy league and play better as a unit than maybe any LB corps save the 2006/07 teams. The 2-deep is stacked. This is almost as good of a group as we've seen in the last 20 years.

CB - Equal to. This group is much better than more CB groupings we've seen but they're young and inconsistent for now. Harris, Nelson, McKinley, and Sanders as a group are pretty good but need to prove it against pass-heavy teams before they can be considered as some sort of incredible group.

S - Superior to. Since others use their forward guess work to tear players and positions down I'll flip it for safety. This group is already incredibly improved and looks to return to or even be better than some of the better safety pairings we've had in the past. Whitted, Dallaserra, and Rasmussen are going to be a great group this season.

WR - Equal to. We've got 1 game-breaker that we know of in Henderson, a 2nd reliable and rock-steady 1000 yard guy in Jamaal Jones. After that there's great rising potential (Burke, Janssen, Carlson, Naccarato) and the usual egriz freak out about transfers being the greatest thing ever. This group could become great but may not show much if our QBs can't make this system work. We've had a lot of WR groups as good or better than this one. Thinking of the Don Read era we had 3 to 4 Ellis Henderson type WRs on the field at once.

Three points about your post. First, we are not talking "systems" here, we are talking talent. There is no way any of our RBs are in the same league talent-wise as guys like Green, Humphrey, Hilliard, et. al.

Second, are you really serious that our current safeties are superior to teams from that era? Our safety play the past 3-4 years has been abysmal! We have seen all of these guys play, except for Ras, and he has yet to prove anything. I don't think many Griz fans will agree with you on this one!

Last, Don Read never had 3-4 Henderson-type WRs on the same team. Please! Henderson has NFL skills. So does Jones. Never did Read have two on the same team with skills like these two have.
 
Atlanta Griz1 said:
Sam A. Blitz said:
Funny reading 50+ old men, whose probably have never played a down of organized football use words like "inferior" to describe players that they have not even watched play a down of football under a new staff yet. Would like to see you tell any of those players that they are inferior to their face... Go drink some metamucil and go to bed...

Some fans are capable of analyzing football talent. Some are not. Any clue where you might fit in? :lol:

Wrong. Almost all fans do not. You especially.
 
Not trying to be a dick. Actually think this is a well operated forum and I enjoy reading some information and thoughts from folks who try to have discussions instead of trying to stroke their ego. I have a problem when self-proclaimed experts (who probably haven't sniffed a down of organized football) put the diss on players and act like their word is fact. Fact is, even folks who do have experience playing or coaching the game cannot make any reasonable assessment of how this team is going to perform next year. If you think you can and if you think you are able to make claims of accurate assessment on players talents at this point of the year, you are only proving that you can't be taken seriously...
 
I think that having 2 coaches working with QBs is going to have a pretty big effect on that position, I like Brady. People aren't high on him because he isn't mobile and the griz have always had a qb with the run threat, I believe he's going to have 2 big years for the griz.

D-line I think may struggle this year, losing Wags, Rehm and Takai will hurt.
I also think RB is in for a rough year potentially, Justin has is work cut out for him with a new slate of guys.
WR has problems with depth, we have some really good guys but we need more to step up obviously. If Stitt isn't happy with them then I trust that there is an issue.
OL will improve from last year, still a work in progress but I think Germer is the guy to get it done.
LB is going to be great, I'm excited to see more aggressive schemes.
I'm with BW in thinking that the secondary is going to be solid, we are recruiting a lot of good guys at that position and I think we will be set at that position for a long time.
CB I hope is solid, but I don't know enough on that to draw any conclusions.

Overall, for the weak BSC I think we have the team to perhaps surprise people and win the conference this year. If DL and secondary reload we will be a force to be reckoned with.
 
westnodak93bison said:
What MT team would you consider its best? 1995?
My money was on 2001, literally. Before the season began I bought a plane ticket to Chattanooga. Needless to say it was a wise investment!
 
Atlanta Griz1 said:
AZGrizFan said:
reinell30 said:
I disagree with judging the 2015 team at this time...they haven't even played one down...let's hold this thread until at least the halfway point of the season. We have a lot of new this year...give them a chance!
Is our recruiting as good as it can be? IMO I do not believe it is as good as some years, but every program experiences ups and downs...no team gets every player they want, ever! Is this a down year, only time will tell...I do not believe in fortune tellers!

Yeah. Gustafson's inferior. Dude hasn't barely touched the field and Growler's already throwing him under the bus. :roll: :roll:

Do you always have to be a dick in every thread? Show me where I threw him under the bus? I said the QB position would be weaker than our QBs from the past. And that's throwing him under the bus? Why don't you give us your expert analysis. I need a good laugh before retiring for the night!

My expert analysis is this: None of us (and that includes YOU, dipshit) have a single goddamned clue how our QB--or any OTHER position for that matter--is going to compare with "prior Griz teams". NONE of these players have played together as a complete unit before. NONE of these players have played for this particular coaching staff before. NONE of these players have, as a group, been afforded the opportunity to show the full capability of what they can do on a football field. To presume some "expert" analysis on something like this is pure fucking guesswork, and calling ANYONE in this group inferior--especially before they've taken a single snap as the starting QB of this team--is asshattery at the highest level. Something we've come to expect from you.
 
Sam A. Blitz said:
Not trying to be a dick. Actually think this is a well operated forum and I enjoy reading some information and thoughts from folks who try to have discussions instead of trying to stroke their ego. I have a problem when self-proclaimed experts (who probably haven't sniffed a down of organized football) put the diss on players and act like their word is fact. Fact is, even folks who do have experience playing or coaching the game cannot make any reasonable assessment of how this team is going to perform next year. If you think you can and if you think you are able to make claims of accurate assessment on players talents at this point of the year, you are only proving that you can't be taken seriously...

Spot on. :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
CV Griz Fan said:
Atlanta Griz1 said:
Over at Maroonblood, we are having a lively discussion about how long it may take for the Griz to return to elite status, both in the Big Sky, and nationally.

I believe that any reasonable Griz fan, if he removes his maroon-colored glasses, will admit that our recruiting and coaching the past few years has not been on par with the period between 1995 till when Hauck left. Yes, I read all of the flowery posts about how awesome each recruit is when they are signed. And, yes, some of them are as good as the level we used to get. But, so many of these heralded recruits are not panning out on the field. They are more Bobcat-like, instead of Grizzly-like.

I think it may be interesting to compare our current position players to the average position players of past Griz teams from the era mentioned above. In your comparison, please rank them as one of the following: 1) better than the Griz teams of old 2) equal to Griz teams of old; or, 3) inferior to Griz teams of old.

Here are my rankings.

QB - inferior
RB - inferior
OL - inferior
DL - equal to
LB - equal to
CB - equal to
S - inferior
WR - superior

These rankings are comparing the current Griz players, by position, to an "average" group of position players from any Griz team of that era. I realize that there will be years in the past in which we might have been stronger, or weaker, at any given position. However, this is just an attempt to look at this from 40,000 feet, and to generalize about the current state of our position players, and whether we have the talent necessary to return to elite status.

I agree with most of your positional analysis but with some caveats. The QB position COULD surprise this season with Gus. Pflug could be
a JJ type talent. I understand it's wishful thinking at this point.

The Safety position has been a challenge since the days of the players you mentioned. But things COULD change with this group if Whitted can some how get healthy. Manu is a hopeful prospect that could develop quickly.

I am not as comfortable with the CBs as you are. JR looked horrible on some plays against Eastern last year. Maybe the WSU transfer comes in an takes control.

The entire DB core will benefit from Adams leaving the conference. Eastern has "smoked" the Griz secondary for the last four years.......[/quote
Your post is so uninformative,,, how can you judge this team, when they haven't played a down yet and if you saw any of the spring ball, then you would know the Def. will be okay and so will the offense,,, I don't like to name players, but Ryan McKinley, John Nuyen, and Ellis Henderson all showed they are ready to lead, with Whitted, Harris, and Van Ackerman providing leadership, they should be fine!!!!
 
Your post is so uninformative,,, how can you judge this team, when they haven't played a down yet and if you saw any of the spring ball, then you would know the Def. will be okay and so will the offense,,, I don't like to name players, but Ryan McKinley, John Nuyen, and Ellis Henderson all showed they are ready to lead, with Whitted, Harris, and Van Ackerman providing leadership, they should be fine!!!!
 
So far this discussion is about potential based on what appears to be athletic talent alone. It leaves out another factor that includes heart, drive, determination, pride just to name a few. Do the names Dickenson, Mariani, Anderson, Bierman and more mean anything to you?
Until this teams laces them up and hits the field we will not have any indication of just how good these players and positions really are.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Montana%20Grizzlies%20Tunnel%20Run%20Pride&qs=n&form=QBVR&pq=montana%20grizzlies%20tunnel%20run%20pride&sc=0-23&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&mid=C0B478C4073E583D3F39C0B478C4073E583D3F39
 
Sam A. Blitz said:
Not trying to be a dick. Actually think this is a well operated forum and I enjoy reading some information and thoughts from folks who try to have discussions instead of trying to stroke their ego. I have a problem when self-proclaimed experts (who probably haven't sniffed a down of organized football) put the diss on players and act like their word is fact. Fact is, even folks who do have experience playing or coaching the game cannot make any reasonable assessment of how this team is going to perform next year. If you think you can and if you think you are able to make claims of accurate assessment on players talents at this point of the year, you are only proving that you can't be taken seriously...

These are OPINIONS. Nobody on here is trying to say they are facts. Isn't that what sports message boards are for, arguing about opinions from posters? :roll:
 
Atlanta Griz1 said:
Sam A. Blitz said:
Not trying to be a dick. Actually think this is a well operated forum and I enjoy reading some information and thoughts from folks who try to have discussions instead of trying to stroke their ego. I have a problem when self-proclaimed experts (who probably haven't sniffed a down of organized football) put the diss on players and act like their word is fact. Fact is, even folks who do have experience playing or coaching the game cannot make any reasonable assessment of how this team is going to perform next year. If you think you can and if you think you are able to make claims of accurate assessment on players talents at this point of the year, you are only proving that you can't be taken seriously...

These are OPINIONS. Nobody on here is trying to say they are facts. Isn't that what sports message boards are for, arguing about opinions from posters? :roll:

Yet, when someone's opinion differs from your own you mock them.

Classic.
 
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